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Discussion: SO CAL STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS - Womenís 50s Major

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May 21, 2019
Albie34
18 posts
SO CAL STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS - Womenís 50s Major
SSUSA, can you please reconsider the dates of play for the Womenís 50s So Cal State tournament?? There is no need to drag it out 3 days, when there are only 4 or 5 teams that participate in the 50s Major division. A lot of us are still working, and to take off a day of work for two games is ridiculous.

Womenís 50s teams - do you agree our tournament shouldnít be dragged out to 3 days? Please chime in. Thanks!!!
May 21, 2019
Patty11
1 posts
Yes, I agree. Please make this a 2 day tournament. Having 2 games on Friday is really a waste of time. I'm sure most teams would agree that with so few 50's teams, making this a 2 day would draw more interest without having to take off from work. Also not to mention driving to Hemet for three days. Please consider making this a 2 day. We all would really appreciate it! Thanks!!!
May 21, 2019
jo06
1 posts
I also would like to see this tourney 2 days as I will either have to take a day off work or miss the first day. Thank you for your consideration.
May 21, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2678 posts
We're all in Reno now, but here's the same answer as we gave earlier today regarding the SoCal State Championships event ... Deadline is JUNE 4th and we will look at the numbers for games demand after that date (we get back from Reno on JUNE 3rd) ... Thanks ...
May 21, 2019
Boo
Women's 50
13 posts
Yes I Agree. I guess we will wait until your return from Reno. You really can make it a one day.
May 21, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2678 posts
LOL! ... Of course we could do a one-day ... If we ignore ALL of the other teams and divisions, regardless of gender, in the tournament ... We allocate and share available games slots for everyone equally in the hopes of balanced and fair scheduling... That theory is not likely to change anytime soon ... Thanks! ...
May 22, 2019
LilUte34
7 posts
Hello, I am the manager for TKP40s and although this thread is aimed at the 50s group, I would like to agree that the tournament be made to a 2 day for 40s as well. Many of my ladies still work and cannot get off on Friday thus finding it hard to fill a team on that day. And to your comment about waiting until June 4th to see about scheduling...I think you may get more teams if you make it a 2 day event instead of a 3 day as my issue in deciding whether or not to pay the large amount of $ and not field a team Friday, thus limiting the amount of games we get for the dollar amount paid. I say MAKE IT A 2 DAY EVENT BEFORE THE JUNE 4th DEADLINE! Thank you!
May 22, 2019
MurrayW
Men's 65
149 posts
I still work and I don't like having to use all my vacation for softball either, but I understand it (it's even worse this year for me playing on a 65 team that plays during the week in addition to my 55 and 60 teams).

With a 5 game guarantee instead of 2 like a straight double elimination tournament, you have about 1/3 more games to play in the tournament. For 10 teams you need 40 games for bracket play and 15 more for the pool games. So if a double elimination tournament takes two full days to play those 40 games, you need the extra day to play the other 15 games for a 5 game guarantee. And as Dave pointed out, there are not an unlimited amount of fields so they have to be shared by all age groups, genders, and skill levels.
May 22, 2019
LilUte34
7 posts
@Murray...I completely understand your numbers and the bracket, but what you missed is the Womenís 40 and 50 bracket on average have 5 teams total, thus cutting your math in half. Despite a limited amount of fields thereís no need to drag those brackets into more than 2 days.
May 22, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2678 posts
BRACKET MATH ... Number of total tournament games required under the SSUSA 5-game and 4-game guarantee formats ...

ē Two (2) RR into Three-game-guarantee brackets = 3.2 times the number of teams (e.g., 100 teams = 320 games)
ē Two (2) RR into Double Elimination brackets = 3 times the number of teams, less one game for each division ... (e.g., 100 teams with 15 divisions = 100 x 3, less 15 = 285 games)

Our primary task is to allocate TOTAL tournament games on a fair and equitable basis across all divisions of play ... The most frequent mistake we hear consistently stated is "It's only a five-team tournament, why does it take three days to play?" ... The reality is it's still a 100-team tournament, and your division may be only five teams ... That, in and of itself, is not sufficient justification to (as was asked here) do it in one day, resulting in all other divisions of play being adversely affected ... IF two days works for the SoCal event, we will certainly do it, but that decision happens ONLY AFTER we have had an opportunity to evaluate total teams entered as it relates to available game slots at reasonable daily end times ... That will be, as stated above, not sooner than June 4th, regardless of how lengthy this thread may stretch in the next two weeks ... Thanks! ...

May 22, 2019
MurrayW
Men's 65
149 posts
@LilUte34, I just used 10 teams to make the bracket math easier.

In the 60 Major Plus in Vegas a few weeks ago there were 3 teams (but 1 team dropped out when it got to bracket play) and we played 3 days. For Reno this coming week, there are 2 Major Plus 65 teams and we are playing that in two days, but it is on a Tuesday and Wednesday and I had already made my reservations to fly out on Thursday because we could have played 3 days. It's too late to change. The thing to remember for your 5 team bracket is that you are not the only teams that are vying for the fields. I don't like it any better than you do, but it wouldn't be fair to squeeze your games in and make other divisions have to space out their games.

