http://seniorsoftball.com/?page=12

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 4 members: Jmac 00, Rob64, Tony Boy, leslie; 309 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: Forfeit or not?

Posted Discussion
Jan. 30, 2018
Willy8
15 posts
Forfeit or not?
At the Winter Nationals this past November, our team was playing a close game (+4 run differential) when we came to bat in the top of the 7th inning. During the top of the 7th inning, the opposing pitchers, there were two, lost the strike zone and walked 9 batters, gave up numerous hits and had a few misplays in the field as we scored 17 runs. They were only able to record one out when they conceded the game by walking off the field before the inning was completed. Is that considered a forfeit or does the score get recorded even though the inning was not completed and the home team did not get a turn at bat in the bottom of the 7th? And should those runs be counted in the run differential for rating purposes? That one inning, if the runs were allowed to be counted, raised our run differential +3 runs per game. Is this correct?
Jan. 30, 2018
SSUSA Staff
3243 posts
Willy8 ... What age/division and the names of the teams involved? ...We'll look it up in the Ratings Database and let you know how it was handled ... Not enough information yet to make the inquiry ...
Jan. 30, 2018
Willy8
15 posts
SSUSA...CC Medical Services vs. Vios in the 70 AAA. The score was recorded as 32-11 but the 7th inning was never completed and should have been recorded as a forfeit (according to the rule Book). Going into the 7th inning, the score was 15-11 in favor of CC Medical Services, a very competitive game. We were ahead thanks to their pitchers walking 10 batters in the first six innings, but things exploded in the top of the 7th inning when they walked nine batters, including 5 in a row. We did win our bracket (our first tournament win, other than two team tourneys, in six years), but three of the six games were by one run. That one inning threw the whole rating process out of whack.
Jan. 30, 2018
SSUSA Staff
3243 posts
Willy8 ... We have looked at both the actual game card and the corresponding entry in the SSUSA Ratings Scoring Database ... Yes, your team was credited with a 32-11 win in that game, and NOT a 7-0 forfeit score ... The game card also supports your version of the score at the end of the 6th, 15-11 in your favor, and shows you getting 17 more in the top, and Vios getting none in the bottom, of the 7th ... However, here are a few more relevant observations ...

The score will remain in our scoring database as a 32-11 win because BOTH managers signed the game card with that score as the final, and NO mention that it was a forfeit appears on the card ... All managers are advised at EVERY Manager Meeting to carefully check and verify the score before signing it post-game ...
You appear to believe that such a score may have had a detrimental effect on your team's performance data that resulted in you being raised to 70-Major in the most recent rating cycle ... But how would the 7-0 score you want not have the same detrimental effect on reality, just from the other side of the coin? ... We're actually pleased the managers signed the card as they did ... Otherwise this dominating win might have "fallen through the cracks" and not been properly considered ...
You are correct that you won three games by a single run each in this tournament ... But you omit the inconvenient fact that your other two wins during your undefeated week were by ten runs each and that your run differential for the event was +44, for an average of +7.33 runs per game ... Those numbers are certainly in the realm that will get your rating a closer look ...

Jan. 30, 2018
Willy8
15 posts
SSUSA...My main point in the runs against is if that without that one non completed inning against Vios, our run differential would be +27 for an average of +4.5, a huge difference in average. In addition, one of our 10 run victories was against a AA team. It would seem to me that since we were competitive against The Bostonians and DAF/Global Trailers, and could have easily lost any one of those three one run games, maybe Senior Softball should look to down grade the teams we beat by ten runs to AA, increasing the number of teams in AA, making that division more competitive and leave us where we can play teams like The Bostonians even up. I can only ask that SSUSA take a closer look into our rating change.
Jan. 31, 2018
SSUSA Staff
3243 posts
Unless, of course, you put up another dozen or so runs in the remainder of that inning since you put up 17 and only made one out ... And then there's the question of how many Vios might have gotten if they batted (they only scored two runs after the 4th, so them shutting you down and then scoring three touchdowns to come from 21 down to tie is unlikely) ... All of those "what if's" are uncertain and speculative ... But what IS certain, is that you put up 32 ... It's an unrealistic manipulation of the data to act like you didn't really score them ... The rating system is not perfect, but what you are seeking is inconsistent with both fairness and sound decision making ... Lastly, and since you mentioned it, Bostonian 70's rating will also change to 70-Major immediately after the T.O.C. (because they won their bid at AAA), so you will get to play them straight up in the future ...

Feb. 4, 2018
Omar Khayyam
1354 posts
Here is another recent scenario where it wasn't technically a forfeit because both managers signed the score card.

My team was playing its 9th game (yes, coming out of the loser's bracket). Our guys were falling like flies to injury and exhaustion, and our pitcher was losing the plate. We finished a complete inning, our manager walked over to the other team's manager, and offered to end the game at 5 innings with the other team way ahead. They accepted and we happily trudged back to our dugout as no one thought we had the energy or ability to catch up in two innings. There were no complaints from the other team either as we all shook hands and exited the field.
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Email: info@SeniorSoftball.com
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
9823 Old Winery Place, Suite 12
Sacramento, CA 95827
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts international softball tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners