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Online now: 2 members: TABLE SETTER 11, TrayMax23; 47 anonymousDiscussion: You Make the Call
| Posted | Discussion |
| July 20, 2018 Mulewhipper Men's 55 128 posts | You Make the Call Here is one for you OZ40… Runners on 2nd & 3rd, one out, batter hits the ball on the ground on a big bounce over the pitchers head, the pitcher slightly touches the ball and it continues on towards 2nd base. The runner on 2nd has no time to move and jumps up in the air to avoid contacting the ball, however the ball lodges between his thighs while in mid-air and he comes back down on the bag. The runner...with the ball still lodged between his legs, holds the ball there as the infielders try to remove it. Meanwhile the runner on 3rd takes off towards home and before they can remove it and scores. The runner with the ball lodged probably held the ball there for about 4-5 seconds. |
| July 20, 2018 OZ40 549 posts | If the game was being played in San Francisco there is no penalty for a defensive player grabbing the wrong ball provided the grabber buys the grabee dinner after the game. |
| July 20, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Oz ... That's pretty (non-PC) funny! ... I'll defer answering the "You Make the Call" part until a few of the others get a shot at it, but I was one of the three-person Protest Committee that heard this one ... In the conversation, the on-site Director said: "Yes, the runner on second jumped up with two balls in his shorts and came down with three" ... We continued toward the final ruling after the other two of us picked up our dropped cell phones and stopped laughing ... |
| July 20, 2018 B.J. 1105 posts | OZ...lmao... great answer and you are definitely Tour. Dir. material... ok let me try to answer this now that i have stopped laughing.. usually the pitcher in not considered a fielder but since he was able to get a glove on the batted ball and it caromed off his glove I would consider that an attempt to catch.. and it sounds like there was no other fielder that was near enough to make a play so there would be no consequence for the ball hitting the runner while off the bag (in the air).. since the runner then landed on the bag with the ball still lodged between his legs and was not forced to advance I would have a dead ball(s) .. I would award the batter 1st base and then judge whether the runner on 3rd should score.. also this decision would be based on the field umpires judgement and how they described the scenario to the Tour. Dir. |
| July 20, 2018 OZ40 549 posts | Mulewhipper so sorry for my response, I honestly thought it was just a post made in jest! It must have been a wild scene at the game! |
| July 24, 2018 Mulewhipper Men's 55 128 posts | No need to apologize OZ...it was a wild situation indeed, it took almost 20 minutes to get the official call made. In the end, the play did not dictate the outcome of the game, but it was a close game at the time of the call. Anyway, after the discussion with the “Protest Committee”, the official call was “the play was considered a live ball, the run scores, the baserunner on second stays and the batter was awarded first base”. My personal interpretation of the rule was that the ball being tipped by the pitcher does dictate a live ball, however, the length of time that the player purposely (admittedly) held the ball between his legs should have been declared a dead ball and the runner should have been placed back to 3rd base and the batter awarded 1st base, making the bases loaded. Holding the ball like that is not unlike kicking it, or picking it up and throwing it...it should have been ruled dead. I don't believe the play was accurately described to the "Protest Committee". Dave and the others made the correct call as being described to them….not being there to actually see it happen, was a difficult scenario to envision. |
| July 24, 2018 KP&R 22 posts | Does this scenario come with Benny Hill music in the background? |
| July 24, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | We actually chose Monty Python for this one because of the high absurdity index ... |
| July 24, 2018 Mulewhipper Men's 55 128 posts | That's a great call KP&R...it could have been playing in the background while George the umpire was waiting for the official call. I am now going to find that song, put it on my phone and have it ready to blast on my blue tooth speaker the next time something like this happens. |
| July 24, 2018 B.J. 1105 posts | Mulewhipper.. just for info. on the run scoring.. with this scenario it doesn't matter if they decided on it being a dead ball or live ball .. it would still be umpire judgement on whether they believed the run would have scored.. and with the the info. given I would think that with the ball hit on the ground and bouncing over and going off the pitchers glove that the runner from 3rd would have scored |
| July 24, 2018 Softballjuny23 Men's 40 11 posts | Here is what the call should have been. When the pitcher got a glove on the ball he became a fielder. With that the runner would not have been out when the ball hit him. Now with the way it is explained here, there should have been a dead ball call with offensive interference once the base runner just sat there and held the ball between his legs. he now has not allowed the defense to make a 0lay on the ball. With less the 2 outs runner closest to home is out with 2 outs the runner interfering is out |
