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Online now: 2 members: Baseball33, G-Man27; 93 anonymousDiscussion: The "ROCK SOFTBALL"
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| Nov. 14, 2017 garyheifner 649 posts | The "ROCK SOFTBALL" I was surprised to to see the Rock show up in the Winter Nationals in Ft. Meyers. The TD said they wanted to see how it performed in the Florida humidity. We had an 8:00 AM game the 1st 2 days and the field was wet with morning dew. The ball had to be wiped off repeatedly. As the innings passed, the field dried up. I was surprised to see the ball had as much pop as in the beginning of the game. It seemed the water did not alter the ball's performance. In fact, the ball we used in the 1st game was used as our back up ball the rest of the tournament and still had pop when inserted in the game. . To sum up, I would like to see this ball used more often in ring tournaments. |
| Nov. 14, 2017 Dbax Men's 65 2100 posts | Used today in Winter Worlds too. Crazy! |
| Nov. 15, 2017 k man Men's 65 326 posts | Went to the garage to see which ball we hit last week in Naples. And it was the Rock. That ball has much pop, I've never hit a ball as hard or as far as I did. |
| Nov. 16, 2017 17Black Men's 60 414 posts | So is SSUSA going to this ball (Rock) for all 2018 Tourneys or was this an experiment? I ask because the two tourneys mentioned are the first for 2018 so maybe it stays consistent??? |
| Nov. 16, 2017 SSUSA Staff 3483 posts | 17Black ... It was neither ... The annual "boatload" of the ball we will be using this Season has not hit the port of entry yet for BSN/Anaconda ... The Winter National's/World's events used "The Rock" solely because it was available while the other ball of choice was not ... The Director quote mentioned above is inaccurate, not necessarily because he didn't say it, but if he did, he would be incorrect ... That was not a "humidity check" ... |
| Nov. 17, 2017 NYGNYY 215 posts | I hope that boat never makes it to port for the next 10 years. And I still do not understand why this is not a topic for discussion at the annual meeting. |
| Nov. 17, 2017 SSUSA Staff 3483 posts | NYYNYG ... That's pretty funny, especially with you not knowing what balls are on the boat! ... The bat/ball combination/specification is an Executive Committee decision (read: Terry and Fran) that's not a convention type topic ... It encompasses a broad range of issues, some contractual, some competition based, has varying age group (40+ thru 85+) implications and has an economic component for independent tournament promoters that's separate and apart from solely SSUSA Home Office economics as it relates to tournament entry fees ... That's a complex "Sacramento" decision process ... |
| Nov. 17, 2017 JamesLG 420 posts | I would bet that over 75% of the teams would pay a bit more on entry fee if the Rock was used in every tournament in the country. Hitting a good softball is what nearly every senior player wants to do. If the balls for the 2018 season are already in route what good is it to ever bring this topic up in the upcoming meeting? Thanks: James |
| Nov. 17, 2017 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | I agree the Rock holds up better than the other ball and has more pop too. With the bats that we are using, I would rather not use the Rock. The non Rock ball is flying out of the park enough. I like playing softball, not home run derby. There is no need to have a better ball. The only time I would be ok with using the Rock exclusively, if we went to an unlimited pitching arc. I pitch a lot, and do not care to have the ball come at me any quicker, than it already does. No, I do not want to pay any more for these tournament fees. Just My Humble Opinions, Andy Smith, 65 Major, USED2BE |
| Nov. 17, 2017 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | JamesLG, you might not have been on this message board a few years back where there were serious, credible statements that the Rock was likely mislabeled and therefore hotter than its rating would indicate. But you only have to be on the board for a week to hear praise from certain quarters about the Rock because it flies so fast and so far. That's why many players are not interested in playing regularly with the Rock. Sure it is fun to hit the ball a long way. And some guys, who are constantly searching for the hottest bat to hit the ball the longest distance are all for hitting 350, 375 feet rather than settling for a 325 foot home run with our present hot bats. Why not go to tennis balls if that is the goal. As Duke termed it "home run derby". There are lots and lots of players, including most players over 65, who would rather return to the conditions they grew up with that made the game more nuanced, not just a power game. Games where good infielders were prized, not just the sluggers. Games where strategy played a part in hitting. Games where fast runners were honored, to score or advance, not just go to the dugout after another walk-off homer. There is also a growing number of players of all ages who have safety concerns about the speed that a ball travels through the infield in order to clear a 300 foot fence. Have you noticed that SSUSA mandates masks and shin guards to protect pitchers? Have you noticed third basemen playing 75-80 feet deep to protect themselves? Have you noticed more and more infielders wearing protective face masks? I know several former pitchers who no longer pitch because of safety concerns with the current bats. Most of this opposition comes from those who think hot bats have ruined the game or that they are dangerous. And now some want the hottest ball possible to add to the hottest bats?! I think there is likely a majority of players who see the conditions in Vegas as freakish because of the mandated Trump Rock. Playing there once a year is tolerable, but to regularly hit extra hot balls with super hot bats? Not likely a majority. P.S. This is not a defense of the Trump Stote which deteriorates in hot conditions. But I would rather play with the Stote than the Rock for enjoyable games and tournaments. |
