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Online now: 0 members ; 99 anonymousDiscussion: Winter Worlds
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| Oct. 23, 2018 Im_always_right 3 posts | Winter Worlds If my team who won the World Championship in Vegas this year as a Major team and we plan on playing Winter Worlds in Phoenix, will I get re-rated to Major Plus or will I still be playing as a Major team? |
| Oct. 23, 2018 TimMcElroy 942 posts | Welcome to Major Plus. |
| Oct. 23, 2018 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | Not speaking for SSUSA, if your team was playing in WW then most certainly your team would be rated M+. If you are playing with a different team then it would depend on your age. If you aged up then possibly you could still play major. If you played for a younger age group then you could play as major. You could play major if said team did not have 2 other M+ players, in most instances it takes 3 to get bumped depending. If your name was somehow missed on the submitted roster then at some point your new team would be made aware of your new designation and then then chips just starting falling. Either way congrats on winning Majors, now easy to do at any age group. |
| Oct. 23, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Your team has already been re-rated to Major Plus ... And the rating experience history of each player on the roster has been updated to reflect that Major Plus status as well ... Good luck! ... |
| Oct. 23, 2018 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | Excuse me I meant NOT easy to do at any age group. |
| Oct. 23, 2018 Im_always_right 3 posts | Thanks Dave. New to the site and trying to get familiar as to what is posted. |
| Oct. 23, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | No worries ... If you have anything you would rather discuss privately and/or specifically, please call the SSUSA Home Office during Left Coast business hours at (916) 326.5303 and ask for anyone in the eligibility department ... They're pretty good! |
| Oct. 23, 2018 BallPlayer35 Men's 60 18 posts | Dave, I see that the winner's in each division were rerated to the next highest division. Will any other teams be rerated before Winter Worlds? |
| Oct. 23, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | All teams that are playing in either the Winter National's (Florida) or Winter World's (Phoenix) are being evaluated for rating adjustments where warranted ... I believe this process is complete for the Florida event, and not yet concluded for Phoenix, since the entry deadline is this evening ... The balance of the year-end ratings cycle will take an as yet unknown amount of additional time ... |
| Oct. 23, 2018 Im_always_right 3 posts | Teams being evaluated after Winter Worlds does not seem fair. This is a 2019 Roster event and before you add new people to your roster, you should know whether or not you are getting moved to a higher division. I will use the 55 major division as my example. Here are the top 5 teams from this past Vegas Worlds. 1st - Ohio Elite 2nd - WC Thunder 3rd - SoCal 55 4th Rock-N-Legends 5th WC Water As of now, you already moved Ohio Elite to Major+. Let's say Rock-N-Legends or any of the top 10 teams decide to play in Winter Worlds in Phoenix. Like all new seasons, changes always occur with Players leaving and new ones being added. If 5 of my Players leave and I replace them with 5 new players who are currently rated Majors or AAA, then we play Winter Worlds, they are on my Roster and only allowed one more move. Now in Jan or Feb when the evaluation is completed, you decide to move us to Major+. Your're changing the ratings of the original Players on the 2018 roster and penalizing the 5 new Players for 2019 who thought they were playing Majors, but are now labeled as Major+. This is not fair to those players or even the team. If you were to make Winter Worlds the same year event instead of the start of a new season, it would allow teams to tryout new Players and at the same time, more teams will be willing to play. |
| Oct. 24, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Please don't overthink this or read too much into it ... We do our year-end Ratings Review cycle after the World Masters Championships, and it takes a bit of time ... Within that timeline, the Winter Nationals (Florida) and Winter World's (Phoenix) occur ... All that happens is [1] the evaluation of teams entered in those two events (only) moves to the front of the line and the automatic moves for World Masters champions below Major+ are booked ... It's neither reasonable nor accurate to presume than any/all of the teams you mentioned, or a multitude of others, have somehow been ignored or overlooked ... There will be multiple ratings changes, up and down, when the process is concluded ... That gives all teams an equal opportunity to do their roster composition for the 2019 Season ... The SSUSA Season always ends with the conclusion of your session at the World Master's Championships and, accordingly the November events are "new" Season events, not something analogous to Spring Training or tryout camps ... |
| Oct. 26, 2018 socal37 5 posts | i read this and am kinda lost here we did well in triple A in worlds and lost guys if i pick up new guys and we play in Phoenix and then ratings come out will those new guys get moved up if the team gets moved up |
