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Discussion: 2018 Rosters

Posted Discussion
Dec. 6, 2017
SKings24
29 posts
2018 Rosters
If a team played in the Winter Worlds in Arizona those players that played and checked in are locked in on that roster regardless how you did in the tournament? Players on said rosters have to asked to be released to go to another team?
Dec. 6, 2017
SSUSA Staff
2394 posts
YES, that's correct ... Releases are limited to one per player per Season in a particular age group and are granted at the sole discretion of the Manager ... SSUSA does not arbitrate, nor compel, a player's release in the event of a dispute ... See Rulebook §4.2(2)D.2.E.ADDING / RELEASING ROSTER PLAYERS on page 23 ...
Dec. 6, 2017
grayhitter59
Men's 55
130 posts
Here we go again SSUSA I thought this was going to be addressed this winter meeting.

I believe if a player wants out of a team, it should not be up to the manager to release him, as long as he has returned any and all equipment that was given to him by said team the player should be allow to move on to another team once in a calendar year.

What reason would anyone want to keep a player who does not want to play for them on their roaster, except for them wanting to hurt that player.

That is not sportsman like. SSUSA should address this issue with the player in mind. It's the players who are SSUSA not the managers.

As far as not being release by a manager that is petty and another word that I will not use on this board that also starts with P.

MY 2 cents.
Dec. 6, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 65
1643 posts
grayhitter59 ... Your assumption was incorrect ... As the Recording Secretary of the SSUSA National Rules Committee, I saw every item of written correspondence, via email or snail-mail, SSUSA received in the past year with suggestions for consideration by the Committee at last week's convention sessions ... This topic was not among them ... All 40± properly submitted items we received were forwarded to the Committee Chair for her inclusion on the list of potential formal Agenda items, and all were discussed in the Committee sessions ... About half made it onto the Agenda, and the other half (see Exhibit "A" of the Minutes) failed to make it due to a lack of a motion and second for formal consideration ...

If the issue is still of interest to you as a proposed 2019 rules amendment next year at the convention, please submit identifiable written correspondence on topic to SSUSA by regular mail or email sometime in the next eleven months ... Our mailing address is "SSUSA Rules Committee - 9823 Old Winery Place, Suite 12 - Sacramento, CA 95827-1720 ... You may also submit by email to info@seniorsoftball.com with "Rules Committee" in the subject line ... As a reminder, due to its generally anonymous and unregulated nature, Message Board commentary is specifically excluded from consideration for Rules Committee agenda inclusion ... We do appreciate your unofficial 2˘ worth, but please consider spending another 44˘ on a stamp and get your thoughts into the Rules Committee Agenda system ... Or send us a FREE email ... Either way works ... Thanks!

Dec. 6, 2017
TimMcElroy
190 posts
grayhitter59,


Your scenario has merit, but let me throw another one out to you-

14 guys get together in November and decide to form "TEAM A" for the coming season.

"TEAM A" plays together in Jan, Feb and March but, for whatever reason, aren't able to participate in the April tournament. Sammy Superstar (Team A's shortstop) quietly decides that he is going to play with another team that weekend since "TEAM A" is taking the month off.


Spin forward a month.... The manager for "TEAM A" pays the entry fee and submits his roster for the May tournament, only then finding out that Sammy Superstar is no longer on his roster and is locked in elsewhere- "TEAM A" is now struggling to field a team in May, and potentially for the rest of the season.



Under the present set of rules, Sammy Superstar is forced to come clean BEFORE playing elsewhere and the manager of "TEAM A" has advance notice of his impending roster problem.






Dec. 6, 2017
grayhitter59
Men's 55
130 posts
Dear Tim,

Ok, Sammy superstar has screwed a good team but he is stuck playing for team B for the rest of the season on him. Doesn't SSUSA have to clear that player before he can play on another team, therefore SSUSA notifies team A that the no longer have Sammy on roaster.

