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Discussion: called out

Posted Discussion
Oct. 31, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
called out
I was watching a youtube video of team Kitty VS mavericks in Las Vegas Worlds.

first batter walks up to batters box and wipes out the front line of box.

Umpire calls him out, never heard of such a thing. I believe, that is an incorrect call. I don't understand how an out can be recorded there. I think he can eject him, but I don't understand an out.

there was never a pitch drown, so how can there be an out.

Someone please explain?
Oct. 31, 2018
Chief144
Men's 70
127 posts
Playing Rules: 7.3(1) - OBLITERATING THE BATTER'S BOX
"A batter, in the umpires judgement, deliberately erasing any portion of the batters box will be called out. A second offense by the same player will result in the player's ejection form the game."
Oct. 31, 2018
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2561 posts
Manny ... Chief144 nailed it ... This was a GREAT call by the umpire and completely within the language and intent of the rule ... As mentioned recently in a related thread, I'll be introducing a motion to amend the rule (see below) at the upcoming annual National Rules Committee sessions in Las Vegas next month ... The proposal will be to skip the "out" and go straight to the "ejection" remedy for this all-too-frequent safety related circumstance ...
__________

§7.3(1)OBLITERATING THE BATTER’S BOX
A batter, in the umpire's judgment, deliberately erasing any portion of the batters box will be called out. A second offense by the same player will result in the player’s ejection ejected from the game.

Oct. 31, 2018
lb16
Men's 50
151 posts
Dave- Just curious I agree ump made correct call, but after watching complete video there were multiple batters out of box when making contact with ball yet none were called out?
Oct. 31, 2018
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2561 posts
lb16 ... Stepping out of the box is a completely different rule/issue than the obliterating the batter's box call ... A little more background may be helpful ... This was a World Masters Championships Major+ game, where the batter's box call can become an almost "batter by batter" controversy ... I wasn't there to see the game, but according to the umpires on site, the teams kept the "pressure" on the plate umpire throughout, likely being at least partially successful in limiting the frequency of the correct call being made ...

This video is also part of a series by this YouTube contributor having a common thread of promoting another competing association through illustrating the things SSUSA (purportedly) does wrong, especially at the Major+ level ... We're unlikely to attach much credibility to that conceptual effort ... However, it IS an excellent tutorial for our umpires to step up enforcement of the batter's box rules ...

Oct. 31, 2018
Omar Khayyam
1289 posts
I forgot about the seriousness of this rule. I was pitching in Vegas Worlds this year. It was the third game of the day and batter's box had just been rechalked. The batter stepped forward and erased the front line while the umpire watched. It irritated me and I yelled out "Hey! You're destroying the hard work of the maintenance guy!" Ump smiled. Batter not amused. I thought it was witty. Game continued on. I would have been happy with the ump not smiling but calling the batter out (ejected if Dave's suggestion is adopted) just to set a tone that rules are there for a reason. In reality, that particular lead-off batter did not cause us much grief in the game.
Oct. 31, 2018
Omar Khayyam
1289 posts
By the way, re-watering a field during the day is appreciated and sometimes almost necessary. Redragging a field is always admired by players and a sign of a good tournament. Rechalking is far above expectations. Good for Vegas!
Oct. 31, 2018
The Screamer5
65 posts
I know its a rule that has to be enforced as a safety related issue (so I applaud the umpire in the video), but ejecting a batter for wiping out the front line of the batter's box seems like a pretty stiff penalty. I'm sure some batters do it intentionally but my guess is a lot of batters are simply trying to clear a level landing spot for their front foot to land when striding. (I bet many hitters don't even think about it and do this subconsciously during their pre-bat routine.) My point is its very difficult to read the batter's intent. I would hope an umpire would practice a little preventive maintenance and once he see's the batter doing it, immediately tell him to stop! (as in a warning) Equally important as the enforcement of this rule is the umpires calling batters OUT who step way out the box while making contact with the ball, whether the front line is there or not.
Oct. 31, 2018
mad dog
Men's 65
4171 posts
well since all these batters are PO'd b/c of this rule....how about we let the pitcher get a strike as long as they hit the mat,regardless of the height of the pitch....seems fair to me.....damn guys..this is slow-pitch slow ball how much advantage do you need....we already play with the hottest equipment allowed....how about we only allow 6 fielders to make it easier on ya(batters)....the batter's box is there for a reason...just stay in it.....dang...
Nov. 1, 2018
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2561 posts
TS5 ... I appreciate your distinction between the casual "it happens" when a batter digs in and a deliberate wipe-out of the line(s) ... Hopefully, most umpires can see that, too, which is why the word "deliberately" is in the rule ... Here's a classic example of "deliberately" from the 2017 Eastern National's in Cary, NC ... Umpire asks me to come to the pre-game plate conference because one of the managers (Major+ division) had actually interrupted the umpire so he could eradicate BOTH front lines of the boxes, then graciously told the ump it was OK to resume the conference ... Hadn't seen that one before, so I told the ump to start the game clock timer while I rounded up the field prep guys and they re-chalked the lines ... I (erroneously) thought that would end it ... The first time that manager came to bat, he did the same thing, again with both lines ... So I did the same thing, too, having the lines re-chalked while the clock ran, and instructing the ump to call the batter out, which he did ... Of course, as soon as the game ended, the manager was at the Director table creating a huge scene and blaming us for them only getting five innings of play ... Go figger ...

