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Discussion: The Rock.

Posted Discussion
Oct. 6, 2017
local
162 posts
The Rock.
Our league in AZ is considering the use of the Rock softball. I know there are pros and cons but I would like to know why SSUSA uses the ball for Worlds. I also wonder how many, if any injuries can be attributed to the use of the ROCK. With over 600 teams (?) playing were there any ?

I want to be able to present this information to our association.

Thanks

P.S I know the SSUSA staff has lot of spare time to respond to this questions.
Oct. 6, 2017
softball4b
Men's 65
1099 posts
Check with:

http://www.socalssa.com/

Marv Ruddell
951 526-2342
cel 951 795-1935

westway@outlook.com
wwm1@adelphia.net

Been using in tourneys for 2 years
Oct. 6, 2017
CAT
188 posts
I have been fighting the "higher ups" in our league to remove the Dudley Thunder Stadium ball .47 core 450#s compression which I think is similar to the Rock. There have been injuries to mostly the pitchers but they are too vain to mention. I would say that the pitcher position, in general, is probably the oldest age group that participates on a team. To me, it has changed the entire game of softball, especially the defense. I have noticed that the infielders (and sometimes the OFs) give up their basic fundamentals of fielding and start side stepping the ball "alley ooping!" I also noticed in our league that you are now hitting more extra base hits as the ball scoots through the OFs very quickly. However, the ego of the "Wannabees" get a thrill when they can now hit a 365' HR. !! I have spoken to tournament umpires where they are getting hit, as well, while umpiring the bases. I feel that the older we get, we are Blessed to be able to play the game that we have loved our entire life. Why take the chance of shortening that time with these balls. The true HR hitters will still hit their HRs only not as far. The only exception (and that would be slight) is if you have perfect lighting and field conditions; and I have yet to see that after the first game play and/ or screens and mandatory masks. Hope this helps!

Oct. 6, 2017
big cat7
Men's 50
123 posts
Our league went to the rock ball this year after using the baden fire ball for a few years.We all loved the rock,the baden fire ball has gotten very bad.I cant think of any injuries that i saw or heard of because of the rock.Also the rock is 44/375.
Oct. 6, 2017
SSUSA Staff
2727 posts
local ... In response to your three questions ...

1. Use of "The Rock" ball is a contractual obligation that was negotiated by LVSSA in the merger with them six years ago ... "The Rock" is the only official ball for the World Masters and Southwest Championships, both held in Las Vegas annually;
2. No known injuries attributed to the use of "The Rock" ball; and
3. No known/reported injuries to date in the 2017 WMC ...

Oct. 6, 2017
CAT
188 posts
I apologize as I thought the Rock was the same as the Dudley Stadium ball .47 core 450 compression. We do not use the Rock in our locale. However, I did hear from some of the umpires in your area about the speed of the Rock coming off the bat.......good luck...
Oct. 6, 2017
stick8
1718 posts
CAT, all fair points you make. But instead of "alley ooping" I believe you meant to say "ol-eying"
Oct. 6, 2017
Dbax
Men's 60
1811 posts
It should be noted that the league considering the Rock has players ranging from 50 years old to 70+.
Oct. 6, 2017
mad dog
Men's 65
4172 posts
big cat the rock is a fake 44 ball....it was made to pass the compression test for the 44 ball...the comp is more like 450-500 psi underneath that soft exterior......was told this by someone who help build it......but hey our old ego's don't care.......
Oct. 7, 2017
curveball
Men's 65
644 posts
Dbax, our Vegas league has the same age spread, 50 to oldest @ 77. I don't recall any injuries attributed to the Rock. Like most leagues, bad hops, blinding sun, etc were more likely the culprit.
Oct. 9, 2017
Jon44
Men's 55
116 posts
The rock is by far the hottest ball as people have mentioned. Ball comes off the bat faster and guys can hit it easily 10-15 feet further. I personally feel the potential for injury is higher because of this, but I love hitting that ball so I will never complain when I see a tourney use them (especially the local SoCal Tourneys as mentioned above). The normal stote ball gets so mushy in hot weather it's like hitting a marshmallow during the dog days of summer. Local players call the Rock the "Viagra" ball because it enhances performance. If you want to feel like a major league player, hit a bag of rocks during BP.
Oct. 9, 2017
PoollShark
Men's 50
87 posts
The "Rock" is ridiculously hot and should be outlawed. Plain and simple, if you feel different your ego is probably interfering with your judgement.
Oct. 9, 2017
JCColorado
8 posts
The Rock holds up better in the extreme cold and heat we get in Colorado. We get a more consistent travel off the bat. The other balls we have used seem not to do well in the cold or the +100 degree days. We have a few artificial turfs we play on that can build up the heat in the summer. I am sure it is also an ego thing.
Oct. 10, 2017
OZ40
421 posts
Our drop-in softball games have players from 55 to 90, we use the "rock" and a pitching screen. Sure you get bad hops, that happens anywhere and with any ball. The "rock" is a great performer but I don't se it as head and shoulders above some of the other brands at all.
Oct. 10, 2017
stever
Men's 65
84 posts
You know what they say about opinions. Use of the rock has been bantered around this forum many times. Many people have been vocal about it being more dangerous than other balls, but none of them have been able to give any statistics to back up their assertions. I like the rock because it is a much more consistent performer in all weather conditions than any other ball I know of. It has nothing to do with "ego" as many of the naysayers will say when trying to disparage the rock. Until someone comes up with statistics that prove the rock is more dangerous than other balls I take their protestations with a grain of salt.
Oct. 10, 2017
JamesLG
376 posts

If you have a choice the very last ball I would pick is the Trump Stote and the first would be the Rock. The Stote has been going down hill the last 3-4 years so it should be eliminated in all play.

