Message board »Message Board home »Sign-in or register to get started
Online now: 2 members: TABLE SETTER 11, cecil; 110 anonymousDiscussion: Rule Question
| Posted | Discussion |
| June 16, 2018 Turbo 34 Men's 50 47 posts | Rule Question A player on third takes off for home on a ball they think will be a clean hit to the gap. Defensive player makes incredible diving catch just as the runner crosses no return line. Can the run go back to third if they crossed the line? |
| June 16, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | NOPE ... The Commitment Line is a one-way street ... Once crossed, it may not be re-crossed on the way back to third base for any reason, including to tag up ... Base runner is OUT ... It's a simple base running blunder best not repeated ... |
| June 16, 2018 titanhd Men's 60 638 posts | He would be out on appeal.Correct? |
| June 16, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | NOPE ... It's an automatic call, not an appeal ... See Rulebook §8.8 [emphasis added] on page 51 ... __________ §8.8 • COMMITMENT LINE A commitment line thirty feet from the scoring line or scoring plate will be used. Once a runner's foot touches the ground on or past this line, the runner is committed to advancing to the scoring line or scoring plate and may no longer be tagged out. EFFECT: Tag of the runner by a defensive player will not be allowed. The runner will be called safe, the ball remains live and the runner is not required to touch the scoring plate or cross the scoring line. NOTE: If a runner re-crosses the commitment line for any reason in an attempt to return to third base, he will be declared out and the ball remains live. |
| June 17, 2018 B.J. 1105 posts | the only play the runner would have is to continue on and touch the scoring plate.. and then hope the defense doesn't appeal that he never tagged after the catch |
| June 17, 2018 yerwombat Men's 60 76 posts | What if the runner paused after crossing the line and an errant throw from the outfield was picked up by the catcher and he tug the runner before he crossed the plate? A true comedy of errors |
| June 17, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Yep, that would be a script worthy of a Tim Conway/Harvey Korman sketch ... The initial call should probably be "safe" due to the tag on the home plate side of the C/L, subject to an appeal ("out" should be granted) that he did not tag up ... That scenario/sketch would also likely involve U.I.C. and a Director characters at some point! ... |
| June 17, 2018 Dbax Men's 65 2100 posts | You should never "tug" a runner! |
| June 17, 2018 ChiPrimeMarty Men's 60 104 posts | A little off topic, but the craziest thing I saw with the commit line was a baserunner caught in a rundown between 3rd & home. The last throw came from 3rd as the runner was advancing towards home but hadn't crossed the line yet. The catcher came up the 3rd base line towards the runner, who paused just before the commit line then deliberately crossed it just before he was tagged by the catcher. The umpire called him out, then the runner went into the dugout and sat down. Not surprisingly, a dispute ensued because the runner can't be tagged out like that after he crosses the line; the catcher has to have the ball with his foot on home plate. The tournament director was called and the eventual solution was to call the runner safe, but he was sent back to 3rd because he never scored. Those of us standing around waiting for this game to end so we could play ours were fortunate there was not an additional baserunner who advanced to 3rd during the rundown. Who knows how long that would have taken to resolve? Mr. Dave Dowell, I'd like your thoughts on the ruling of the incident described above and how it should have been handled if another runner had advanced to 3rd base. |
| June 17, 2018 k man Men's 65 326 posts | Back to the original question, why are some runners leaving 3rd base in a mad dash??? They should be holding to tag with less than 2 outs. If caught they tag or should easily score when it hits turf. Amazed at how many runners take off and when the ball is caught, lose the opportunity to score because they have to return to retouch. |
| June 17, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | ChiPrimeMarty ... Your answer is in the second to last sentence of the rule cited above ... "..The runner will be called safe, the ball remains live and the runner is not required to touch the scoring plate or cross the scoring line.." ... In your hypothetical, the run scores and the following runner, if he acquired third base legally, stays there ... The umpire erred in sending the initial runner back to third after he should have been declared "safe" at home by rule ... k man ... We don't know! |
| June 17, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Order of precedence is important. We once had one that slid into the scoring plate, was then tagged before he actually touched it, and then touched the scoring plate. Any guesses? |
