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Discussion: Major++

Posted Discussion
Aug. 10, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
Major++
Did I miss the Major++ briefing? Congratulations...I think.
Aug. 14, 2018
marcster13
94 posts
What is this Major Plus Plus thing about? This is the second post I've seen mentioning this ranking but I don't see it listed as a rating on this site.
Aug. 15, 2018
DoubleL10
Men's 65
895 posts
This new rating appears to have been created solely for the Timberworks 65 team. That is the only reference I can find to this rating. Still, they are listed as Major Plus in the ratings list.
I knew they were good but I was not aware that a new rating had to be created for them!
I can certainly think of other teams that could be justified at the new level since they also win "all the time".
Aug. 15, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
I have a good friend that plays on that team. He was telling me about the experience in their first tournament playing it. In a way it is a compliment, but I find it very interesting as an example. They now have to give Major teams runs and a fielder. He wasn't complaining, but it created some interesting situations.
Aug. 15, 2018
Dbax
Men's 60
1819 posts
They must give Major Plus teams the runs. Why would a team rated Major Plus ask for runs?
Aug. 15, 2018
stattad
Men's 65
222 posts
Because they're so much better.
Aug. 15, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
In competition, I think that any of us would take any advantage that we could get. They could also select the extra fielder instead, but with homerun hitters that would not seem like much of an advantage to me, until the homeruns ran out of course.
Aug. 15, 2018
Dbax
Men's 60
1819 posts
They are not that much better. And not all of us in competition would take every advantage we could. Especially if already rated Major Plus. It's a stupid rule.
Aug. 15, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
Dbax, sorry, I did not mean that in bad way, but I think that if I am coaching a team in a major tournament that I would take advantage of any aspect that I could, but that is just one woman's thought on it. The stories that my friend shared with me from the Western National were very interesting. He is a very laid back person that I have the greatest respect for, and he talks about these things from a more academic perspective to me. I am not sure that everyone else on the team feels that way. Doak presented another perspective, and I totally respect his views on it. I have not had the pleasure of watching them play. I was wondering if you had the opportunity to. I know that you are much closer to where they would play and would love to hear what you think.
Aug. 15, 2018
Benji4
212 posts
DC

JK Inc. is a Major Plus team and we are required to give runs to other Major Plus teams.

Funny thing is no other Major plus team in Vegas in April took runs in round robin. One team took them in the playoffs, after they didn't take them in round robin against us.

I agree why is a major plus team taking runs or a fielder against another major plus team?

Benji
Aug. 15, 2018
Dbax
Men's 60
1819 posts
Keith, you guys must also be rated Major ++ if you are giving runs to Major Plus.
Aug. 15, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
Benji4, is that J.K. Inc/Easton 50's in the ratings? I am just curious. Thanks.
Aug. 15, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
241 posts
I am confused, I have been playing for ten years, is this like double secret probation. LMAO.

Someone clarify this, a Major plus team in same age bracket give runs or player to another major plus team?????
Aug. 15, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
241 posts
ok you give up runs or player if you are younger and playing major plus.

No advantage if you are same age and both team major plus. Correct?
Aug. 15, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
241 posts
So,l i went to western national 65 major plus bracket and was amazed to see that Timberworks gave runs or player to another major plus team in same age bracket!

Wow!

Need an explanation on this one.
Aug. 15, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
grayhitter59, that is pretty sharp on your part. I just have a casual interest in it because of my friend, but I will admit that you made me look.
Aug. 15, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
241 posts
Nancy, can you explain it to me?

Or are you as shocked as I.
Aug. 15, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
Grayhitter59, my friend, who is not the coach, said that it was because they outperformed the Major+ teams. Any official answer is between the office and the coach.

I thought that it was interesting, but I would not use the word shocked. It's not like you can physically move them down to 60, even though they would probably like to have those 5 years back. I have joked over the years that there are a couple of teams that should be moved from AA to A, but it was only a joke, and I did not see this one on the higher end in my crystal ball.

Aug. 15, 2018
StevenL.Imlay
Men's 60
160 posts
Nancy,
The move from Major to Major Plus isn't easy and some rule changes should probably be made to make that transformation easier for them. However, penalizing another Major Plus team doesn't make a lot of sense. Lower level or new unproven Major plus teams probably should take the runs as you suggested. Higher level, well not something I would want a team of mine to do.
SLi
Aug. 15, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
Steve, I always trust your judgement, especially at this level of softball. I am guessing that this might be a work in progress as your team looks like a pilot project. I agree with you, but as a coach, I would probably take any advantage that I could for my team even if unpopular.