| Oct. 26, 2018 socal37 5 posts | so i see nothing on this so if the team gets moved up can those 5 be released and stay triple A since that is what i have set up to play with |
| Oct. 26, 2018 socal37 5 posts | or should we just not play till ratings are done |
| Oct. 26, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | socal37 ... For the sake of theoretical discussion only, if your team should end up having a rating increase from AAA to Major, players who play on that Major team will carry a team rating experience history of Major ... The same is true of players who played on the team during the AAA rating period which resulted in the rating increase to Major ... They will also reflect the new Major rating history, and leaving the team in an attempt to avoid that rating effect does not work ... For the "new" team members, the key word is "play" ... If you have players who are on the new roster, but don't play and want to go elsewhere, they will NOT require a release ... Simply stated, players accrue the rating history of the team at the time(s) they play with that team ... We rate teams, not players, and we link the team rating to the roster players who participate ... It's very difficult to provide much more than that since you are an anonymnous poster ... As we frequently do, we encourage you to call the eligibility department people in the Sacramento Home Office at (916) 326-5303 during normal business hours in the Pacific Time Zone ... You will be asked to provide the name(s) of the players and your team so that you get a reliable determination ... We don't "do" these determinations publicly or anonymously ... Good luck! |
| Oct. 26, 2018 socal37 5 posts | so is it the vegas worlds roster that would get bummed up since that is what it`s going by i take it not winter worlds |
| Oct. 26, 2018 socal37 5 posts | ok well thank you we will wait till new ratings come out but thank you for for your time and i know i don`t think very fast and i need to have a minute to think is why i came on here there are always guys saying you can do this or you can do that but on here i can come back and look at it. I feel the 5 guys i want to come with are not up to Majors ball and will get a tag for the one tournament they happen to play in and then be a chip once winter worlds is over so that is how i need to proceed and not hurt their rating |
| Oct. 26, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Which is why I advised you to take the time to call Sacramento and talk about your specific options ... The sense I get (and I am NOT part of the ratings committee) is that you are unlikely to be surprised if your team rating were to increase ... Why not step up and accept the challenge? ... Being in this realm for over 15 years, my almost inescapable conclusion is that the vast majority of teams have the talent to compete at the next level after a strong year, but lack the competitive fire to do so ... |
| Oct. 26, 2018 mck71 Men's 60 344 posts | socal - I BELIEVE that playing in ONE tournament would NOT affect those new players ratings (i.e. the 5 different guys that did NOT play in Vegas but you want to play in Phoenix). Based on what I understand, the players that were on the roster and PLAYED in Vegas would be moved up IF the team was moved up. If you were moved up the "new" players could be released without penalty as long as they didn't play with you in Vegas AND they only played the ONE tourney in Phoenix. The bad news is once you release them, they can't play for you again in the 2019 season. All that said, I would do what Dave always says in these situations, call the home office and ask SPECIFIC questions to the eligibility experts, seems like you have a few already written down here. Good luck! |
| Oct. 27, 2018 17Black Men's 60 414 posts | The rating system by SSUSA and SPA in many ways does not make sense when it comes to doing well in a world or national tournament (and an overall season in general) In 2016 we were 55 Major in SSUSA-----we were .500 in SSUSA/ISA events in 2016, finished 2-3 at Winter Worlds in Fort Myers with a short handed roster and got knocked down to AAA after the tourney???---------so several guys leave and start their own team because they wont play AAA the following year-----------we move into AAA for 2017 as requested, have to fill out appeal forms with ISSA and SPA to also move to AAA with a legitimate AAA roster in the other associations. ISSA is easy, took 2 minutes. SPA wanted rosters, scores, tourney results, head to head match-ups for a couple years, was worse than doing my taxes. Mailed an envelope with back up data that cost about $7 bucks to mail but the appeal was granted after about two months. So we go play AAA (legitimate) in all the associations. 