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Discussion: What Became of 30+ Ounce Bats?

Posted Discussion
Jan. 24, 2018
Bubble Gum
122 posts
What Became of 30+ Ounce Bats?

Just curious...

Why are bats weighing more than 30 ounces no longer available? The last 32 ounce bat I can remember was made of aluminum. I personally never was a big fan of bats over 30 ounces even in my younger days. The 30+ ounce bats seem to have vanished when composite bats got popular. Other than being heavy, is there any other reason these bats became dinosaurs?









Jan. 24, 2018
PoollShark
Men's 50
88 posts
Bat speed. When I first started playing in the 80's there were multiple 38 oz bats in the dugout. I loved them, now I swing a 27 and I love it, go figure. Advances in knowledge have suggested that lighter bats = faster bat speed = more distance. I'm sure someone here will provide the scientific formula that proves the theory at any moment now. Lol.
Jan. 24, 2018
chico senior
Men's 60
125 posts
Funny story. I started playing senior softball in 2000. I brought out my 38 oz Bomb bat and after my first at bat the guy on deck picked it up and thought it was the weighted warm up bat. Had to go out and buy a new 30 oz Demarini the next day. Now I swing a 26 oz Dudley and might move down to a 25oz Adidas. Think how things has improved since then.
Jan. 24, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1331 posts
I agree with PoollShark, but to me it was because Ray DeMarini came up with the theory of bat speed. He was correct, and his bats revolutionized softball. At least that is the way that I remember it.
Jan. 24, 2018
OZ40
532 posts
I'm sure the engineering geeks will come out on this one but here goes: I was told by some of the recognized bombers in the game that all things equal if you can keep your controlled swing and the same bat speed with say a 28oz bat that you have with a 26oz bat you should use the heavier bat for more power and distance. I guess the principle is if a mini van and a Kenworth both hit a Volkswagen the Semi would propel it farther and faster.

Of course at our age I'm sure fatigue comes into the equation. Some guys even start a long day with a 28 and end up with a 26 at the end of the day.
Jan. 24, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1331 posts
...but we have senior bats. We win. I just regret that Ray DeMarini never got to play senior softball. Maybe he is playing it in Heaven. Anyone else ever watch his show besides us?
Jan. 24, 2018
cyborg45
Men's 75
189 posts
The real reason why todays bats weigh a max of 30oz is anything heavier won't pass the BPF compression test, according to DeMarini sports in a post a number of years ago. I would assume that situation still exists with the composites of today.
Jan. 25, 2018
Az Iz
65 posts
cyborg45...How does the weight of the bat effect the BPF compression test?
Jan. 25, 2018
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
Im inclined to side with Nancy.
Ray Demarini was the one to put the wheels in motion for high performance bats.
The science already existed, but baby boomers were putting their disposable cash into games like golf and tennis. I guess Major League Baseball had the financial resources to advance the technology, but I believe their interests were more aligned by maintaining the status quo. Juiced balls and bats were something to be outlawed.
The advent of carbon composites and exotic allows like titanium have made bats too good. All of the softball associations have become a bit like MLB in their attempts to regulate bat performance to some consistent standard. In the case of SSUSA, the acceptance standard is set at BPF=1.21
One of the criteria for the BPF test is to fire a softball against a stationary bat at 110 mph in order to measure the rebound speed of the ball. The speed was selected to simulate bat/ball collision speeds demonstrated by professional players. Since collision speed is a constant for this test, the ball rebound speed always increases as the mass and rotational inertia of the bat increases.
To cyborgs point ( and the original question): real life measurements of professional softball players recorded an increase in batted ball speed with the use of heavier or more endloaded bats. Current BPF standards also indicate a similar trend. The physical attributes of these players were never specified, but its safe to assume they weighed over 250 lbs and had bat speed approaching 100 mph. Regardless, eventually performance tends to level off and decline as batspeed is reduced due to the increased inertia of heavier bats. Depending on the amount of endload, peak performance for the field results of this particular test occurred while using bats comparable to our 28-30 oz flavors.
In the case of old geezers like myself, your mileage may vary.
Jan. 25, 2018
mad dog
Men's 65
4174 posts
hey everyone....its not how fast you can swing....its the speed you have after ball contact is what you should be looking for....yes demarini did a video showing this.....he could dry swing all bats from 26-29 oz almost the same bat speed (95 mph)....but when he hit a ball....they all lost quite a bit of speed after contact.....the 26 oz had the best after contact speed so he said that would be the best to use for him.......he did also say that most big guys could use the heavier bats b/c of their strength......and not have to worry about the after contact speed....he said to look for the highest after ball contact speed you can get for the bat weight...and use that bat weight.....i have the video he did....
Jan. 25, 2018
curveball
Men's 65
666 posts
Nancy, Ray did get to play a little in the Senior circuit. I played on a Monday night senior league with him, and he did play a few tourneys with s team out of the NW. He was quite a character, and developed into a very good hitter.
Jan. 25, 2018
Fred S
Men's 85
297 posts
It was what cyborg45 said. That was my understanding back when I had PST's. They stopped making the 30's when they came out with the PST98 and 98Z but still made 30oz in the Utrip bats. If you notice there are still 30 oz bats for Utrip
All technical talk aside the only think I know over the years I have always outdistance my 27-28's with my 30's. That is the only thing I need to know.
Jan. 25, 2018
Turbo 34
Men's 50
40 posts
When bats weighed 38 ounces the aluminum wasn't as strong as CU31 or C405 that came out in the 1990s. Those bats had thicker walls and heavy knobs making them more balanced. When CU31 came out wall thickness was much thinner and a 35 ounce bat was more unloaded than the old 38s. When C405 aluminum hit the market the heaviest of bats were just 32 ounces. The bat shells were much lighter being just 21- 24 ounces with the rest being end load. No telling how light these senior composite shells are before weight is added.
Jan. 25, 2018
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
Which brings up a good point.
I believe cyborg is essentially correct. They would potentially need to tune down the performance of many of the heavier bats to pass BPF.