Thanks:

James
Oct. 10, 2017
missouridave
Men's 60
160 posts
Our over 60 league went to the Rock in 2016. We got tired of hitting the socks called the Trump Stote. With the high heat and humidity in the Midwest the Stote does not perform well. We have some "real" seniors (over 70) in our league so we do use a net for the pitcher and it is mandatory. No injuries specifically attributed to the Rock. Guys do get bad hops but the same thing happens with any ball.
Missouri Dave
Oct. 10, 2017
Jon44
Men's 55
116 posts
Are we contractually obligated to use the Stote for all tourneys outside of Vegas? It's been mentioned time and time again that in high heat and humidity that ball is a bowl of oatmeal. It absolutely does not hold up in the heat. I am not advocating for the rock or any other ball, but am I the only one who sees that the stote ball is no fun to hit when it's really hot? Is it something that is evaluated often? There are other balls (Baden fire, Dudley, many others). Does SSUSA look at them? I am sure there is a great answer- apologize if I previously missed it.
Oct. 10, 2017
SSUSA Staff
2727 posts
Jon44 ...

1. [Is SSUSA] Are we contractually obligated to use the Stote for all tourneys outside of Vegas? YES
2. Is it something that is evaluated often? Periodically, toward the end of each ball contract term
3. There are other balls...Does SSUSA look at them? YES

Oct. 10, 2017
JamesLG
376 posts

If SSUSA is contracted to use the Stote then why don't they ask the manufacturer to make a small change to the ball so it is better in the heat? This ball has went down hill the last few years. All you have to do is grab a Trump Stote that was produced 5-7 years ago to the ball that is produced today.
Thanks:
James
Oct. 11, 2017
lb16
Men's 50
151 posts
Attn: SSUSA Staff, So when is the contract with for use for the stote end?
Oct. 11, 2017
the car
83 posts
i like the Rock but we play SSUSA everywhere with the stote ball till Vegas worlds i believe we should be able to hit the stote in worlds by a choice.
Oct. 12, 2017
Bobby Buggs
82 posts
James I work closely with Trump on many different versions the ball. Its not quite as easy to make a slight change as one might think. The problem is Polyurethane core materials are very sensitive to heat. The Rock is truly the best ball when temps are above 80. I have played with that ball design for many years and have not seen it cause more injuries than any other ball. Trust me you dont want to see the senior game go to a ball like the ASA 52-300. I cant imagine how many complaints and pissed off people there would be. You guys should be happy we get to hit a ball as good as the Rock.
Oct. 13, 2017
JDub
Men's 55
197 posts
Funny how Discussions Evolve. Everyone knows that Today's Bats are Hotter than ever, and get even Hotter with use! We also know the way to Control Hot Bats is the Ball. Point is, Now is the Time for my Moniker to Evolve:

I May Be Deaf & Blind, But I Ain't Deaf & Blind.
STOOOPID BATS & BALLS ARE HERE TO STAY ! ! !


Have Fun Be Safe,
Jeff White
AZ Elite 55M+
Oct. 13, 2017
Bobby Buggs
82 posts
Jeff, Hotter than the 2003 Ultra 1 and then Ultra 2?? No and if anything the ball today is not as hot as it was back then. Stop the whining already and be happy we are able to use good equipment.
Oct. 13, 2017
JDub
Men's 55
197 posts
Buggs,

Not sure where you determined any Whining by me!? You're an Evil Engineer, so l figure you're a fairly Smart Fella. Do you Pitch? Prolly Not, cuz again, you're prolly a fairly Smart Fella!?

If you did know me, you may have heard I was "That Pitcher" nearly Killed by the Original Gray Ultra back in 2002. That Bat was Banned the following week! Apparently, I'm Not Very Smart cuz I'm Still Pitching! I am Deaf & Blind and have been called STOOOPID (and worse)! I also Umpire, so again, STOOOPID ! ! !

My Perspective is Different from most, based solely from my own Personal Experiences on the Field! I Played/Pitched at the Major Level, so maybe my Experience carries a little bit of weight!? I too have Years of Engineering Experience ! ! !

Have Fun, Be Safe,
Jeff White
AZ Elite 55M+

PS: I Swing STOOOPID Senior Bats as well . . .
Oct. 13, 2017
Bobby Buggs
82 posts
This is the internet and a message board, Nothing said here carries any weight. Lol Keep playing
Oct. 14, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2599 posts
Biggest understatement since Noah said "..Gee, it looks like it might rain.." ► "..This is the internet and a message board, Nothing said here carries any weight.." ... Hilarious!
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