We missed you in Columbus. Butch wants to be Major++ too.
Aug. 15, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
241 posts
So is this a new raking in SSUSA?

I am so confused!

I think this is all made up, but I did see it on the bracket in the western tournament 65 major plus.

someone say it ain't so!

LMAO
Aug. 15, 2018
Webbie25
Men's 65
2264 posts
It's not a joke, grayhitter.
The rating is unofficial for sure, but still exists. I, also, would never take the runs-period. I play M+ to play the best and do my best. I believe it is an experiment to get more teams to move to M+, but the truth is that every M+ team tries to improve every year to compete against the best, if they lose the year before. We-Timberworks-have 4 new players this year. One has had back surgery and is out for the year. One has an achilles problem and is out for an extended period. I missed a tourney and a half with a bad back. And the team goes on like nothing happened. It is a tribute to a great bunch of guys and a great team. But, what happens if we lose worlds by losing two 1 run games and we had to give 5 runs to our opponent. Does anybody really feel good about that at the level that supposedly pits the best against the best? I think not.
Aug. 15, 2018
Fabe
Men's 60
407 posts
This is interesting my local team just repeated as State Champs for our 60+ tourney...Island directors were murmuring this idea towards our team! Wow, now I see it happening at the national level!!!! Go fiqure😎 Aloha, Fabe
Aug. 15, 2018
Duke
Men's 65
882 posts
Personally, I do not agree with the Major++ rating. Obviously, Timberworks, San Francisco Seals, and others are at the top of their game. BUT, by creating a Major++ rating, just starts a division that will eventually have more teams with that rating, thus another division with not too many teams to play, which is absolutely boring.

As I play in older divisions, I have noticed the Major+ and Major teams to play dwindling in numbers. If this continues to happen, then I might just retire from tournaments, and just play in a few leagues. OR, I might just play in younger divisions, until I cannot compete with the younger players.

JMHO,

Andy Smith,
USED2BE
Aug. 15, 2018
Pa
40 posts
i no JK has only been in the 50s a year but go threw the last 12 or 13 years and count up there win loss record and that is why they are plus plus even guys that a relatively new to JK and played against them for years use to complain about them. Teams that get room and board and rent a cars should be in there own division self supporting teams can`t pick up and keep the best players from any state they want and fly them in.
Aug. 16, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
241 posts
PA I am sorry that's garbage! If they are the best, they are the best period, that's like saying the Redsox and the Yankees have to spot runs because their payroll is much more than other teams.

I call BS, if this was my team I would be going insane, I have played both on and against major plus teams, have given up runs and have had runs given to my team. But imposing a special racking just for one team, again i call BS.

Aug. 16, 2018
Webbie25
Men's 65
2264 posts
Pa, I would like to answer that. I have not played on a fully sponsored team since 1983. Timberworks covers entry fees and we get some equipment, just like a lot of teams. I pay to fly, rent a car, get a hotel, and it is expensive. That is the price I pay to play the game I love at the level I enjoy competing at with a great bunch of guys, who also happen to be an unbelievable team.
Aug. 16, 2018
tattooball
752 posts
Why wouldn't they address the real problem?

Take 2 identical maps. Cut Ca and adjoining states then flip the cutout over and place on the east coast. You will find that it is pretty close to east of the Mississippi. Allow the east and west to pick up anyone they like from east/west and no team will be dominate.


This sounds like our government just adding bs instead of fixing the real problem.
Aug. 16, 2018
Benji4
212 posts
Nancy Allen

Yes you are correct. We are JK INC/Easton

PA

Why does it matter if we have a great sponsor? Why does it matter all of us fly to tournaments, and get some perks?

If you are that jealous then go practice and get better. We are always looking for players....

We will give runs or the players because the rules say we have to. No one on our team bitches or complains we just go play with a vengeance and try to kick teams asses.

Good luck to you PA and when you think you are ready call JK and I am sure you can get a tryout.

Benji

Aug. 16, 2018
softball4b
Men's 65
1107 posts
Insert name of team that is really really good here______________M++ is a bunch of bull. Instead of Doug getting penalized for putting together a group of talented individuals, he should be applauded for putting together a bunch of talented players and keeping them together.

They always bat more people than most teams have on their roster. You try keeping a bunch of prima donnas I mean talented players together and get them enough playing time that they want to stay together regardless of how many games they win. The prima donna statement was tongue in cheek. I have played with and or against these guys my entire senior career and most of them are fine individuals as well as great ballplayers. Imlay is the exception, he is just too nice of a guy.;-)

This same message board was all over Sommerville a few years ago for being the class of the division and your point.... I concur that if you have a decent sponsor you can attract more quality players. So what, least I be uninformed, the majority of the senior division is retired, semi retired or wanting to retire. If you can get a little help, more power to you. This conversation is not about sponsorship but rather sportsmanship. If JK,Timberworks,Summy, Hollis, Hendrickson, or whomever puts together a great team applaud them, compete against them, beat them, and relish in your accomplishment.

Runs or extra man in the same division is not fair period.

Webbie, don't whine about injuries, everybody hurts at this age. ;-) TW has the depth in its roster to overcome what would be devastating to other teams.

Patti and Carol, I will add you to the sainthood application that I sent in for Dawn.
Aug. 16, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
Benji4, thank you. I was pretty sure that it was the same team, but you know how official names are sometimes. I don't think that you actually said it, but you sounded like your team is now Major++ also. I was only aware of the one because my friend told me about their team. You are very fortunate to have a sponsor. When I first started playing (last century), companies were willing to sponsor teams at all levels, but with prices of leagues/tournaments/jerseys going up, and companies having to tighten their belts, it is really hard to find anyone willing to do that. I cannot tell you how many times Coachie and I made up the difference when there was not enough money put in by our team. We were very fortunate that Pike Collision paid for a few of our tournaments, and I always made sure to get the owner a shirt for appreciation. I like your attitude on playing within the constraints of the rules. That makes you a wise man because just complaining never does much constructive good. I hope that I get to watch your team play some day. It sounds like a good group. Good luck in your games.
Aug. 16, 2018
DW_7
Men's 50
10 posts
Just my .02 but if SS wanted to add another division, I think it should be on the other end; AA. Just like in non-SS softball, most teams are not "uppers". If your a tournament org. that wants to fill your weekends with teams, everybody in SoCal knows the money is in the lower divisions. So, it seems that a better way might be to expand lower and provide more room for new teams to develop. This would also allow for players/teams who haven't played in years to re-enter at a level they can grow from. ++ , IMO, seems stupid especially when you're doing it for just one team. Do something for hundreds of teams & help new teams get into SS.
Aug. 16, 2018
MurrayW
Men's 65
150 posts
DW_7, Senior Softball does have an AA division.
Aug. 16, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
MurrayW, if I read his post correctly, I think that he means like a step down from AA like A or AA- or whatever you want to call it. DW_7, do you agree?
Aug. 16, 2018
Mango
Men's 50
154 posts
Can anyone shed light on the following rumors?

Next year Golden State has to spot all NBA teams points and a 6th player.


Tim Mollette(sic) has taken over a controlling interest in SSUSA.




Aug. 16, 2018
Webbie25
Men's 65
2264 posts
Mike, you know my point was that the new guys this year have been out quite a bit and the team doesn't miss a beat.
Aug. 16, 2018
MurrayW
Men's 65
150 posts
Nancy, well, there are very few teams in AA right now, so I don't see how making an even lower division would encourage any more participation.
Aug. 16, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
MurrayW, I agree with that. So could you tell me what you were thinking on the low end to increase participation? Thanks.
Aug. 16, 2018
Doak
10 posts
I think we need to hear from the SSUSA staff on what is the criteria for Major ++ and why it was assigned to the teams it was. George are you there?????
Aug. 16, 2018
SS11
41 posts
tattooball wrote:"Why wouldn't they address the real problem?

Take 2 identical maps. Cut Ca and adjoining states then flip the cutout over and place on the east coast. You will find that it is pretty close to east of the Mississippi. Allow the east and west to pick up anyone they like from east/west and no team will be dominate."


This wouldn't fix anything. This would make it worse. Then you would definitely have the teams with sponsorship willing to spend endless amounts of cash, could get the best players in the country and form national all star teams. You'd end up with the same classifications as USSSA has, with similar team quantities. USSSA- 4 major teams, 9 AA teams, 17 A teams, etc.. If you do away with regional restrictions (would be just fine if all players had to live in same state, or within a maximum number of miles from Coach/Sponsor, whatever). I would argue that those restrictions would help to increase competitiveness.

That is taking nothing away from teams building the best teams they can with the current guidelines.
Aug. 17, 2018
tattooball
752 posts
I disagree it is difficult to just put a major teams together on the east coast. I know of a major plus team that if they could get 2 more players and they are available could compete with JK easily. The problem is they have 2 pick ups already. Look from San Fran to La that would be 4 states on the easy coast. Back when they put these rules in Dan had players from Ca to Fl, Va and every where. These are best players in senior softball why not split the country. For last 10 years most of all the best m+ teams come from Ca.
Aug. 17, 2018
MurrayW
Men's 65
150 posts
Nancy, I had no thoughts on how to increase the participation on the low end. I don't want to sound elitist, but I don't think that it needs to be increased on the low end for tournament ball. Most guys just starting back up or having never played before probably are not that interested in tournament play and leagues are a better fit for them. Or local, non-sanctioned tournaments that would not involve travel.
Aug. 17, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
MurrayW, thank you for explaining that. Perhaps DW_7 will give us his thoughts on the low end as well. I honestly have not followed what is going on in the Recreational tournaments and probably need to become better informed on that. My goals are to always be receptive to learning about this sport that we love and to increase participation. I am sure that I posted this before, but at the ISA Worlds, it made me feel really good to see guys that I got involved in senior softball. Yes, I recruit "old guys" out of league play. Timmy used to laugh that Coachie approved of me collecting phone numbers of guys for that purpose.
Aug. 17, 2018
TAT22
54 posts
It all boils down to POPULATION! When your state, California has 39 million people in it, you should be able to assemble top teams, you have more of a pool to chose from. Which puts other states at a distinct disadvantage. The surrounding 6 states total population is 26 million, still 13 million short. IF SSUSA was to allow those surrounding states with Major+ teams to say pick up 4 players not touching their borders instead of just 2 you might have something. Just my 2 cents :)
Aug. 17, 2018
SSUSA Staff
2759 posts
Doak ... We normally do not comment on specific team's rating matters, but will do so for your team because you asked ... Pursuant to your request ... The "criteria" was as reported in the Official Minutes of the January 9, 2018 special meeting of the SSUSA Rules Committee ...
__________

Certain Major Plus Teams There are a limited number of Major Plus teams that tend to dominate competitive tournament play. Staff is instructed to help identify such teams in order for the Rules Committee to consider possible rules amendments to ensure more competitive balance ACTION: SSUSA Home Office Staff instructed to develop and implement competitive balance provisions as needed on a team‐by‐team and tournament‐by‐tournament basis.
__________

Based on that instruction, Staff evaluated multiple teams who were deemed appropriate for consideration, including yours ... The results of that analysis led to your team giving the "extra" equalizer this Season ... Again, we have no public opinion, but will allow you and the readership to continue to comment as they see fit, based on the facts ... Maybe we missed it ... Here's what your team did in SSUSA-sanctioned events in 2017 and 2018 ...

2017 - Before "extra" equalizer status
Winter World's - WON
Spring World's - WON
Southwest Championships - WON
Rock 'n Reno - WON
NorCal Championships - WON
Western National's - WON
Rocky Mountain Championships - WON
USA National Championship game - WON
World Masters Championships - WON (Triple Grand Slam winner)

2018 - After "extra" equalizer status
Spring World's - THIRD (in 60-Major Division)
Southwest Championships - WON
Rock 'n Reno - WON
Western National's - WON

Aug. 17, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
241 posts
As far as I am concern (I know most won't care) I don't see why this has come up, this team has not broken or even bent any rules. they simply within the rules have put together a great team, why are they being penalized for it.

If I was playing that age group, I would be targeting them as the team to beat.

I would also be trying to get on that team.

As for them have a sponsor, great for them all the power to them.

I can not believe SSUSA has created a special division for one team.

Don't like it. Not right!!!~!

Timberworks I am impressed that your team has done so great for so long, If I get a fake ID and move to your state can I play on your team.

LMAO.

Good Luck in the SUPER Major Plus Bracket.
Aug. 17, 2018
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2701 posts
Manny ... They are NOT the only team ... There are others similarly situated ...
Aug. 17, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
grayhitter59, I have to admire your compassion for a team that is not your own. Too many people only care about themselves; so this is a nice exception. Thank you. Also did you lose that fake Snowbird card? Have fun playing this game that we love so much.
Aug. 17, 2018
DW_7
Men's 50
10 posts
RE: my previous comments ..... SS may have a "AA" level but it's not easy to find & appears to be rarely used. I just looked at several major tournament results & brackets listed on this web site and I did not see "AA" teams in any of them. I don't claim to know everything; maybe they're on there somewhere. But it seems to me the answer may also be to actually start utilizing AA instead of having it and never using it. Accordingly, it seems illogical to add an "A" division when "AA" is so under utilized. SS is too big for only 3 divisions, particularly in the 50/55's. In SS, if you are a beginner, you will likely start in AAA, it appears. If you are a retired MLB player, you're only 2 bumps up from there. That's not enough distance. Major+ is a 4-letter word to most teams and I've seen teams (including one of my own) that discussed losing a World's game on purpose to ensure they would return next year to Major's rather than be forced into Major+ hell. My team broke up after being bumped up after that season. Major+ also serves as the end-of-the-line for not only players who "graduated" to that point, but also ex-MLB players, the exceptionally talented and others. Since you can't be bumped up from Major+, (notwithstanding the IMO insane Major++ concept) it ends up as a division that is totally stacked and everybody knows it. IMO, more teams break up over getting bumped up to Major+ than for any other reason. Then, even if you break up, you're still classified as a Major+ player making finding a new team sometimes problematic. The only teams happy about being Major+ are the teams who remain there year after year; everyone else either tries to lose, doesn't enter or waits to see if they will break up after placing in the top 4 & getting bumped. USE AA and/or add an "A" division if you want, but realignment to create greater distance between beginners/rec teams and Major+ will give new teams an incentive to get into SS and, if successful, give them another season until they are fed to the Major+ wolves.
Aug. 17, 2018
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1308 posts
DW_7, thank you for explaining that. You are correct that new teams start at AAA. I don't know how many are actually moved down after forming. I know of a few cases of teams that were moved down almost immediately, but I am most aware of what happens here in what we call the Midwest. I do know that teams from this area go to tournaments and often play AAA teams which is good for improving competitively, but often they win AA in a field of 1 - 3 teams. This is not much to brag about winning. That is the great thing about SSUSA; in their World Championships and a few other of their tournaments, there are more AA teams than those teams ever see anywhere else. I have lots of stories on this subject, but I know that SSUSA is the best for AA teams to compete in.
Aug. 17, 2018
Doak
10 posts
to the ssusa staff, you neglect to mention that we won the southwest title against a team who didn't take the runs and I think we came back from 8 and 5 run deficits in the last inning to win competitive games. I don't know if we can say we could have came back from 10 and 13 run deficits !!! Can you? In Reno, we lost games and didn't give the 5 runs to the Rebels. So, be careful with your data. There have been teams that have dominated for years and now this ++ rule is instituted? In 2017 R&R lost every game they played in Major+ tournies, yet we are the only team to give them runs? The assumption you are erroneously making is that everything is static and it never is. Teams get better and worse, it has always been the case that the competition addresses this issue and not somebody assigning a rule to try to even competition. I thought Major + was the last bastion of pure competition, guess not..... Too bad... What you need to figure out is how do you help the major teams "graduating" to Major+. I would love to be on a committee to help address this REAL issue...

Doak #37
Aug. 17, 2018
SSUSA Staff
2759 posts
Doak ... We stand by the absolute accuracy of everything that was written in our previous post ... We simply reported that in your last 12 SSUSA sanctioned events, you earned 11 wins and a third place finish, plus a National Championship and a Triple Grand Slam award ... Debating how you did it appears to be of some importance to you, but not so much so for us because Final Standings speak for themselves ...

We welcome and encourage suggestions for improvement, but nothing that has ever been posted on the Message Board has resulted in Agenda inclusion for the annual National Rules Committee sessions ... Written correspondence to, or appearance before, the Committee has been highly effective in the past for some ... Play safely and continued "Good Luck" in Las Vegas ...

Aug. 18, 2018
bogie
Men's 65
345 posts
Having friends on the team, I am biased, but Major Plus is big boy softball...I personally would like to see no border restrictions...no east, west restrictions.. and let all play even up. If someone builds a dynasty, congrats. Its major plus, and not everyone needs a ribbon. I respect SSUSA and a big fan of all they do to keep things competitive...but in my opinion, this is the "pro" division and if the heat is too much, disband and start over.. major plus to me is major plus. JMO
Aug. 18, 2018
Webbie25
Men's 65
2264 posts
TAT22-I did a study a few years ago as to which states had access to the most people for M+ players. You might be surprised. I came up with about 17 states that did not even border a state with a major + team. And another 12 or 13, I think it was, only had one team. That was at 60M+. But, guess which state has access to the most people. Tennessee! Check it out.
Aug. 19, 2018
tattooball
752 posts
Webbie its a whole lot more difficult than access.

Lets take a state like Fl. People move there to retire and live life. There are recreation programs for everything and seniors participating in everything,
Ca,UT,Az and many other states are similar.

Look at the northeast. Virtually no recreation programs at all. Any leagues around are run by private entities and there is not that much participation.
From Boston to Philadelphia there are 3 tri state areas. People have to commute hours a day to work. By the time players are in their 40 they are done playing. What little free time they have is spent with family. There still is great players around they just wont play. Between 12- 14 hours days at work and commute they just don't want to. Then you say Tn, that is a wide state with a lot of wilderness in that entire region. They may have access to many states but it is tough to be a team when you have guys coming from all over many alone to become a team.

Take Ca tons of great players, tons of leagues, tons of tourneys. Several different associations to play covering the entire state. And its a different lifestyle that is conducive to being active in recreation programs.


In the north east there in an entire month in the summer that does not have a tournament to play in. We only have 8 months to play and April is hit or miss with rainouts as you saw on the message board and Oct you could play n a 70 degree day or a 40 degree day.
Aug. 19, 2018
Webbie25
Men's 65
2264 posts
tattooball-I was raised in Michigan-I know about the short season and totally agree with your assessment. I remember saying many times I wished I lived where I am now so I could play a lot more ball. But that opportunity did not come until recently. Life gets in the way for some of us. That fact was thrown out about Tennessee as a surprising fact just for grins. After living in NM for 39 years, I think I know a bit about wilderness, too. There are a lot of places in NM you can drive 100 miles and not see a house, business or anything but scrub bushes. Arizona is very similar.
Doak put his finger on the real problem. Teams that get moved to M+ at 65 are unable to compete with the established M+ teams, and the path to competing means new players, and a different mindset. Most won't or are unable to do that.
Aug. 19, 2018
tattooball
752 posts
I do agree that classification is a problem. As you say in 65 most teams probably should be playing major. The reality is that there is probably only 3-4 m+ 65-70 and so one in the entire country.


In the 50's it can be easily fixed and again at worlds the best team doesn't always win.

So looking at teams in the 50s best I can tell there are 6 m+ in ca. There are 6 east of the Mississippi. A few more in other states in the west. Wa and AZ.

So if you let them pick up from east/west there would be a lot more parody in performance level of play. There is many good players in the east that could play m+ but no teams within there borders. Pick ups are generally the best players in the country. Leaving really good players playing down.


One thing I have noticed in the past that many m and m+ champions came from the west and many of the aa and aaa champions came from the east I think that is because with so many small states teams with great players just continue to play together instead of the hassle of traveling alone to get on better teams or moving up to play less teams.
Aug. 19, 2018
tattooball
752 posts
Sorry anther point. Right now there are several posts from teams in the east looking for players. There are some right now. I don't think I've ever seen one from a west team. I might not have paid attention either.
Aug. 19, 2018
Truthseeker16
2 posts
I hate to say it but SSUSA saying they have no public opinion is not realistic. You have teams in all divisions that are being favored and not moved up. And it is hard to compete against teams like JK inc when they pay players to play. You can't compete with that. Let's start in the Major division where you have a team like No Limit. They have won 2 state tournaments in different states and still have not been moved up to Major plus. Major plus tournaments suck because you have a few overly dominant teams like JK inc or in Cali Prestige. But you go to tournaments and there only 5 teams in the Major+ division. SSUSA needs to figure this out or they will continue to lose teams year after year
Aug. 19, 2018
Truthseeker16
2 posts
And btw there are 45 teams listed 8n Major+ and 3 have already folded and or boycotted SSUSA because of the BS. Out of the 45, 28 are California teams. Make the rest of the states step up besides CA and TX.
Aug. 20, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
241 posts
Truthseeker16, the problem is not stepping up, it is a fact in the east no one wants to play Major plus for the simple reason there not enough teams, our team went to Eastern nationals, we where the only 55 major plus there.

