Message board »Message Board home »Sign-in or register to get started
Online now: 2 members: Runningolf56, TABLE SETTER 11; 113 anonymousDiscussion: Is it fair?
| Posted | Discussion |
| Oct. 6, 2017 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | Is it fair? If we have divisions to promote good competition and fairness, Why would you allow a loaded team of plus players into a lower division? This is not a attack on Thunderstruck but it's a reality that has happened to the major division.Hypothetically, My north call warriors Major plus 50 team can bump up to 55s next year and take 6 of our best players, and then take 6 of JUs 55s best players and then pick of three jk inc 50s major plus players and drop into the 50 major division to win a ring. This is what is allowed under current rules... . Does this seem like fair play? I have played in both major plus 50s and 55s and the top players in 55s are still top players in 50s plus ball FYI I think the 55 and 50 plus division should be the same player index in order to protect the lower divisions from what just happened! I wonder what everyone else thinks.. Seems to me 3 plus pick ups should be the max even if they are from older divisions! |
| Oct. 6, 2017 monam33 17 posts | Good point. Still lots of questions...... |
| Oct. 6, 2017 bond_171513 Men's 55 79 posts | In reality - no, not fair. The hypothetical team you describe would dominate a 50M tournament, but it would be acceptable technically for you guys to do that, and since 55's and 50's are different weekends, you could win two rings! Here is the potential problem I face. My team will most certainly be bumped to 50M+ after last weekend. I am 55 eligible starting in November. The R/I for 50M+ is 9. 55M+ is 8. SSUSA says they only rate teams not individuals, but if I decided to only play 55's, would I be a 9 or an 8. If I am a 9, then they do rate players and I could only play 55M+ since 55M is a 7. I would assume that if I play both, then I would carry the 9 and I am ok with that. FYI - I have e-mailed SSUSA and asked, but have not gotten a response. I'm sure that will come next week when the WMC is officially over. Any thought that for M+ only, the 50's should be one group and not split at 55? Then your thought on the same rating would be correct, which I agree with. |
| Oct. 6, 2017 SSUSA Staff 3483 posts | swing and bond ... That hypothetical team would have to play in a qualifier prior to the Eastern/Western's or World Masters, then it becomes a "ratings" issue and not an "eligibility" issue ... This is the scenario when the MTV/JV 55-M+ team played down in 50-M and finished 2nd to Cornerstone WITHOUT playing in a qualifier ... That was changed by the National Rules Committee and couldn't happen again ... Your theoretical Dream Team in all likelihood would not be playing Major ... |
| Oct. 6, 2017 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | SSUSA Staff and when they play these east or west or world masters and laydown and not bring their entire team. They slip thru the cracks into major and then go 8 and 0 and win the majors without a loss. seems Legit ;-) |
| Oct. 16, 2017 LCF16 3 posts | Does anyone know if Elwood Sports ended up submitted a formal appeal related to Thunderstruck being dropped to 50 Major for the Worlds? Many teams and players I've talked to are wondering how they were able to get reclassified in September after playing 1 Major Plus tourney. |
| Oct. 16, 2017 Cuervo13 33 posts | When does the age difference not make a difference? I'm just asking the question and not passing judgement but Thunderstruck had guys that were 7 - 8 years older playing in the Major division. Are the Thunderstruck players still that Good? at nearing 60 years old that they can still beat young 50 year olds? I'm not saying what they did was right, just asking the question. |
| Oct. 16, 2017 Lee Lee 12 posts | Cuervo13, I think you answered your own question. They went undefeated and everyone on those older guys 55-60 were starters, excuse me maybe one of them didn't start. |
| Oct. 16, 2017 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | Cuerva, I play against those guys all year.... They are that good! I have much respect for everyone on that team. So much respect, that I would never consider those guys Major talent.. They are truly Major plus,even playing almost 2 divisions down! 55 guys don't loose their stroke.. They still mash! yes they loose some on D, but they can intimidate a lower division with how they hit the ball. IMO |
| Oct. 16, 2017 Dbax Men's 65 2100 posts | I say, if a team does it within the current rules, and can beat those younger players, more power to them! Congratulations! |