| June 17, 2018 yerwombat Men's 60 76 posts | I have seen a runner called out for sliding across the scoring line, no tag involved |
| June 17, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | I meant the strike mat, not the scoring plate. Yes, this was the runner's first 50 tournament. |
| June 18, 2018 B.J. 1105 posts | nancy.. the runner would be out "IF" he started his slide before the tag for entering the batters box area ... the tag and touching the strike mat would become a moot point |
| June 18, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | BJ, you are of course right. That slide made everything else not relevant, but it was entertaining to watch. Fortunately the umpire also called it correctly. It was interesting to watch, a lot going on. Of course the offensive coach tried to argue the tag, but his guy was sliding towards the strike mat before the tag. |
| June 18, 2018 stick8 1991 posts | The ruling in the original post would be runner at third would be automatically out if he crossed the commit line and then went back over it to tag up.The ball is still live. ChiPrimeMarty, in your scenario that runner is automatically safe and does not have to touch the scoring plate or cross the scoring line. The runner out cerebraled the catcher!! The play still remains live. BJ, I thought the rule of sliding into the scoring line or the second home plate was changed a couple years ago? Obviously as you state you can’t slide into the mat or in the batters box but can’t you now slide into the scoring plate or line? |
| June 18, 2018 B.J. 1105 posts | stick.. the rule was changed for I think a few months or maybe a yr? and then I think SSUSA said it was a typo?? that's if I'm remembering it correctly? the only slide allowed now into home would be to avoid a collision from an errant throw to the plate.. also if a runner mistakenly enters the batters box when trying to score he is out.. slide or no slide |
| June 18, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | stick8 and B.J. • The rule prohibiting a slide into/across the scoring line/plate has been unchanged for at least a decade or more ... The only related change was a couple years ago to make the batter's box and strike mat area a "no fly zone", prohibiting running through OR over that area ... All plays at home are "force plays" except for the limited exception available in the instance of the base runner avoiding a collision with a defensive player (umpire's judgment call) ... |
| June 18, 2018 B.J. 1105 posts | Dave, no that's not correct.. I went back thru my old rule books and it was in the 2011/12 rule book pg 64 RULE 8.6 sliding or diving into first base or the scoring plate/line is permitted |
| June 18, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | B.J. ... We're both (sort of) incorrect ... The change prohibiting a slide into 1st Base or The Scoring line/plate was made 5½ years ago at the 2012 National Rules Committee sessions, first appearing in print in the 2013-14 version of the Rulebook ... That's certainly longer than "..a few months or maybe a yr..", but also a lot less than "..a decade or more"!.. ... My apologies for the confusion, but it's nothing really "new" ... |
| June 18, 2018 B.J. 1105 posts | it's ok Dave u r getting older..lol.. and the few months or maybe a yr. that I referred to wasn't for how long ago that the rule was changed.. it was for the length of time that the rule was changed for :) |
| June 18, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Boys, blame me. I brought up the scenario. |
| June 18, 2018 stick8 1991 posts | So to summarize, if a runner is attempting to score and he elects to,slide into the scoring plate or scoring line, not avoiding an errant throw and is nowhere near the batters box, he is automatically out? |
| June 18, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Ultimate short summary • YES |
| June 18, 2018 stick8 1991 posts | Okeedokeee. Thx Davey |
| June 18, 2018 BruceAZ Men's 70 155 posts | Unless the umpire turns his back on the play and doesn't see it. Happened to us in the SW Championship, we went into extra innings, we're in the field, winning run on 2nd, batter gets a hit to left field, as the runner is running in from 3rd base to home the umpire, I guess he thought the game was over, turned his back on the play and walked to the fence and didn't see the runner slide across the scoring line. We protested but the umpire wouldn't change his mind and the UIC and TD didn't do anything because the umpire didn't see the infraction. |
| June 18, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | BruceAZ, that is a horrible way to end a ballgame. You can't call what you don't see but sounds like someone checked out early. He should have been right there with you until the end. |