Bat manufacturers have been required to adhere to current BPF standard for over a decade. Yet reaching and exceeding bpf=1.2 has been possible since the days of the OG Ultra.
Since everyone is stuck at 1.21 , what performance benefits are we really buying with the new bats?
Jan. 25, 2018
SOFTBALLNUTZ
30 posts

fennellwg, so if I understand you correctly. If I were to buy a 30 ounce senior bat and put 1 or 2 knob cuffs on it, making the total bat weight about 31 ounces. This will make that bats BPF exceed 1.21?

Jan. 25, 2018
SMOKE707
10 posts
The TPS OUTLAW is labeled exceeds 1.2 BPF and came out before the Ultra
Jan. 25, 2018
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
To SOFTBALLNUTZ:
Lots of ifs in your question,
But if you bought a 30 oz bat that was tested to have bpf = 1.21,
I believe that adding weight to the handle could allow it to test at a lower value..

Either way, its not likely that anyone would experience performance benefits by adding knob cuffs to a 30 oz bat
Jan. 26, 2018
msw4indy
9 posts
New to the site and 2 years from playing 50s:) I remember the video from Ray Demarini and we had mentioned swing the heaviest bat you can maintain your bat speed after contact. He said Larry Carter barely lost any when swinging a 29oz bat where he lost a lot. I've always swung 28-30oz bats since the composite bats came out. I tend to stick to balanced bats but even I have dropped to 27-27.5 as I've gotten older. From the things I've been told most manufacturers stopped making 30oz bats due to demand. You'd see the heavy ones dirt cheap and hard to sell. Been hanging around the message board for a while and play in a Sr league here in Indy (wish there were some 40 or 45 tournies close)but excited to get to play Sr tournament ball in a couple of years. 2 more years with the kids;)
Jan. 26, 2018
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
In a rare display of self-control Im not gonna take the bait and totally sidetrack this thread
But I do have a lot of issues with the Ray Demarini comments in the Infamous batspeed video. Its had me scratching my head for a long time.
if anyone wants to start a new thread or talk about this off-line, Im interested.
fennellwgATverizon.net
Jan. 26, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1331 posts
cyborg45, that is interesting. I attended a lot of meetings on compression, BPF, and the trampoline effect of the "new" bats. I truly had never heard what you are describing, but I will definitely be looking for some more information. Of course I was dealing with some good old boys meetings of associations that did not have their ducks in row like SSUSA does. They often wondered why a girl had any interest in this.

curveball, that makes my day. I did not know Ray personally but felt like I knew him because of his show. Too bad he was probably too early for the senior bat technology of today. One thing that I found interesting is that he had a segment on batting warmups. I don't remember all of the details, but he said that using a heavy warm up bat was not the right way to train the muscles, and that using a Wiffle ball bat was the best way to get those muscles ready for batting. I actually had an aluminum (another story for another day) Wiffle ball bat that we kept in Coachie's bag.