| Oct. 16, 2017 AJC Men's 60 217 posts | Cuervo, you asked if " they are still that good at there age ". Well i guess the answer is YES since they DID IT. The question really is whether or not it was fair to the rest of the 50 major teams that shelled out the money to fly and attend the tourney. If your not a sponsored team, the 3 day tourney could easily exceed over a thousand for long weekend. I would think that anyone participating in this event would expect and want is a level playing field. The irony of this year's event is that one of the guys who loudly protested the roster of Cornerstone who won it 2 years ago is on the roster of the team that won it this year. With that said , congrats to Thunderstruck! |
| Oct. 17, 2017 Cuervo13 33 posts | I played against the majority of those guys back in the 90's and early 2000's and I know exactly how good they were and probably are today. If a team like Prestige Pools, Layer Cake, Sofa Kings, etc... comes up to 50's and has a legit 50 Major roster hypothetically and loses to a team like Thunderstruck with an average age of probably 57/58 years old. I'd take it as a slap in the face losing to them. You'd think a young 50 team who are decent could handle a borderline 60 team regardless if they are Major +. Maybe I'm delusional, maybe I'm out of touch with the Lighting rods sticks equalizing the game and the Kryptonite balls I use to love playing against the best teams back in the day and if I was still playing I still want to play against the best. Especially if they were a team like that. |
| Oct. 17, 2017 tattooball 774 posts | 50 and 55 should be 1 division just like the 40's. There really isn't much drop in performance at that age level. most 50 teams have many players that are 55 legal. From 60 to 65 you do see a big difference in running and fielding not so much at 50. So merge them both let the teams play and rest the level by performance on the field, some major plus may be major. This would also increase the amount of teams to play each weekend in the 50's. 50 on the east coast is DEAD. I'm 55 eligible and still can play 50 no problem. |
| Oct. 17, 2017 Lee Lee 12 posts | Cuervo13, you are correct the only problem is the good 40 teams are composed of players from 39-49 years old and the complete team doesn't age up to 50's at same time. So the older guys either hang on for a few years or leave to go play 50 MAJOR PLUS or 50 Major. That is what made Thunderstruck so good older guys were the hitters and the younger guys were the defense (mostly). Don't get me wrong the younger guys can hit also, they played a 5 man with younger 50 guys playing OF except for George who is 60 but runs very very well. The system has faults in it. |
| Oct. 17, 2017 STL0 Men's 60 230 posts | As to the question of is it far, the answer is yes. The rules allow for a 55 M+ team to play 50M. If those guys are good enough to play 50 and win then good for them. It's not like they went into the tournament hiding any of that. The roster was approved so game on. I think there is definitely a difference between players in their lower 50s versus players in their upper 50s so I don't think combining 50s and 55s makes sense. You just have to give these guys credit for being able to perform well enough to win at the 50 M level. |
| Oct. 17, 2017 monam33 17 posts | Yes, an appeal was sent in. Several discrepancies existed and are cited. We'll see what happens but claims are valid. I agree that age isn't a big deal between 50 and 55. 70% of our roster is eligible to play at the 55 level. |
| Oct. 17, 2017 Lee Lee 12 posts | STL0, yes they did win and that is the way it is and going to be. |
| Oct. 17, 2017 the car 83 posts | going to get worse their will only be major and major plus their is only major and major plus in the 40s coming up they need to take the top 20 and move them all up and make a division for teams that get air fair and rooms and cars rented for them and food paid for in their own division |
| Oct. 18, 2017 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | Back when I was 58 (7 years ago) and still pretty strong, I felt that they should eliminate one age group by going to a 50-58 age group, and a 59-65 age group. I put that idea out but it never gained much traction. But tattooball hit the nail on the head and I feel even stronger that this might be a viable idea. There really is not much drop off in ability from 50 to 55 for most, but as I get older I see the drop off accelerating. The elimination of the 55 yr old age group would be positive in many ways. One less age group makes larger bracket sizes for all-and we all like more teams to play, especially M+. Everybody talking about this above is in the 50-55 age bracket-and you don't seem to see the same problem in the older age groups. I was not mentally ready to 'age up' when I was 58 because I knew I could still compete with the 50's, but I sure am ready now at 65. I think I will also start a thread for this discussion only so as not to hijack this one. Mark Weber Webbie 65 M+ |
