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Discussion: New Senior bat technology and performance insights

Posted Discussion
Nov. 8, 2018
Tri18
303 posts
New Senior bat technology and performance insights
Hello Everyone,
I am answering more and more questions on these topics so I thought I would share a little information to help you learn a little on these newer generation senior bats. One question that keeps being repeated is: Do senior bats wear out or just break? Great question and I have a new answer based on new technologies that most of the manufacturers have gone to. If you remember in yesteryear....you knew when your bat got REALLY hot and you also knew in 20-50 swings it was probably going to break! But those last swings FELT really good! Letís give Dudley the credit for designing the first LONG lasting senior Bat about 4 years ago that had good performance too. The other companies went back to the drawing board and quickly came out with similar technologies. If you notice on a lot of the newer bats, many times they donít ďshark toothĒ and break after getting that softer broken in feel. Soon many players like that feel and think their bat is super hot and it might be....for a short time. This is when the new information comes so listen up: Many players are now using bats that have become so soft (but not broken yet) and they love the feel but.....they potentially are ROBBING THEMSELVES of additional batted ball speeds AND distance because the bat has gotten SOFT (not broken) and is ABSORBING ENERGY instead of trampolining the ball off the bat. You see these new bats have different materials, lay ups and resins that are giving us more durability but depending on your bat speed and technique your bat may FOR YOU be worn out. Give the bat to a player with lesser bat speed and swing ability and it may be OK for them but you have worn it out. A great example of that was when my bats were compression tested at a National tournament and they were among the very HIGHEST compression of any player there. I know from thousands of hours of experience with every bat on the planet that when my bat falls below a certain level of compression (usually 190 or so) Iím cheating myself of bat performance. Now there were PLENTY of bats at that tournament testing at 160 or below.....(remember , the LOWER the number, the hotter the bat is......TO A POINT) There are even some new bats that break in extremely quickly and get the soft feel within 75-125 swings but be careful....bats like that will have less durability and will actually WEAR OUT quickly for ALOT of hitters. The trick is to build a bat that takes some break in time, gets to and HOLDS AN ACCEPTABLE HIGH PERFORMANCE level for a long time BEFORE getting too soft. This is the design and production technology in my new Worth Wicked XL and the new line of Miken 2019 bats. So....a little education is good for everyone which is why I shared this. Thereís ALOT more to it but hopefully Iíve explained so you can get the new knowledge on these new technologies. If you have more questions feel free to call me at 561-718-7504.

Alan Tanner
Resident bat Geek
Miken/ Worth Pro Staff
Nov. 27, 2018
20boy1
2 posts
This explains a lot. Some vender selling bats had a compression device and was checking bat compression for anyone who wanted their bat checked. I gave him my three bats, Melee, Worth Wicked and my $70.00 Worth Rulli. He advised that my Melee tested at 165 which he stated was the ideal number. The Wicked game in at 185 and was said to need more hits on it. My Rulli, which is my go to bat tested at 145. He tested this bat at multiple locations on the barrel. He then inspected the bat visually and gave it back stating ď if itís not altered, it should be brokenĒ. Damn if the bat didnít break at the next game. So in this case, the Rulli was wearing out but did not show outer signs of cracking. When it went it was fatal at that moment. Maybe more vendors should test bats free of charge. Might be a good sales pitch for selling a new bat.
Nov. 28, 2018
lb16
Men's 50
149 posts
Alan, problem is you're average player such as myself doesn't have a bat comp. tester. So we won't know when our bats are getting to the point where the barrel is flexing too much.
Nov. 28, 2018
crusher
Men's 75
524 posts
Lb16 a good comment.
This is a question l have. What is an average player?
My observation is someone that hits a ball 175 to 250 feet.
Sometimes will hit a ball out.
Played in and seen many hundreds of games and very seldom seen a bat destroyed. Have seen more 2 piece bats come apart than crushed.

Many new bats are purchased each year. I would be interested to know what percent was purchaseed to replace a destroyed bat or just to get a new one.

I do like to just get the next best myself for the fun of a new bat. I also do that with golf clubs.

