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Discussion: WHAT DO WE DO WITH TIMBERWORKS?

Posted Discussion
April 29, 2019
DD
Men's 70
85 posts
WHAT DO WE DO WITH TIMBERWORKS?
The current Rodney Dangerfield of senior softball, Timberworks, can't get no respect. Their recent carpet bombing of an otherwise pristine 65/Major bracket in Vegas didn't help their cause...even though my team, 19 Hitmen, beat them soundly. Take that, Evil Empire!

Now, before Doug's "Amen Choir" rushes to his defense, keep these facts in mind: Timberworks is 100-17 (or thereabouts) when playing as a 65 team since 2016; their average margin of victory is 10 runs (when you drop the 5-run spots they give sometimes); they have won EVERY SSUSA TOURNAMENT entered as a 65 team since July of 2016; when they play against 60 teams (Platinum mixes of major and plus) which they have done twice, they are 6-5 with an average margin of victory of 7.2 runs and an average margin of defeat of 4.2 runs.

Players want to compete...I say, COMPETE when they play. Timberworks players for the most part fall in this category. After winning almost 90% of their games I know most are looking for a challenge. That's why I told a few of them in Vegas they will love playing and competing in the 60 age group.

They will rediscover what it means to play competitive softball...to take the field knowing they might lose if they don't execute well...to be challenged on the field...to get their nose bloodied once in awhile...to get that 'agony of defeat' thing going again...

The Twerks have put together a team that is too good for the 65 age/skill classifications (hats off to them!) and the most appropriate thing for them to do is drop down to 60s and see how they do. If they get their heads beat in...after 3 tournaments let them come back to 65. ANY OTHER TEAM IN ANY OTHER DIVISION WOULD BE BUMPED GIVEN THE COMPLETE DOMINATION displayed by Timberworks.

The way SSUSA structured the Vegas event for 65/Major was ridiculous in that it completely neutered the Championship round. By declaring ahead of time the runnerup would win the 65/Major title if Timberworks was in the finals, SSUSA effectively made the championship game meaningless...and as a result it was not even played. As expected, Timberworks left the ballpark as AZ Ancient was playing Top Gun Elite having been assured of another tournament victory and the lucrative prize booty that comes with it...are you kidding?

This happens to be an aberrant situation and the precedent has already been set by them playing 60s in the 2018 Spring Worlds and 2019 TOC last February. There was widespread dissatisfaction among the managers I spoke with in Las Vegas last week. Our team will not attend another SSUSA tournament without an assurance that Timberworks' results will not affect an otherwise excellent 65/Major bracket. That means Reno, the Westerns, Rocky Mountains, and Masters. That's $2500+ in entry fees we will spend elsewhere and I am not the only team to feel this way.

If Doug won't do it, maybe the true icons on the team will take the lead and do the right thing.

Rodney Dangerfield gets no respect, but he was funny. "Hey, I bought a waterbed...TERRIBLE...lumpiest mattress ever...I found out there were 2 Cuban guys inside looking for Miami...NO RESPECT..."

But, there's nothing funny about a schoolyard bully.
April 29, 2019
VegasBob
53 posts
Well said, as I've had the same thoughts. Our team (Sin City Stars) won our first two bracket games and were feeling pretty good. One more win would have put us into the semi-finals, but Timberworks knocked us down to the loser's bracket while beating us by 25 runs. Yes, we did not hit well against them, but it wouldn't have mattered because even if we scored 30 runs, they would have beaten us.

As for the $795 Worlds, who wants to put in that time, money and effort to get their butts kicked and moved down to the loser's bracket, which is hard to survive in a 630 team tournament?

WE don't get to pick four out of market players like they do, and it's intent to encourage more Major Plus teams by doing this has not panned out.

I play to win. Third place means nothing to me. I can't speak for my team, but I like the idea of knowing up front if Timberworks will be participating.