The ranking systems stinks, but i don't have a way to fix it.

Need SSUSA to start moving more teams up to plus level.

Maybe look at amount of homeruns hit in a game and if team is going over the max on a continues bassis, move them.

They have a ruff road with this.

I don't agree with the fact if you win tournaments you are automatically moved up.

We won a lot last year including Vegas, but while we won it, we did not hit one homerun over the limit.Now here we are in the plus division.

Aug. 20, 2018
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2701 posts
A couple of learned posters here have asked for an opinion on this topic ... Be careful what you ask for ... Here's my PERSONAL OPINION, based on 15 years of experience, as an individual and not necessarily representing the viewpoint of any other member of the National Rules Committee (although it's certainly possible) regarding the difficulty in populating the Major+ divisions ...

Many teams capable of competing effectively and worthy of being moved to Major+ will do anything within their power to prevent that occurrence ... Teams will "disband" and scatter, three at a time, to Major teams and try to wait out the two-year player experience history term, for example, or they stop playing entirely ... Which leads to ...

It was only ten years ago that ALL teams played at the single highest rating experience history of ANY player on that roster ... Initially, and erroneously, allowing five "out-of-rating" players on AA, AAA and Major rosters had an immediate detrimental effect across all divisions ... There was a phase-out in effect to reverse that mistake, but it was reversed/abandoned before conclusion, freezing it at the current three ... REMOVING or further REDUCING the allowed "out-of-rating" players would work wonders across all divisions, but particularly Major+ ... The beneficial effects would also be noticeable at AAA and Major ...

Although this has been somewhat slowed by the imposition of the 90-day "waiting period", requests for a Medical-based reduction in player rating experience history come overwhelmingly from players with current Major+ experience ... I certainly have no problem with SSUSA granting "legitimate" requests, but do find the top-heavy statistical reality interesting ...

Fire up your flame throwers ... I've got my heat resistant "truth suit" on ...

Aug. 20, 2018
softball4b
Men's 65
1107 posts
Many teams capable of competing effectively and worthy of being moved to Major+ will do anything within their power to prevent that occurrence ... Teams will "disband" and scatter, three at a time, to Major teams and try to wait out the two-year player experience history term, for example, or they stop playing entirely ... Which leads to ...Yep been on both sides of that issue. Played 2 yrs at M+ with a team that did not have the horses to be there because they left for other teams and been on a team that disbanded because they moved up. I do agree there are managers that spend more time on trying to get a roster to almost win than they do to get one that wins. Not my cup of tea, I don't do participation trophies.

REMOVING or further REDUCING the allowed "out-of-rating" players would work wonders across all divisions, but particularly Major+ ... The beneficial effects would also be noticeable at AAA and Major ...10 years ago the rule was onerous and did not benefit softball in general, 3 seems reasonable to me, but when combined with medical reclassification, a team can be enhanced for at least one year. You can't legislate completely, you can only try to find common ground.

90-day "waiting period", requests for a Medical-based reduction in player rating experience history come overwhelmingly from players with current Major+ experience ... I certainly have no problem with SSUSA granting "legitimate" requests, but do find the top-heavy statistical reality interesting...Completely fair. I am a advocate of pre-planning surgery and the subsequent waiver. Total hip replacement and total knee replacement has limited me physically, as well as just being an old fat fart, but the 90 day waiting period is a fair compromise.

There is truth and then there is truth, you gotta love that statement.
Aug. 20, 2018
the car
83 posts
i believe most major teams have 6 7 or 8 guys who are Major Plus and those few guys that are not are borderline triple A of the high end to a major at most. I give credit to those who are major plus a lot put in the time to be MP and stay at the top of their game and their are alot of majors who do that also. I do believe this is getting smaller and smaller on who we have to pick from and teams with a sponsor that can pick the best it will be hard to beat them. I understand it is growing right now and the last few years but back in the day it all fell when there was not a lot of teams we are now in our 50s when there was a lot of teams in the 80s and early 90s then a big fall off . I believe there is less then 40 triple a and double a 40s teams now and only 280 40s teams or so so majors and major plus has to be going up or ssusa is going to be busy rerating guys. I am getting old and will not be here to see it but it is coming. I am one of those guys who got moved up and should not be moved up do to bad shoulders but i am still out here and working on playing again i help coach only
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