C
Nov. 28, 2018
Tri18
303 posts
All you guys above make great comments especially as this is somewhat new information due to the expansion of technologies. If you want to sum it up, every player has a ďnumberĒ where a bats barrel flex can become a negative as far as performance goes. That number can vary widely depending on the players size, strength, and technique. Every player does not have a compression tester available but at least players have this new knowledge that can still help them. Some things to look out for and be aware of:

1. Bats that feel soft at impact might very well feel that way because you are not getting 100% performance potential out of them.
2. Watch ball flight and wake up if you seem to be hitting more knuckle balls than usual. This can be indicative of the barrel is collapsing too much and more surface area of the ball is impacting more surface area of the bat thus DECREASING spin potential. Spin creates velocity and distance. Balls that lose spin and knuckle regularly can be caused by too soft of a bat.
3. Players need to not just consider how a bat feels....pay attention to ball flight and velocity. Just because you donít feel that softness doesnít mean the bat is not lively.
4. Be careful of bats that break in extremely quickly, feel softer in 100 swings or less, and reach high performance levels almost immediately. This will most likely be a bat for YOU that will break down quickly, get too soft, lose performance, and possibly break quicker than another bat.

These are just some things to consider as everyone becomes a little more educated on the newer bats and newer materials. That being said, not all companies employ the latest materials and technologies which again can create lesser performance and breakage quicker than other brands.

Alan Tanner
Team 1 Sports
Nov. 28, 2018
marcster13
90 posts
I agree regarding the barrels getting too soft. I don't have a casual/slow swing so senior bats don't tend to last me very long (except the original Dudley). I have cracked a bunch. But I have given away more bats due to a soft barrel. The ball just makes a thud sound and goes nowhere. I give them to guys who don't swing that hard and the bat works quite well for them. I believe this to be that they usually aren't able to break in a bat fully so the barrel never collapses as much as it could. With these hand me down bats they still don't swing hard enough to notice the barrel is soft but get better trampoline effect than they normally would. Goes back to that saying "One mans trash is another mans treasure."

I will not buy a used bat from someone who swings hard for this reason. But this is why i like buying used bats from guys who don't swing hard.
Dec. 5, 2018
OZ40
418 posts
" The trick is to build a bat that takes some break in time, gets to and HOLDS AN ACCEPTABLE HIGH PERFORMANCE level for a long time BEFORE getting too soft."

Hey Alan, maybe incorporating some Viagra into the resin may help...Ö

sorry, couldn't resist interjecting some humor into an informative post. Keep up the good work!
Dec. 6, 2018
Mont25
Men's 50
5 posts
Interesting, I suspect your hitting approach has some baring as well. For example, cutting the ball versus hitting the center of the ball.

I tend to hit the center of the ball and have power, but it sounds like you may be suggesting that once your bat barrel has reached this soft state, you could cut back on your swing and experience good results.

Is this the inference?

Do all new bats have this new technology? Or are we talking about Worth and Miken exclusivity?

I would love to hear more.

Thanks,
Dermont
Michael's Auto Group Washington
April 19, 2019
Tri18
303 posts
Mont,
I am speaking in general terms. EVERYONE has a number and when it falls below that his or her performance with THAT BAT will decrease. Bats that are really HOT OUT OF THE WRAPPER AS IN IMMEDIATELY GAME ready are bats that potentially have a very SHORT TERM high performance life. You donít necessarily have to own a bat tester (which costs around $1200) to find this out. Please see some of the above messages. A majority of companies employ better technologies now that create these scenarios. Iím just trying to educate players so they can make good decisions.

Alan Tanner
Team 1 Sports
April 22, 2019
Fabe
Men's 60
401 posts
Great innformation Alan! Since I don't swing hard can I have one of your soft bats?😎 Hope to see U in Vegas...Hawaii Five-O 55 majors...Aloha, Fabe
April 22, 2019
tattooball
748 posts
Why don't you post the actual test data and give credit the ones that did the scientific testing that you are regurgitating on here. People put a lot of time effort and money into the work they should be recognized for it.
April 22, 2019
Tri18
303 posts
Kevin, (tattooball)
I do my own testing in both lab and on the field. The facts that I am ďregurgitating ď are based on my research and testing, not someone elseís. I donít and will never claim I am the only one doing such testing, but I post factual information based on my studies not somebody elseís like you are alluding to. I put ALOT of my OWN time, money, and work into whatís written here. Thank you for your interest.