| Nov. 17, 2017 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | Read between the lines....Rock is and always be a Las Vegas ball, until the contract with the LVSSA expires. IMO if there were Stote balls in the warehouse and on the "boat" there would have been a declarative statement to that point and used in the cool weather tournaments. Therefore there is a reasonable assumption that when the boat clears customs something other than the stote will be used outside of LV. |
| Nov. 18, 2017 17Black Men's 60 414 posts | JamesLG:--------Although hitting Rocks (or) a couple other kinds of potential balls would certainly be enticing-------As one of those guys (who happens to be me) who pays for the tournament entry fees, the entry fees are high enough as it is. (In all Senior Associations) This is a whole different topic but as an "average" lets says $450 a tourney (& most tournaments we go to cost way more than that)--------------at $450 divided by say 6 games, its $75 a game, usually with only one ump and no score keeper. Honestly looking back over past two seasons, realistic its about ($91) bucks a game, per team. So do the math with two teams playing in a game ($182) a game. Teams that don't do well and only play their 4 or 5 game minimum, costs more per game than that too That's adds up big time over the course of a season. |
| Nov. 18, 2017 r4pitch 92 posts | just for safety lets not hit the rock..That is a nightmare in vegas...The other balls are fine. Work on your game and the rock is not needed..Reid miller |
| Nov. 18, 2017 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | Not too sure what "nightmare" you are referring to in Vegas........I play league in Vegas year round and take BP twice a week year round all with the Rock, and have played in every World Masters here since the Rock was implemented and have not seen any safety issue based on a ball. 2 additional side comments: Over 600 teams at the Vegas tournament for 2017 Masters, think they'll do things like change a ball to try and change that number? What would be the result of going to the Trump Stote for that tournament? When balls were issued at the Winter Worlds, I personally heard nothing but positive comments and lots of smiles. |
| Nov. 18, 2017 r4pitch 92 posts | Teams are out of homers in 3 rd inning check swings fly out That is not fun..the other balls are fine ...with these bats no need to ever use a rock...it is like using stadium balls with a shaved bat.....reid miller #4 team usa |
| Nov. 18, 2017 r4pitch 92 posts | to say the rock is not a safety issue is nuts ..... the ball is hit harder/gets on the fielders quicker...just no need with these crazy bats ...just not fun playing on 280 fences at blfd ....those other balls are fine |
| Nov. 18, 2017 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | SSUSA uses the Rock and the ball to be named later. Contracts dictate usage. Your only option regarding Vegas and Rock, is not to go to Vegas. Rock was a baseline requirement for merging of the two organizations. r4pitch, I do not know you, but I expect you are big, strong and good looking or play with people who are. Short fences and good balls usually are not a good mix. I concur that with the addition of the 40 division and the strength of the 50 M and M+, there probably should be a change. The best avenue for a ball change in the age/division you are playing in is through the Rules Committee Meeting. Even then, I expect because of the original merger negotiations this would be a monumental task. |
| Nov. 18, 2017 Mac33 20 posts | I have been trying to start a discussion on this site twice now but it has not posted even though I am logged in. So, I'll try it here, I got hit with the rock in the face this past weekend in Florida. I play third and jumped when someone hit a line drive directly at me. It knuckled and I was lucky enough to have it hit the thumb on my glove hand. It then deflected into my eye and nose. The nose broke and the ball as I said went directly into the eye missing the top of the eye socket but hitting my cheek bone. The pain to the eye was intense and I was completely blind in my left eye when I rolled over. Taken to the trauma center the DR said he wished it had hit the eye socket because it had hit the meat of my eye and exploded my pupil causing severe damage to my sight. One week later I still cannot focus and my pupil will now be permanently large and never close again. The eye socket prevents the eye from taking a direct hit but I was not so lucky. Yes, lucky no broken eye socket but the eye is terrible. First, thank you to those who helped me on the field. I heard games stopped and that there were individual and group prayer sessions for me. Thank you for that. If there is ever anything I can do for anyone, please do not hesitate. Second, I play 60 major ball with Sweet Construction and Promotion softball and I consider myself an above average third basemen. I had been complaining about the field conditions to my teammates, specifically, the amount of sand and loose gravel. I even joked about having your dentist on call because the rock was taking weird bounces when it took a second hop. Probably not the rocks fault or maybe a combination of the two. I have never seen a ball knuckle so much as this ball. This was my fifth game and I saw many a line drive in the IF that was cray. A lot of people mentioned the spin and knuckling. I am not afraid of any ball but this one I was a little skeptical about. The fact that I normally could move back was cut short by where I could stand without having the beach under my feet was troublesome. Anyway, IDK, do we need this ball? I'd play with it again but with a mask on. As a matter of fact, a mask will be on my face from now on. If I can make one guy put a mask on, it will have been worth the pain. Believe me guys, this is not fun. Please consider it. Thanks Bill McNamara Billy Mac |