I still remember the day that someone brought the DeMarini bat into Metro. Of course Coachie had to have it, and I probably still have it in his collection. It was before the one that we have seen so many of back in the day.

I remember that way back then that I struggled to even find a 29 ounce bat. I am a little gal, and even a 30 was just so hard for me to get around. When I found my 29 Tennessee Thumper, I was ecstatic. As the bat weights dropped, I had a lot more choice. My favorite was my 25.5 EST, but I am happy with a 26 because that EST does not have a lot of durability, and I am sure that if a man hit with it that it would promptly dent.

fennellwg, thank you for the shout out. I was pretty young then, but I remember it clearly. It was like the Beatles revolutionizing rock 'n roll in the history of bats. Most of the guys that I knew used a 36 or 38 which are clubs compared to today's bats.
Jan. 26, 2018
Clean Up
68 posts
If I remeber correctly, Ray Demarini claimed he was swinging a 30 ounce bat in his first video. I think it was the video he did for ESPN.
Jan. 26, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1331 posts
Clean Up, that is probably right. Most guys at our parks were swinging 36 and 38 ounce bats at the time. 30 was unheard of for a man to swing back then. Now they would complain that it is too heavy.
Jan. 26, 2018
crusher
Men's 75
524 posts
In 1997 l got a 97 Model 26oz Double Wall Demarini.
The best bat l had ever hit. We had great balls to go along with the bat.
Ray Demarini said the 97 model 26oz was the best bat he ever built because it hit the ball like a 28oz bat.
James
Jan. 27, 2018
Reggie4's
18 posts
Follow the $$$$$ Bats are more expensive than balls. We swung heavy Bats and hit blue dots. now we swing light composites and hit socks. (most of the time)
Jan. 27, 2018
Az Iz
65 posts

Reggie4's, you are correct. Now we use the "Rock" ball that warps out of shape when hit hard, causing the ball to have erratic flight characteristics.


Jan. 27, 2018
OZ40
532 posts
Aside from Evil, high cores or BP balls, the best balls by far IMO are the 44/375 microcell balls. We use Alan Tanners Team 1 version in our daytime league and the Trump version in our drop in games. I will not play in an open game or in a league that uses a sock ball. I'm not being picky, I'm being choosy I don't like balls that go 'thud' off of the bat so why waste my time being miserable? Not to sound morbid but at our age we have entered the check-out lane of life and no one knows where they are in that line. Someone needs to come out with a t-shirt that says:


"Life's Short, hit (brand name) balls.
Jan. 28, 2018
ALLPRO
60 posts
I got a nearly new (has original leather grip, less than 100 swings on it) RED Miken Ultra II in a 30oz looking for a new home!
Jan. 28, 2018
laramie55
13 posts
Got a price in mind?A red Miken Ultra II in a 30oz was my first senior bat swing. I was the 'new guy', hadn't played in ages, and was hitting pretty good with my OG Demarini in 30oz when a fella hands me the red miken and says, "Try this, it has a little crack on one side so don't worry about breaking it." After fouling one straight back I hit the next one off a telephone pole in the parking lot and bought myself one the next day. I bought that Demarini bat directly from Ray (in'89? He said he was 'in the garage'.) when I found his ad (about the size of your thumbnail) in the back pages of a sports mag while hunting custom glove makers. All it said was 'Custom Bats', a phone no. and his name. Ray was very gracious with his time and after a half hour conversation on hitting in general and bat speed (being a Williams disciple I totally concurred) vs mass, and he taught me something new when he talked about how the thinness of his aluminum barrel walls produced a trampoline effect. I let Ray talk me into one at 30 oz (Which was the heaviest he offered but Ray really, really wanted me to try a 26oz.) but I felt coming off a 38oz Easton that had infielders on the next diamond picking up my fly balls, dropping 8oz was enough for a speed increase significant enough to see greater distance and it was. It was a pleasure talking to Ray way back then and today I consider it an honor. He did great.
Jan. 29, 2018
ALLPRO
60 posts
Give me a way to contact u (e-mail or text). I don't think I am allowed to post this.
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