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Discussion: 11 on defense

Posted Discussion
May 28, 2018
maskedman
Men's 55
42 posts
11 on defense
Any others out there that would like to see the rules allow 11 defensive players? All ages all the time
May 28, 2018
DEJ13
17 posts
Maybe starting at the 65 age group
May 28, 2018
Jawood
Men's 50
926 posts
I have been for the 11 man defense for a long time. Maybe people would stay out of the middle a bit?
May 28, 2018
raiderman66
59 posts
Why is there a sudden hatred of offense? It isn't as if many guys when they get older all of sudden start hitting the ball harder and in the gaps. This suggestion isn't a good one unless you suddenly stopped taking care of yourself and need to depend on making the game worse because you're not up to the challenge.
May 29, 2018
curveball
Men's 65
671 posts
Makes perfect sense, as a person ages, and his skill levels deteriorate, make it harder for him to get a hit! Does speed up the game! Could do like kids Tee Ball and just spread whoever shows for the game all over the field!
Jawood, it does not decrease middle shooting, quite the opposite. Your best defensive guy just moved over and the 5-6 got smaller. Guy standing between pitcher and SS now; result, they try to hit to the 2nd base side of the pitcher or over him. IMO the extra fielder creates more middle shots, should be done away with or made uniform for all ages.
May 29, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1331 posts
Maskedman, in the SSUSA RULES COMMITTEE 2017 Annual Meeting Minutes in the pink section, it is listed and was discussed (last page). The associations have different rules on the 11 person defense as far as the beginning age. In SSUSA you can have that 11th fielder starting at age 70 (unless you pick an 11th fielder as an equalizer when playing against a team that would give you that option). If you feel strongly about it, you could submit a proposal to the upcoming rules committee for consideration.
May 29, 2018
Jawood
Men's 50
926 posts
I think it does decrease the middle shots some. With the 5 man infield the outfield gaps are wide open and a lot of balls go up the middle when trying to hit those gaps and miss hit it. With an 11 man defense, who knows where people would hit?
May 29, 2018
Dbax
Men's 60
1880 posts
The 11th fielder starting in the age 70 group is fine as it is.

Still Banned in Arizona
May 30, 2018
curveball
Men's 65
671 posts
Dbax, you don't play 70's do you? Why do you think it's OK for 11 in their age group?
May 30, 2018
Dbax
Men's 60
1880 posts
I play 60's and 65's. I just believe it is not needed in these ages because the skills are still there. If you want to do it, 70's is where to start.

STILL BANNED IN ARIZONA
May 30, 2018
crusher
Men's 75
524 posts
The 11th player up the middle was kind of a shock the first few games at 70+.
Players that could really carry an avg there was all of a sudden making outs.
So, you hit somewhere else and sometimes the middle will open back up.
May 31, 2018
curveball
Men's 65
671 posts
I watch several teams where the skills are still there and they play 3 outfielders and the extra infielder! Watch 50 M+ for the most part, mostly 5 man infield.
Do you think that the skill level is so diminished at 70 that another fielder is needed? If that's your thinking, shouldn't you have teams with the same skill level then use the 11th player, like 65M, 60AAA, and 55AA? I think the rule was put in place to get more old people into the game at the same time. Partisipation! It's a horrible idea period. Like I stated earlier, why not put 20 or so guys out there so it looks like a BP field! That will cut down on hits, cut down run production, and speed up the game!
Dbax, if you are going to place the extra fielder there, have it as a rule for all ages. Why pick on 70's to throw under the bus?
May 31, 2018
raiderman66
59 posts
I'm not 70 but I would imagine no guy who's 70 plays ball and says to himself how satisfying to go 1-4 with 11 or more fielders out there. The enjoyment from the game comes from being successful and no one in their 70's or above is a lock down defensive player I would imagine so more guys would probably prefer to hit the ball for hits. The game shouldn't be I'm not as good anymore so that means I don't want anyone out here to be better then me. Go enjoy and realize that softball is a game of hitting and any defense is great but it's still hitting that most guys enjoy.
May 31, 2018
Dbax
Men's 60
1880 posts
Curveball, not throwing anyone under the bus. I am against 11 players in all age groups. I was just commenting on the original question of implementing it in all age groups.
May 31, 2018
curveball
Men's 65
671 posts
Gotcha Dbax........I agree and may campaign to have the rule changed at the winter meeting.
raiderman, I would think you are pretty much spot on.

D, for your info, I play 75M+(Scrap Iron) and 65M (Las Vegas Stars). The 75's with the extra man isn't near as much fun hitting as hitting with the 65's (IMO). I've been a pull line drive hitter for 45 years!!!! Like so many of us as we age, I don't want more changes! It wasn't broken!
May 31, 2018
OZ40
537 posts
First were saddled with a 1-1 count then a wish for the 11th man on defense to keep the middle shots at bay. Priceless.....
May 31, 2018
Duke
Men's 65
888 posts
I like the 1-1 count, as it has increased the amount of innings that we get to play. I do not like the extra fielder for any age group.

JMHO,

Andy Smith,
USED2BE
May 31, 2018
Enviro-Vac
Men's 65
457 posts
I appreciate the comments OZ40 posts. Thoughtful and direct. I don't always agree but it's nice to see opinions based on solid reasoning. Keep it going OZ40.
June 1, 2018
bbullet
36 posts
I am not a fan of the 11 man. We play it in league and it does change how you hit which I feel hurts you when you play tournaments.

But in terms of tournaments, I do not understand how a team like Omen 70 Major Plus gets to use it when they CHOOSE to play 65 Major. In the tournament rules they claim "it's not an equalizer" are you kidding?

There were ELEVEN 70 major teams at Reno. Making that CHOICE to play 65 Major they should have to play by the rules governing that division. A Major Plus team has to play by the rules of the Major team when playing them. A 65 team - any division - has to now play with the one and one count when they play in a 60 division. If the Omen 70 logic holds true --- then the 65 team should bat with no count (that's what they play) and the 60 teams they play should bat with the one and one count!
June 2, 2018
ALLPRO
60 posts
For whatever reason the rule was established, it is no longer valid or necessary in any age group. If you watch the positioning of the 11th man they very rarely are in a position to "protect" the pitcher (who now wear protective gear that didn't exist when the rule was put into effect), the middle is still open. It is now used like the Major league defenses that "shift" from batter to batter.

As for "getting" more players into the game, that's nonsense. You can have numerous players as AH's and rotate players into the defense if you want them more involved in the field.

Time to eliminate this "antiquated rule! the 70's are not a special group of old people that need to be protected!
June 2, 2018
curveball
Men's 65
671 posts
Spot on ALLPRO.
June 2, 2018
Country13
16 posts
GO BACK TO 10 men ON THE FIELD. MAKES NO SENSE TO ME. Maybe Im just dumb like that. 😂
June 3, 2018
curveball
Men's 65
671 posts
13, curious. What are your positives 11 men bring to the game? What level do you play?
June 3, 2018
Lefty
Men's 70
694 posts
I play 67 and up in rec ball on a 250 field with a 12 foot fence.11 players on the field. I bat left handed so from right center to right 3 outfielders and still have a left and left center fielder. Don't like 11 players on a short field. Makes it hard to have fun for getting an avg.. I guess the younger player is saying just old people. Well let the young players try 11 players once they run out of HR's. Avg. goes down. Fun playing goes down.
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