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Discussion: Courtesy runner

Posted Discussion
July 17, 2019
chico senior
Men's 60
102 posts
Courtesy runner
A group of us were doing what we do best last night - having a beer after getting killed in our league game. This question came up: An illegal courtesy runner is on first base and no one notices the infraction. The batter then gets a single and the CR is now on second. The defensive team now realizes that the CR is illegal. Can they at this point call it to the umpires attention and what would be the call?
July 17, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2527 posts
YES and OUT ... See Rulebook 8.5(5) on page 51 for this specific circumstance and the proper call(s) ...
July 17, 2019
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1252 posts
Too bad that I wasn't your umpire, out the moment that he touched 1B.
July 18, 2019
coop3636
383 posts
Nancy
You are usually right, but I think you are wrong in this situation
(correct me if you disagree)
I don't think it is the umps job to call the CR out when he is an illegal CR UNLESS the defensive team asks for it.
If the defensive team does not bring up the illegal CR, play should go on.
It would be the same thing as an ump telling a batter he is batting out of order (not the umps job) and the ump should not interfere in something that helps/hinders a team.
Just my opinion
coop3636
But you still can come to Vegas and keep score for us
July 18, 2019
B.J.
589 posts
coop.. I hope you never end up being the illegal CR because Nancy would be correct in calling you out as soon as you touch the bag.. and she would probably have a BIG smile doing it...lol below is part of rule 8.5 (5)

If a courtesy runner is determined illegal, he will be called out upon touching the base and no other courtesy runner is allowed.

If the umpire misses the immediate call then the defense can still make an appeal up until the 1st pitch to the next batter after they score
July 18, 2019
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1252 posts
coop, you are probably thinking about batting out of order? Yes, this is an easy call and the umpire's responsibility for an automatic call. This is why when I have a game, I make them call their numbers out. If I hear 36 twice that inning, I have a "winner". As a scorekeeper, I have gotten a few outs when the umpire did not get it. I really wish that I could come keep score for you. I am definitely a team player and was very good at it. My softball keeps getting in the way of my softball in an odd twist. Hopefully I can join the team soon. I really miss that part of the game.

BJ, thanks as always. I know so many people think that this is not an automatic call, but it is actually a pretty easy one. I know that how you track it is more correct than mine, but mine has worked for me and gotten many outs on possible senior moments by teams. I might not smile, but coop and I would definitely have an adult beverage conversation later.

I know that there is no way that this can ever be enforced, but every team needs a competent scorekeeper to keep them out of trouble and occassionally get them an out.
July 19, 2019
Wayne 37
Men's 60
600 posts
So if 36 goes into the game but calls out a different number they're good to go? Might not hurt to write it down for arguments sake. That's why they give you a line up card at the beginning of the game.

How ironic is that if the umpire doesn't catch it the VERY first time that they can be reminded of their mistake later.

Some of the greatest scorekeepers in the world hear a number and just write that down even if is the wrong number. I wouldn't take somebody's word through the fence and sitting in the stands.

I wonder why nobody ever does a batting out of order question?
July 19, 2019
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1252 posts
They have these things on the back of their jerseys called numbers. We can see these numbers. These numbers are also on our official game card.
July 19, 2019
Wayne 37
Men's 60
600 posts
Generally the runner will turn their back to the umpire to show them their number. A good umpire would at the very least say, "Show me your number" and write it down.....you know just to be sure.
July 19, 2019
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1252 posts
Since you are not an umpire, your assessment of what constitutes a good umpire is not terribly relevant. You also make a bad assumption that I only do this as a plate umpire. Often they do turn around, but I have this person called a partner, and we do see that number between the two of us. BJ is a great umpire and does write everything down, and I have always admitted that is more technically correct. However I have made the automatic call on the illegal courtesy many times including three last year and have never had the defense have to appeal an illegal courtesy runner to me so far. So my method works for me and has been effective so far.
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