If I had my way I would like our 2 team 65 Major Plus bracket to be played this Saturday and Sunday with Memorial Day as a travel day to save vacation time.
May 22, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2678 posts
MurrayW (and other interested parties) ... One of the reasons we publish the Master Planning Grids is to provide a visual on both field availability and allocations ... Each colored box represents one actual game time ... Blacked out boxes are unavailable slots due to local league restrictions ... Jokingly, if anyone out there wants to grab their crayons and see if they have an alternative solution, I'm all "eyes" on it! ... Thanks!
May 22, 2019
TimMcElroy
615 posts
2018 SoCal State Championships-
40 men = 11 teams and started on Friday
40 women = 9 teams and started on Saturday

Assuming the entry numbers are similar again this year, how about the women start on Friday? It's only fair.
May 23, 2019
LilUte34
7 posts
All great info regarding fields, number of teams and regulations regarding when the decisions are being made, so thank you for that. We (the 40s & 50s women are NOT asking for a 1 day tournament) only ask that a 2 day tournament be considered for states. Thank you!
May 23, 2019
Boo
Women's 50
13 posts
See you are blowing everything out of proportion. We are still trying to keep the women's teams alive. We don't not have that many women's teams in Southern California. A majority of the women are still working and taking care of children. I am not saying men don't either. So don't start that thread. We are not stupid, we know you have to accommodate all teams. Since I have been playing the women teams we have be push to parks way out in the ten buck two, been at the parks late night while everyone else is gone, parks with a out house and nothing to snack on etc. So don't jump on the women's team. We just ask a question. If I was retired I would love to play all the time but I am not. We also appreciate last year at the state to start on Saturday in Lancaster. That tournament was ran well. Sometime I think that 3 GGG is to much playing. We are older now we don't need all those games. That just me talking. Like Pool play on the Las Vegas worlds don't mean nothing if 1st and 2nd is already awarded to the team that attend the National. What about the team that won the world, why aren't they accommodated. Riddle me that!! Gentleman enjoy your day!.
May 23, 2019
Albie34
18 posts
Hey All, please donít take this the wrong way...this thread was originally directed to SSUSA (Dave) and Womenís teams. And Daveís made it clear about the Bracket Math that needs to be done when he gets back from Reno. That is understood.

The WOMENíS divisions do not have as good of turnouts as the MENís divisions normally do. We are only ASKING to reconsider making it a two-day tournament and weíll wait to find that out after June 4th. The only thing about having to wait until June 4th is that weíre making a commitment to enter an expensive tournament with a possibility we wonít have enough women to field a team for games played on Friday.

For us Women, itís a bit difficult to field a team for Friday games as we all are still working, none of us are retired, nor do we have a plethora of players to cover the missing ones, like Menís teams do. There are obviously more Men that play ball than Women. I already know I have 6 women on my team that canít make it out for Fridays games if the dates of play remain the same. With those 6 unable to make it and the ones whoíve already responded they canít play because of other commitments, Iím gonna be hard-pressed to find players to cover on Friday. Iíll probably have about as much fun finding players as Dave has doing his ďBracket MathĒ to figure out the fields. ;o)

One last question, DAVE/SSUSA, can you schedule games a little later into the evening instead of stopping in the late afternoon? I think we Women wouldnít mind playing later into the evening on Saturday if thatís an alternative.

@TimMcElroy, with all due respect...having W40s start on Friday, ďitís only fairĒ? I donít agree. We usually get the raw end of the deal. Having something go our way once in a while is lucky. How fair was it for us that Womenís dates of play for Reno, back to back years, fell on the most expensive travel weekend, Memorial Weekend? We didnít go this year because of it. Unfortunately, we canít see the logic in paying the expense for what turns out to be a 3 team bracket (at best, 5 team).

Dave, thanks for all you do. We appreciate the work you put into organizing these tournaments. I, as a Team Manager, had to ask!
May 23, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2678 posts
Albie34 ... We're good! ... No worries here ... We will look at all options as soon as there is adequate data upon which to base intelligent decisions .. We're open to about anything, which is where this started a 1,000Ī words ago! ... There, I'm going to focus on Reno and do my part here for the "Bandwidth Preservation Project" (by not wasting any more of it!) ... Thanks! ...
May 23, 2019
LilUte34
7 posts
Thanks Dave! We will check back once the deadline hits. Have fun in Reno!
June 5, 2019
LilUte34
7 posts
Hi Dave,
Any news on if the women (40s and 50s) will be a 2-Day event?
Thanks...
June 5, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2678 posts
We are working on the teams vs. games demand calculations right now, but we notice there are NO Senior women's teams currently entered, so maybe this is a moot point? ... We believe we can do it in a two-day environment, but we would need to know where the 50+ Senior women's team count falls in the range of, say, two teams or 10 teams, before noon tomorrow (Thursday)? ... That data makes the crystal ball a lot more clear and will yield a better answer ... Thanks!

June 5, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2678 posts
NOTE ē It appears that we will be able to offer the 40-Masters Divisions, both men and women, over a two-day, weekend only format ... To date, we have NO Senior Women 50+ or older teams entered, so that part of the determination becomes moot ... Thanks for your patience ...
June 5, 2019
LilUte34
7 posts
Hey Dave,
Received the call from Tiffany today. Thanks for working with all of us.
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