2018 we finish 2nd in Dalton SPA 55AAA last month, automatic move up to Major? I sort of get it, but we only hit 14 home runs in 8 games, less than 2 per game. Finished 3rd last week at ISSA Nationals in AAA, we hit 5 homers in 6 games. That's not MAJOR to me. But we average over 20 runs a game. By finishing 2nd in Dalton SPA knocked us back up to MAJOR for 2019, probably going to follow suit and do SSUSA/ISSA/ISA as Major in 2019 because we don't want to play Major in some tourneys and AAA in others----------- BUT there should be more that goes into it than finishing at the top of a big tournament. We hit over .700 as a team but don't have the overall power to play Major and gosh forbid, what if we do well in another one 2019. Cant get elevated to Major Plus hitting 14 homers in 8 games. We can score, we single and double throughout the line up and have solid defense. But we aren't Major Plus and I question my own roster wondering if we can even play Major any longer with the losses to roster we had after 2016. I guess we will find out. We are a team of close friends all living within 25 miles of each other, want to stick together, don't need to go picking up other guys, don't want to, want to stick together and play over 85 ball in 25/30 years seriously as friends first and foremost. I mean if we as a team want to go hit on a Tuesday Night we send out a text and everybody shows up, most teams cant do that. What's the matter with winning a division one year and coming back to try to defend the title the following year in same division? Still do not understand how you knock teams back a division that go .500 in your own sanctioned events though, that blew my mind after 2016. If we went 0-5 in events OK I get it, but c'mon. GK CPOA Cleveland 55AAA |
| Oct. 27, 2018 TimMcElroy 942 posts | 17Black- I will step up on this one. I was the site director at the N. Collier Complex for the Winter Nationals in November, 2016. My observation of your team that weekend (eyeball test and game results) was that we (SSUSA) should give your team some consideration for a ratings drop because that roster was best suited for AAA. Obviously, my suggestion was given some level of support by the office and your CPOA team was re-rated. SSUSA doesn't force any team to move down. If you wanted to retain the 55 major rating, all you had to do was decline the drop. You don't have to fill out any appeals forms to get it done. A simple email to the office saying "we decline" is all it takes. We get a few of these every year and are happy to honor them. Your 2nd place finish at the 2018 SPA worlds (in 55 AAA) may have resulted in a bump by that association, but SSUSA doesn't automatically bump you based on that result. We'll take the SPA world bracket size and your roster for that tournament into consideration. If CPOA chooses to play Major with other associations without actually being bumped, that is a choice You included some ISSA results in your above post. Their roster rules are 1) considerably different than ours and 2) not shared with SSUSA, making it impossible to evaluate the results. For those reasons, your ISSA results are meaningless to SSUSA. |
| Oct. 28, 2018 titanhd Men's 60 638 posts | 17 black homeruns hit is not a true indicator of Major or AAA. Wins(team record),roster composition and run differential weigh more heavily than home runs hit. |
| Oct. 28, 2018 17Black Men's 60 414 posts | titanhd: Thanks for your comments and I "tend to agree" with you. Because if that was the case we wouldn't have been dinged in 2016? Tim, OK, I did call SSUSA in 2016 (George I think?) I asked about declining the drop, all they (he) said was "you are AAA" you can still enter tourneys as a "Major" but you are reclassified AAA?? The issue I had is emails were sent out to our team individuals, (bySSUSA) before I even knew what was happening, and guys jumped ship before we had any time to react accordingly. Our roster was then formed as an AAA team moving ahead and where we have been playing for two season in ALL associations. Tim, I am questioning the "eye test" because looking back at "stats" for 2016 we were indeed (2-3) at Fort Myers with one horrible game where we lost 26-11 to the eventual tournament champion in start of double elimination. One bad game or run differential may have weighed on decision, but we still averaged (17.6) runs a game, won a couple and the others were pretty close? (which makes titanhd's comment potentially relevant? I dont know if the Indianapolis Brickyard results come in to play for 2016? I know SSUSA is slow posting tourney results "on-line" but that tourney was 2 and a half years ago and still not posted on-line??(please do not say your stats were wet) We were (4-0) in that tourney and playing in a newly formed "6th Great Lake" when one of our players blew out his knee in that "quagmire" and missed two years of softball in re-hab after reconstruction. As we watched him taken away in an ambulance none of us really wanted to even finish that tourney so we lost that game and another and finished (4-2) BTW got home after picking him up in the hospital before a 6 hour drive home and got back at 2AM. Did those results come into play? It's "water over the dam" at this point, no pun intended, 1000 days ago, cant go back, just move on. SSUSA is probably indeed the biggest senior softball organization. You have a lot of clout that affect every aspect of teams and rosters. My main point moving forward is "why" does every winner have to move up? Certainly not a dynasty winning one year in a row? I think if a team won 2-3 years in a row, Maybe the deserve a bump, but again, why couldnt a team come back and try to defend a championship? I mean where is the Major Plus team supposed to move up to??? There are good teams out there that play "lots of tourneys" and do very well, who wont go to worlds or nationals in some associations because they dont want to get hot and move up. I am not saying I agree with that motive at all, but for the teams that do attend, its semi-sweet winning something big, and then realizing you may have to regroup and retool the following year, making roster decisions that can affect friendships for life. |