On another note, please review ruling on bat interference, I think you missed that one in the winter national. No out can be recorder on a bad throw that hits a bat that is not in the playing field or did not interfere with a play being made on a runner. Dead ball runners go back to previous base is the call.
next time. thank you

Happy Holidays to you and yours Tim.

Manny Q # 7 RBC
Dec. 6, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 65
1643 posts
Manny ... As historical background, and to illustrate that this issue isn't something "new", here's a excerpt from the Official Minutes of the 2011 SSUSA National Rules Committee meeting sessions held in St. Pete Beach, FL ... It's very straight forward and remains accurate today ...
____________

PLAYER RELEASES – Annually, the SSUSA office receives correspondence requesting that it become involved to compel a Manager to release a player who no longer desires to play for the former team. As a policy, the SSUSA office does not get involved in these issues and, accordingly, will not compel such a release. A request has been made to the Rules Committee that we consider implementing provisions that would direct the SSUSA office, at a minimum, to arbitrate player release disputes, and when appropriate in its judgment, compel that release. Action: Retain the Player Release provisions as they are currently, to the sole discretion of the Manager. In most cases, there are three sides to each of these player release disputes: [1] the player’s side; [2] the manager’s side; and [3] the truth somewhere in the middle AND not readily determinable by SSUSA staff.
____________

Dec. 6, 2017
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1196 posts
Tim &Gray Hitter, Dave spelled it out... SSUSA doesn't want to get involved in rooster disputes... this means two things... the Manager has the power and Players need to be nice to their managers even when parting ways! I always felt if someone didn't want to be with our team, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! Have a great 2018 everyone!
Dec. 6, 2017
SKings24
29 posts
This was not meant to get out of hand it wa a simple question based on a player playing with our team and rumors he is with another not by his own admission but the team thinking as such so just wanted clarity
Dec. 6, 2017
Dbax
Men's 60
1677 posts
I think we should leave roosters out of this.
Dec. 7, 2017
grayhitter59
Men's 55
130 posts
Dave,

I read the ruling on players release. With that said, I have been on both sides of this coin. When a player wants to leave, i have the same attitude as "swing for the fences".

But it seems that some managers are like scorned EX wives. So you have to go to court to get anything done. That court is SSUSA staff. I was lucky two years ago and Mr. Hennesy got involved in my issue and resolved the matter. I am sure he had better things to do than deal with a petty issue such as this. That is why I feel that if the player wants out of a team it should be automatic once a season.

Why should any manager have that much control over a player specially when players pay dues to this organization.

At the end of the day it's just a bad marriage, let the divorce go through and be done with it.

My opinion.

Dec. 7, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 65
1643 posts
Manny ... Several of the Staff (Terry, Fran, George and I) become involved in "release discussions" with managers and players each season, exactly as you experienced ... We have a VERY high conflict resolution rate ... It's ultimately in the best interests of the player AND the team that a separation dispute not drag on and that the player be able to play ... However, we view our involvement as "mediation" and not "binding arbitration", so the decision is ultimately by the player and the manager, not us ... That role precludes us making a mistake if we were to unilaterally decide which of the three sides of the story is accurate! ... Facilitating communication it's almost always a good thing ...

Dec. 7, 2017
HAT MAN
Men's 40
172 posts
Dave,
Question in regards to the committee review. What makes an item get a vote?

If i submit a letter requesting a keg at 2nd base and no one on committee supports it then it dies right there i get. What if 20 players submit the same thing?

I guess more so, does it matter how many requests for a rule review/change by players that equals a guaranteed vote or do all player requests need a 2nd nomination.


I dont have anything to suggest just trying to understand the meeting process.
Dec. 7, 2017
SSUSA Staff
2394 posts
Vinny ... It's "Robert's Rules of Order" for meeting administration of the SSUSA National Rules Committee sessions ... Here's how it unfolds annually ...