Alan Tanner
Team 1 Sports
April 23, 2019
Paco12
16 posts
Sounds like a lot BS to me and another plot to sell more bats. Every bat is the hottest bat to him. I have a Rock Pet that I am selling. For you big boys that believe this hogwash, I will be in Charlotte next weekend 5/3 at Charlotte and on the 17th at Raleigh. I need a new (used soft bat) that you no longer want because don't hit the ball 450'. I will be playing 55M in Charlotte and 60M+ in Raleigh, please look me up. Thank you, Thank you.

PR NINJA OUT

Remember "If nobody else loves you, Jesus does"
April 23, 2019
tattooball
748 posts
A little late to the party this was all done in 2013 and it is odd the actual and specific wording is now in your banter.
April 23, 2019
bkb555
230 posts
why are you ripping on Alan....either buy his bats or don't....new stuff comes out every year...it's shiny, it feels good and it looks good.....same thing goes with golf clubs, cars, TVs and every other item we use....a little tweak here or there but it's NEW.....not necessarily better or worse but Newer....same goes for shoes and gloves and all our other "things"....I am a consumer and I like to see the new stuff come out....if I like it, I buy it...if it doesn't work for me, someone gets a great deal on a slightly used item...it is the way of the world....there are just better tools now to measure things like ball speed and swing speed and compression and distance and I am one of the lucky ones who gets to see some of this stuff work....like anything written on this message board, you can take everything with a grain of salt and move on to the next topic if it gets under your skin.....newer doesn't always mean better but I'm not taking any chances...LOL
April 23, 2019
mck71
145 posts
I have to agree with bkb555 on this. Not sure WHY we need to rip someone for offering insight. I first heard about these things watching Dave V YouTube reviews and believe Alan has added some more data for me to review.
Now regardless of where it "originally" came from I DO believe he has done a LOT of testing, whether he is the ONLY one doing that, I doubt it but I for one appreciate the effort putting it out in a public forum. And I did NOT see any "call me to buy your next bat" advertisements. Like bkb said, we are all consumers and IF we want to AND have the financial ability, we can buy the latest and GREATEST (I will agree with Paco that SEEMS to be the standard message) but what I have heard most from Alan is "swing what feels good to you" and honestly, that's what I try and do. Very proud of myself that I did NOT buy any of the HotW or new Addidas bats, not saying they aren't great bats but I decided I like a certain bat and I am trying to stick with it (and saved a few bucks in the process lol).

Hope you are feeling better Kevin, know last year was rough for you health-wise, hope to see you out there soon. Wishing everyone a happy and healthy season, let's PLAY BALL!!!! :-)
April 23, 2019
tattooball
748 posts
I'm ripping him because it's not the first time he's come on here as an "expert" plagiarizing other peoples work. I'd like to know what his lab has for test equipment? What equipment did he use on field? I know what was used when this study was originally done in 2013 both in lab and on field. I was one of the hitters on field because of my ability to hit line drives and hit targets at 300 ft. Macenko can attest to that, or should I say one of his old bosses.
April 23, 2019
tattooball
748 posts
Thanks for the well wishes but I'm still cripple.
April 23, 2019
Tri18
303 posts
Kevin
I hope your health continues to improve and you are on the upswing so you can be back on the field again soon.
Alan Tanner
Team 1 Sports
April 24, 2019
Bobby Buggs
82 posts
While Im not going to get into who's words they are, I agree with what you are saying Alan. We all love that soft feel but there is a point where the crispness is gone due to too many microfractures in the composite lay up. I experienced this exact phenomenon last week playing in Florida. I was hitting my well broken in green Adidas and I could feel what I call the bat "Over flexing".I dont need a compression tester to know what this feels like. I know that bat is now too soft for my swing speed and its time to move on.
April 24, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2527 posts
OK ... This one is starting to resemble a high school jocks' debate about who has the biggest and best "bat" in the locker room ... We're going to close it down now ... ** THREAD CLOSED **
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