| Nov. 18, 2017 SOFTBALLNUTZ 36 posts | curveball This just happened to me Thusrsday morning at pregame BP. I was about 50' feet in the outfield grass behind where the short stop would normally be. 70+ year old Nat was hitting with his Louisville Slugger senior bat. The balls being pitched were used Trump Rocks. Some older and some newer. Anyway he hit a hard line drive at me. I saw the ball coming at me like most any other line drives. When the ball was about 15-20 feet from me it started to move left and right and up and down as it was closeing in on me. The ball was jumping all over the place like a knuckle or whiffle ball. It was moving so much I was not able to catch it or get out of the way. I would estamate the ball was jumping 2-5 feet in all directions as it was coming toward me. The ball hit me in left chest below my arm pit. Nat and most of the other guys on the field noticed the ball movement. Right now my chest is still sore from the hit. While this does not happen often, this is not the first time I have noticed unexpected movement from the Rock ball. What I have observed is that the movement mostly occurs on hard hit line drives. Also it seems the movement gets more radical after it clears the infield. The make and model of the bat used makes no difference as I have noticed unusal movement several years ago. Every now and then when I hit the ball it will move. Some observations I have heard and seen is that the ball can sometimes move as much as 8-10 feet. I like the Rock Ball but it can be dangerous when hit just right. Maybe it's just a rare occurance hit on the stitches or something to makes it fly different. |
| Nov. 18, 2017 k man Men's 65 326 posts | Mac, Sorry to hear of your incident in Fl. Nobody wants to see anyone get hurt, no less have it possibly change their quality of life. Prayers to you and yours that you may return to some sort of normalcy and are not in too much discomfort. Regarding the beginning of your thread, I too had tried to start a discussion this a m and it wouldn't post, that is until I had to click specifically on the type of TOPIC it was. Once I did that it posted. |
| Nov. 18, 2017 JamesLG 420 posts | Hi All: It sounds like I was wrong to say 75% would pay to hit the Rock in all tourneys. Looks like I am in the minority on this. The Trump Stote we use now is just not a very good ball. Thanks: James |
| Nov. 18, 2017 Mac33 20 posts | K Man, Thank you for your kind words. I see what you mean now on the TOPIC selection. I'd have to see more of the rock ball to get a real opinion but from what I saw it jumps off the bat. I'm 603 240 and I hit a few shots that I thought to myself, thank god no one got in front of that. I hit a few line drives to the fence that were by the outfielders faster than I have ever seen. I hit one out at 325 and that was a line drive that left in a split second. I saw a lot of really hard hit balls and heard a different crack type sound off most bats that was different. Again, I'm not complaining but I will wear a mask on any ball now especially that one. I am looking into the heart guard now also. |
| Nov. 18, 2017 Dbax Men's 65 2100 posts | Have to agree with r4pitch. Well said. |
| Nov. 20, 2017 BruceAZ Men's 70 155 posts | The Rock does fly further and gets there faster as anyone who plays in Vegas a couple of times a year will attest to. More Home Runs were being hit in Phoenix this past weekend as even Dave (Dbax) hit one out and that's a rare occurrence. Congrats on winning 60M Dave. Bruce |
| Nov. 20, 2017 Dbax Men's 65 2100 posts | Lol! Thanks Bruce. Thea Rock changes the game. Makes just about everyone in the lineup capable of hitting it out. Ridiculous. |
| Nov. 20, 2017 Fabe Men's 65 456 posts | Homeruns do not concern me....I believe SSUSA has done a good job with limits on them. I have witness many HR (solo) that in the end hurt the team! More concern with statistics on injuries using the Rock vs using other balls. Stay healthy n safe my Braddahs! Aloha, Fabe |
| Nov. 21, 2017 SOFTBALLNUTZ 36 posts | When the Rock Softball is hit on a hard line drive. The soft, spongy cover of the ball seems to warp, slightly changing the shape of the ball. This warpping may not be much but is just enough for the flight of the ball to become erratic or unstable. This is like MLB pitchers cutting the ball with their belt buckle or other sharp object changing flight characterisitcs. |
| Nov. 21, 2017 papa t Men's 60 22 posts | Billy Mac...hope you heal 100%! Here's my 2 cents. I almost got hit as a runner at 3rd. One of my big guys tried to sneak one between me and the 3rd baseman(Marquize don't ever do that again please!!) Not sure how I was able to get out of the way...but somehow dodged a big bullet to the head. I'm actually shocked that more guys don't get hurt. Maybe just a testament to good players! We play in the 50's and it's crazy how hard and fast those balls come off the bats. I did notice tho as an outfielder that those balls don't travel as fast when we throw them. I don't know if it's the cushy cover or what...but it was weird thinking you had a guy dead on the bag and the ball took a little extra time getting there. Anyways...my 2 cents on the balls...and I will see you guys on the fields. |