• Correspondence received (email and snail-mail ONLY, Message Board commentary is specifically excluded) from the end of the current year sessions until about three weeks before the upcoming sessions is accumulated and forwarded to the Committee Chair ... There were 40± such items presented for consideration this year ...
• Before the convention, the Committee Chair prepares a lengthy package that contains a synopsis of the topic of each item received, including relevant quotes from the correspondence and a one-sentence summary of what the proponent would like to have enacted ... If multiple substantially identical items are received, the Chair lists all who sent them and reports it out as a single item (e.g., this year, the "1-1" count had 10 separate options for consideration) ...
• The first Rules Committee session is the "Open Session", where non-committee public attendees have full rights of participation ... During this open session, the Chair's issues document is reviewed, one item at a time, for open informal discussion, clarification, etc. ... After all items have been covered, the list is expanded to add any other issues to consider, presented by both the public attendees and the committee membership during the open session ... This process generally takes several hours ...
• The second session is the initial "Working Session", where items are more formally considered ... The Chair normally allows continuing public participation in the discussions after committee members, but limits voting to the 13-member committee only ...
• Then it's back to the list, one item at a time ... The Chair asks if there is a motion to formally consider the item and, if so, is there a second to that motion ... If YES to both a motion and a second, the item as added to the final Agenda and formal consideration begins immediately (if NO to either a motion or a second, the item is added to the Exhibit "A" list) ...
• Discussion continues until there is nothing more to be heard or a call for a vote is made ... The Chair does not vote unless required to break a tie, which happened once this year ... In one other instance, the "1-1" count, the motion was tabled and SSUSA Staff was instructed to prepare a "Member Preference Survey" for the purpose of gathering relevant additional data prior to any formal action ... That email survey will "drop" within a couple of days and the Committee is scheduled to reconvene in a telephone conference call format on January 9th ...
• After all items have been considered, formally or by placement on Exhibit "A", the session adjourns and the Recording Secretary prepares the formal minutes for Committee Review ... Once reviewed and approved, the Committee nominates and elects the Chair for the following year and the Rules Committee officially adjourns ...

This was the long way to get to your fundamental question, but here goes ... The number of formal submissions for consideration is important, but there is no set formula ... More often than not, if there are multiple requests, it's highly likely that a motion and a second will happen ... The committee has a long history of "..if in doubt, let's hear this one just to be sure it's appropriately considered.." ...

The next formal Rules Committee meetings will be at the 2018 convention in Las Vegas, NV, during the week after Thanksgiving ... This year was "East" and next year is "West" for location ... We encourage and welcome public attendance and participation ...

Hope this helps!

Dec. 7, 2017
AJC
Men's 60
88 posts
Id prefer the keg placed at home instead of 2nd, id worry about half our guys turning triples into doubles.
Dec. 7, 2017
HAT MAN
Men's 40
172 posts
Thanks Dave more then enough info. Was just curious on how it all worked.

AJC

I played this back home in Jersey. At 23 I was playing with a bunch of Troopers in their 30s and 40s/50s. 9 innings no run rule. must drink a 7oz cup of beer at 2nd before going to 3rd. 3rd inning and we are getting killed by a bunch of young friends and im pissed. Relax bag a donuts they tell me just wait.........sure enough the other team quit in the 8th inning couldn't stand up or even throw a pitch....CLASSIC GAME
Dec. 7, 2017
AJC
Men's 60
88 posts
Hat Man, sounds like good times for sure.

We played a variation of that a few times with a keg at 2nd in Menlo Park in my early 20's. Our game was very informal tho as it was just a bunch of friends playing. It was more like 12 on 12 with the girl friends there, music and bbq after. Had to drink 6 oz while at 2nd. Never got hassled there, i dont think we could get away with that today.......good times.
Dec. 8, 2017
bond_171513
Men's 50
49 posts
Hmmm.. Keg at 2nd? Sounds like a good way to get more teams to play 5-man
Dec. 10, 2017
OZ40
217 posts
YOU MAKE THE CALL: If a batted ball strikes the keg after passing the pitcher (who makes no attempt to play it) is it a live or dead ball?
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