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Discussion: questions to catchers and umpires

Posted Discussion
June 13, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
167 posts
questions to catchers and umpires
I know the answer to this question, but what I really want to know is what to do next.

Bases loaded, outs don't matter. Pitchers pitches ump looks over to third base and ask the runner on third weather he is a runner or a coach. player responds runner.

So what would you do as a catcher and also if you are the manager of the team.


Help.
June 13, 2018
softball4b
Men's 60
1060 posts
I may have graduated from a small school in southern Arkansas, but I am having trouble deciphering your question. [Pitchers pitches ump looks over to third base and ask the runner on third weather he is a runner or a coach.] Did the pitcher throw the umpire at the runner on 3rd because a weather related event. Just askin.
June 13, 2018
B.J.
391 posts
well i'm glad you know the answer... and please share it
June 13, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
834 posts
Grayhitter59, is the reason that the umpire is asking that is because the runner is standing off of third when the ball is pitched? Is that the question?
June 14, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
167 posts
Nancy, that is what i thought. He would not even acknowledge me when I asked.

That is my question, what is the best way to communicate to an ump, that he needs to make a call and not to be an instructor.

Softball4b sorry for the misspell, auto correct got the best of me, did not read back what I wrote.

The answer is simple off the bag when a pitch is thrown automatic call out.

June 14, 2018
softball4b
Men's 60
1060 posts
Leave it Nancy to understand oldman speak. Now I get it. Still wondering about the weather event though, fog, rain, sun field.....smile...it's joke, thank God for spell check, I just wish there was, what I meant to say was check........
June 15, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
834 posts
Grayhitter59, that is what I thought that you meant, but I never assume anything (usually). Yes, that is a dead ball out if he is standing off the bag when the ball is pitched. I think that it will probably depend on the umpire how you can get them to communicate. If I see it, I am calling it even without your help. Third is pretty easy to see from the plate.

Softball4b, I will take that as a compliment, but I think that it has to do more with being around softball than old guys. I have learned a lot about communication from my old guys though. I like the weather reference. I had to deal with a youngster this week that wanted to absolutely insist that a person had to play the field before they can bat. "It's a rule." He seemed deaf to the concept of a sub at any time. I finally just said that, yes, there was one park here that had that as a league rule, but he was way too young to have ever played there. They have been closed for many years. They also had a league rule that in coed that a girl had to bat first. What?
June 15, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
167 posts
Nancy thank you, I know you are a good ump, we have spoken many a time.

My questions still is, if he will not make the call, what can be done next. In my opinion rules are rules. In this case we still won the game, but that's not not the point.

To top it off at the end of all games on Saturday I ran into him and asked was he off the bag and he said yes.

So, I don't understand why he choose to not make the call "tight Ball game" maybe. Still not acceptable in my book.

And to top it off, I was criticized by my teammates for holding up the game. WOW!!!!

So I need your help, how does one proceed when an issue likr this happens?
June 15, 2018
B.J.
391 posts
if this is tournament ball and the umpire refuses to make that call then get with the UIC or tournament director.. also sometimes during tournament play I have had both teams ask if it was ok for a runner on 3rd to step off the bag when a BIG pull hitter is up.. usually that is determined many times before the tournament starts on whether that will be allowed
June 15, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
834 posts
Grayhitter59, thank you so much.

I would call for time and explain to them exactly what my concern was and what I expected. Since it is more about a rule than judgement, your only other action would be to call for a director or UIC. Of course who knows how that will work against you the rest of the game. Him admitting that he saw it really makes me wonder about him as an official. There are rules that I sometimes don't agree with, but I still enforce them. I agree with you on what he did, actually didn't do.

Well, and then there is the teammate. If you had gotten the out, I bet that they would not have said anything. Don't get me into the discussion of if they are allowed to stand on the orange bag to avoid a foul ball, then why isn't there an orange bag on 3rd? Just for the record, I do not like that they can stand on the orange bag when the ball is being pitched. That is my own opinion but not consistent with our rules

What I suggested above is the only ways that I can think of to handle it by protocol. From what you have above, it looks like he still did not give you a reason for his inaction.
June 15, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
834 posts
BJ, thanks, you typed faster than me, and I am glad that we agree. I don't like situations where both teams agree on something unless it is in league ball and definitely not this. So that runner gets hit with a foul ball standing off the bag because I let him do that because the teams agree on it. Then I have put myself in the middle of a potential lawsuit by allowing it. So it is not happening with me.
June 15, 2018
stick8
1610 posts
There are some local leagues that draw a chalk like adjacent to third base. The idea is the runner, being in foul terrotory, is not out if struck with a hard line drive or grounder.
But it wonít hurt any less if he does get hit!!
June 16, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
167 posts
Nancy, thank you for the clarification.

I know the rules are different for certain leagues, but this was at a tournament. I was told to let it go due to fact the TD was not on site at the moment.

I would have loved to see the reactions of my teammates if we had gotten the call. I guess I will allow in the future rules to be broken or uninforced, so that I don't get criticized or "slow the game down".

like they say to me all the time "Manny being Manny"
June 16, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
834 posts
Stick8, I get the league rule for letting the runner be off the bag at 3rd. I am not sure why a runner would be out for being hit by a foul ball.

Grayhitter59, you're welcome. BJ said the same thing and glad that we agree. In tournament play that is unacceptable. It is also unacceptable that there was no director or UIC on site. I disagree with your teammates. You were right, and there should have been a dead ball out. Offensive outs are always the easiest. The fact that the umpire admitted to it bothers me too. I would have rather had him say that he never saw it do didn't call it.

Just keep being Manny. You should have gotten the out.
June 18, 2018
stick8
1610 posts
Nancy the league rule is runner would not be out if he stands on the designated line in foul territory if heís struck buy a batted ball. Thatís the main intent of the rule!!
Grayhitter59,the best way to get an umps attention is for the manager to request time and ask whatever question he has. Itís not a guarantee but for myself Iíd would grant that request before Iíd ever listen to,players who are agitated and combative.
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