| July 24, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | And here's what the Protest Committee ruling WAS based on the facts as presented to them (whether or not that presentation was completely accurate) ... The Committee, in response to a specific question on point, understood/believed that the ball had gone up the fielder's shorts, and was not merely clamped between his thighs in sight ... With that belief, the ruling was to defer to the somewhat analogous baseball "lodged ball" rule (interpretation below) ... Again, based on the purported facts as we understood them at the time, we stand by the call ... Regardless, what a great circumstance and further proof that just when you think you've seen it all, YOU HAVEN'T !!! ... It's a classic ... __________ "..If a batted or thrown ball inadvertently goes inside a player or coach’s uniform (or lodges in the catcher’s face mask or paraphernalia), the umpire shall call “Time.” He will, using common sense and fair play, place all runners in such a manner that, in the umpire’s judgment, will nullify the action of the ball going out of play. In no case may any outs be recorded on such play. Note that this interpretation does not apply to situations where a batted or thrown ball lodges in a fielder’s glove. In those cases, the ball is alive and in play.." |
| July 24, 2018 Softballjuny23 Men's 40 11 posts | Must have been explained to the committee differently the was here on the board. But sound like yall made the proper call if it was lodged in the uniform |
| July 24, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Softballjuny23 ... It's "one for the books" either way! ... There were decades of experience on that field between the players and umps, and the consensus appeared to be a lot of head scratching and "..Well, I ain't never seen THAT before!.." ... Thanks for your insights! |
| July 25, 2018 curty Men's 60 187 posts | actually had similar situation ( as umpire) years ago: bases loaded, no outs. 2nd baseman, attempting to field a ground ball, had ball go inside his shirt. he went to the base for the force out on r1 with the ball still in there, with arms crossed to contain it. I made no call, but the runner assumed he was out & left the field- at which time I declared an out. At the completion of the play the fielder retrieved the ball & held it up for all to see. As a coincidence, this fielder had a prosthetic leg! True story! |
| July 25, 2018 Softballjuny23 Men's 40 11 posts | DaveDowell, I have 26+ years in Boy Baseball and slowpitch softball, I have seen it stuck in Jersey gloves, the fence, even in an ice cooler before, but never bounce up someone's shorts. Had to be site to be seen.. Lol |
| July 25, 2018 Mulewhipper Men's 55 128 posts | OK...look, as funny as it sounds and as much fun as you are all having with this...the truth is, the ball was not inside his shorts or uniform or anything else. It was between his knees and he held it there on purpose to stall and allow the runner from 3rd to score...who by the way had held up until that moment before he took off for the plate. |
| July 25, 2018 stick8 1991 posts | Mulewhipper, As unusual as this play sounds if the runner who had the ball lodged between his legs did as you claimed then a case can be made for interference. I won’t 100% call it because I’d have to see the play first. Imagine if this was the winning run of a game!! I’d imagine there would be some ticked off players on the defense. |
| July 27, 2018 Softballjuny23 Men's 40 11 posts | Mulewhipper, as you can see, you have explained it one way and DaveDowell explains it another way. If the ball was held between the knees as you said, no question asked it is interference should have been called and the runner out. |
| July 28, 2018 B.J. 1105 posts | you have to remember when a tour. dir. or protest committee gets involved in a ruling the ruling is only as good as the info. that is given to them because usually they didn't see the play.. I understand Mulewhipper disagrees with the ruling but the info. given by the umpires as to what they saw must have been different |
| July 31, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | In all my years of softball in any capacity, I saw things that I have only seen once or twice, or in this case never this weekend. On my last game Sunday, the runner rounded 2nd and was quite a few feet off of it. The ball was thrown in badly, and he went down. We all assumed that he went down because of the ball. As he lay there on the ground with the ball between his knees, this discussion was in the back of my head. Instead of going for the ball to tag him out, the defense called for time. It turns out that it was his hamstring that put him on the ground. It was a very close championship game. So I would like to tell the Panthers publicly here that this is one of greatest displays of sportsmanship that I have witnessed. To be more worried about the player than the out proves that they are very special. Thank you. |
| July 31, 2018 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | I understand how this is funny, but let's get back to the facts. 1) the ball was touched by the pitcher, so if it hits a offensive player, there is no out recorded and play continues, until defense controls ball and time is called. 2) the ball is lodged somewhere on the offensive players body after being touch by the pithcer, so the call should be dead ball no further advance from the offense. everyone is safe, next batter. My 2 cents. |
| Aug. 1, 2018 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | All you have to know is what's the call when the runner got hit with the ball and it got lodged. MLB ruling should apply here also. Rule 5.01(b) [former Rule 5.02]: If a batted or thrown ball inadvertently goes inside a player or coach’s uniform (or lodges in the catcher’s face mask or paraphernalia), the umpire shall call “Time.” He will, using common sense and fair play, place all runners in such a manner that, in the umpire’s judgment, will nullify the action of the ball going out of play. In no case may any outs be recorded on such play. Note that this interpretation does not apply to situations where a batted or thrown ball lodges in a fielder’s glove. In those cases, the ball is alive and in play. A fielder may legally throw the glove with the live ball lodged in the glove. Any fielder in possession of the glove containing the lodged ball is considered in pos-session of the ball for the purpose of the Rules. For example, a fielder could legal-ly tag a runner or a base while in possession of the glove containing the lodged ball. |