I hope this post doesn't get deleted like past ones.
April 29, 2019
titanhd
Men's 60
576 posts
Vegas Bob, DD would either of you guys play for Timberworks if asked ?
April 29, 2019
VegasBob
53 posts
Titan, for what purpose?
April 29, 2019
HSquared
Men's 55
47 posts
As with any business.. If you want to fix a problem, impact their revenue stream. Boycott
April 29, 2019
Duke
Men's 65
888 posts
Hey Gentlemen,

I tried to refrain from putting my usual comments about this situation, but after so many complaints on this message board, and at the recent Vegas tournament, I decided it was time to do so again. I was actually waiting to see if there would be any more unhappy teams. Every team I talked with was very unhappy about the situation.

To begin, when a Major team has to play a Major Plus team, 5 runs does not cut it, when the Major Plus team has 4 prime out of region players. When this situation occurs, whether it be Timberworks or some other Major Plus team, AND only one Major Plus team enters, then the Major Plus team should be playing as an exhibition team, AND they can have their first place awards. In a small tournament, you do what you have to do. In the recent Vegas tournament, that was not the way to do it. The other option would be to have that team stay home, rather than ruin a perfectly large competitive Major tournament. Give them their entry fee back. What teams did the Major Plus team send to the loser's bracket? How many teams would the Major Plus team have sent home, if they had gone into the loser's bracket? Well, what about the the hotel costs, car rental, and airfare? Given enough time, hotels and rental cars can easily be canceled, if SSUSA does not wait till the last minute to inform that team. Airfare is a different issue, especially when you purchase the cheap fares. Even with the cheap fares, you can cancel your flight and get a credit towards the next flight within a year for most carriers.

Since SSUSA will not remedy the situation, then it is up to the teams/players to take action. There are 2 major ways to remedy the situation described above. The first would be as suggested above and hit them in the pocket $$$$. You can choose not to go to SSUSA tournaments, OR wait until the list of teams is given, and see if there are 2 or more Major Plus teams listed. The problem with waiting, is what if one of the 2 Major Plus teams drop out. Then you are stuck with the same situation as this past Vegas tournament. As for the second suggestion, which would be a last resort, and I will not put on this message board. I did discuss the second remedy with at least 5 teams in Vegas, and they all laughed and agreed, but it would take a 100% effort by ALL of the teams. Honestly, I do not want it to come to the second decision, especially to Timberworks, because I know several of the players. Hopefully, SSUSA rethinks their way of doing things here on this subject.

Lastly, I have nothing against ANY Major Plus team. I am sorry that there are not enough Major Plus teams to play and have their own competitive division. I just do not want them in my tournament division and ruining the event that I paid a lot money for and put in a lot of time to enjoy. The other 15 teams in the past Vegas tournament are more important than 1 team.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but that is how I feel about this situation. BTW, I know in a few months that I will be playing against Timberworks. Please do not hurt me, because I am too old to die. LOL!

Andy Smith,
65 Major
April 29, 2019
Dbax
Men's 60
1884 posts
Exactly. No more need be said.
April 29, 2019
Marc
Men's 70
9 posts
Well all of these thoughts were expressed before the Vegas tournament. Senior Softball and a certain gentleman who represents them defended the action and allowed Timberworks to play and to win the tournament. Hopefully they have seen the error of their ways and see that this does not happen again. We will see by their future actions if we are dealing with honorable people or those just interested in making a buck.
April 30, 2019
grayhitter59
Men's 55
266 posts
DD First things first, the two Cuban guys bought the house next to yours and are looking to kick your ass. How dare you disrespect my heritage.

Second grow a pair, your to old to be scared to play the best, in my opinion stick your money where the sun don't shine. or take your money and find better players so you can compete in the top bracket.

Third don't you ever disrespect any nationality especially a Cuban ( you will get your ass beat)!

April 30, 2019
Dbax
Men's 60
1884 posts
Lighten up Francis. It's an old Rodney Dangerfield joke.
April 30, 2019
grayhitter59
Men's 55
266 posts
Hey DBax it's not funny to me, idiot.
I am proud of my heritage, proud to have served in the USAF and proud to be a citizen of this great nation.

So don't tell me to lighten up, I take offence to those kind of jokes.

By the way if you address me include your name in your profile. So maybe we can have this discussion on the field some day.

April 30, 2019
Dbax
Men's 60
1884 posts
If you had a sense of humor you would realize it's not even offensive. Thank you for your service.
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