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Online now: 2 members: TABLE SETTER 11, kcgerry; 80 anonymousDiscussion: How to score an out when a sustitute runner is on base wrongly?
| Posted | Discussion |
| May 24, 2007 Sisavic 190 posts | How to score an out when a sustitute runner is on base wrongly? A player was called out when it was his turn to bat and he was on base as a substitute runner. How is this scored in the "official" scorebook? |
| May 24, 2007 Freddie Men's 55 108 posts | whatever base the runner was on it would put out (po-3,4 or 5), the runner then would be able to bat if it wasn't the 3rd out. If it was the 3rd out, he would become the 1st batter the next inning. |
| May 25, 2007 DMac Men's 60 207 posts | It seems to me that the out would be recorded at the plate, not the base, therefore the runner would not be eligible to lead off the next inning. Question: is there any rule that would prevent a team from pinch hitting for the runner? |
| May 25, 2007 SSUSA Staff 3489 posts | DMac - The batter is required to appear at the plate when it's his turn in the order to bat. Therefore, the out occurs at the base he 'vacates' to make that plate appearance. Freddie was 100% correct in his analysis. As for your second question, the practical effect would be the same. When the pinch hitter is announced, the player he replaces is required to leave the game, and a second courtesy runner can't run for a courtesy runner still on base. Therefore, the base is 'vacated' again, and that's where the out occurs. Hope this helps. |
| May 25, 2007 DMac Men's 60 207 posts | It does. Thanks for the education. |
| May 27, 2007 BossBandit Men's 50 55 posts | SSUSA staff, you might want to relook your opinion on this issue. If the team at bat has a valid substitute on the bench(one who has not participated in the game to this point) he may be substituted for the courtesy runner who is about to come to bat even though he is on base. A courtesy runner is not actually a substitute in this situation and if the valid substitute then takes the runners place, not on the base but rather at bat and in the official lineup) then no out would be assessed. Of course, the player that is running as a courtesy runner could be re-entered if desired and the substitute would be done for the game and no longer available to play but still available to act as a courtesy runner. You need to keep the "substitute" and "courtesy" runners straight in your mind in order to figure this one out. |
| May 27, 2007 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | Umpires don't have all day to think about this. This situation seldom comes up because the players know that they can't run when their turn in the lineup is near. SSUSA's ruling, as stated here, would be applied. Give the ump's a break. |
| May 29, 2007 RonD22 Men's 50 26 posts | Boss..you guys with Florida Half Century opened up a can of worms when you put that new rule in. Everyone was fine and understood that if they had a courtesy runner on base when he was suppose to be at bat then he was out as the runner and than allowed to bat. Now you add another twist. I hope no one else changes the rules to allow this. Here is another twist if the so called substitute is not officially listed on the line up card is he allowed to be an official sub. In national tournaments if they are not listed on the official line up card filled out by the managers they are not suppose to courtesy run either. Your can of worms is getting bigger. Some things are better off left alone. Ron D. |
| May 31, 2007 BossBandit Men's 50 55 posts | Ron, That's not a new rule...that is an interpretation of the existing rules that are on the books and have been all along. You are right about the situation with national tournaments and the fact that the player had to be listed on the card if he were going to participate in the game. Saw that come up a couple of times this year. Cans not getting bigger, just wiggling a little to keep some of you older officials paying attention to the game. Sal, with the mat and the plate being live, someone outside the backstop keeping the score, what else do umpires have to do but remember the rules and call 'em as they see 'em. That does require paying attention, I understand. Discussions like this help us get better because it makes us exercise those brain cells instead of just doing 12, 16, and 20 ounce curls. |