Nov. 1, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
Dave, thanks for showing me that rule, next time I ump it will be clear to me. I really did not know it, I would have sent him to the parking lot. LMAO
Nov. 5, 2018
Kmac16
3 posts
The batter in question did not know the rule and has no issue with staying in the box. He was trying to fill in a small rut in the front of the box. Funny thing is........the umpire didn’t make the call until the catcher pointed it out.
Nov. 6, 2018
raiderman66
53 posts
Personally I have no issue one way or another with this however what I can't understand is batters going up to the plate's dirt and creating a huge hole. Why do some guys think it's okay to make a hole into nice flat ground? You don't ever see this with baseball and yet in softball guys go up there digging gopher holes- why??? Maybe I'm in the minority but hitting on a level surface is much better to hit on.It makes no sense some idiot who thinks he needs to dig a hole in the middle of the dirt. That's a rule I would love see implemented against guys who do that.
Nov. 6, 2018
HAT MAN
Men's 40
198 posts
Wondering if you can appeal your new rule suggestion if approved. I agree with rule except when the batter's box is chalked incorrectly. I been experienced countless times thur box made too thin. 34 sometimes 30 inches wide but umpire will insist on enforcing ut.
Could a player really be ejected when the box is wrong?
I guess maybe it's a dual edge sword. If erased hote could a director measure?
Your thoughts?
Nov. 6, 2018
neck10
678 posts
Use astro turff & paint the line's then no digging or erasing line's either
Nov. 6, 2018
g joe
14 posts
Think about it!
I know the rule and why it was approved as a (safety) issue.
I have umpired softball all levels woman D to mens supers or open division. I called a guy out my first year of officiating, 1991 for stepping out of the box. That was the first and last time I did!
My Trainer, who was on the ASA rules committee and wrote half the book, explained it to me this way.
Batter already have the advantage so if they want to hit a ball that is not a strike by reaching for it. Not the best of hitting mechanics, let the fool swing at it. Most of the time the boxes are not placed in the proper spot or the right dimensions anyway. When I umpired(don't do much anymore) I would brush the chalk with my shoes. As long as they touched some part of chalk, they were in the box!
If your worried about SAFETY do away with these Feakin bats! If you can't defend yourself don't pitch. And YES I do pitch.
Just One Mans opinion. Thx
Nov. 6, 2018
lowprofile
33 posts
Here we go again lol, been watching a lot of senior ball on you tube and noticed some batters have a bigger stride than others, almost all the batters line there back foot to either the middle of the plate or the front of the plate, some that line up with the front of the plate can still stay within the front line while swinging and have no issues, some just have bigger strides.

But one thing I noticed that is common with almost everyone is there BACK FOOT always stays in the same place, so....to elevate all this craziness everyone's feuding about why not change the rule to where as long as there back foot does not go past the front of the mat then they can stride as long as they want?
were only talking about maybe 3 to 4 inches when a lot of people go out of the box anyways.

I get that people will say...just start further back, but for some reason a lot of players like to catch the ball at a higher arc then having to reach for a short front of the plate pitch. I personally don't have any vested interest in this issue as I start as far back in the box as I can get and been over a year since I have been called out for this with almost 200 AB this year so far and not called out once. I'm just stating what I noticed by watching a lot of games on You Tube and maybe some way to help this issue as I see a lot of upset people in the next coming up SSUSA tourneys because of the awareness now.

I do not want to be banned from this site as i enjoy reading the goings on with our great game, so just know it's only a POSSIBLE solution to the problem, and I'm OK with the status quo, just a lot of people abuse the rule.
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