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Discussion: How does a 55 major team who has their own 55 major division end up playing in a 50 major division

Posted Discussion
July 21, 2019
USMC21
86 posts
How does a 55 major team who has their own 55 major division end up playing in a 50 major division
Someone from senior softball explain to me and show me in the rulebook where a 55 major team who has their own division of there of at least 5 teams...Play in a 50 major division where we have to spot them runs we beat Vegas strong both games by four runs if we donít have to spot them and us being at 50 team and they want to play in the 50 division then they should play 50 rules that is total BS and we ended up playing 6 STRAIGHT games in that 90+ degree heat!!!! WITHOUT ONE BREAK and one of my guys ended up in the hospital last night because of heat exhaustion cramping and near kidney failure that is the worst run tournament I have ever seen! If a 55 team wants to play in a 50 division then we shouldnít HAVE TO SPOT RUNS. We beat Vegas strong both games by four runs if we donít have to spot them... if I was on Vegas strong and there was a 55 major division and we were told we are playing in the 50 division and had to be spot runs I would be embarrassed to be on that team! Something really needs to be looked into when 50s teams are playing six straight freaking softball games!
July 23, 2019
Jon44
Men's 55
116 posts
I am a member of the Vegas Strong team, but I do not speak for anyone other than myself. There are several points you bring up, and I will address a few so you have this side of the story.

We were approached by the tourney management and asked to move to the 50 Major bracket due to some cancellations to help balance out the tournament. It was never our intent to move and had planned on playing in the 55 Division, which is the one we entered. It was at the urging of the tournament management that we moved. It's important to note they asked us that morning just prior to us starting our first seed game to move.

We are a 55 Major team. When a 55 Major team plays a 50 Major team, 5 runs are given. This is the rule. The spotting of runs didn't seem to deter 4 The Fallen from kicking our trash in the championship game (congrats to them by the way-- great team, good guys, they beat us twice).

I agree with you that playing 6 straight games in that heat is not safe. I sincerely hope your teammate is doing better. The schedule, as you pointed out, really put your team in a bad spot. No one should have to play 6 games with no break.
July 23, 2019
Benji4
211 posts
Jon44

I do not believe 5 runs given is a hard fast rule.

I believe SSUSA lets you choose one of 3 options:

1. 5 runs
2. 11th defensive player
3. OR play straight up like real men

Any team I have ever played on regardless of age difference we chose option #3.

And yes that means playing against 40 year-olds when our average age was 57 years old.

I'm wondering can you tell me what it feels like to win a game when you are given runs?
I'm just not sure because I have never experienced that............

Benji
July 23, 2019
Gonedeep43
63 posts
Throttle Down Benji. Vegas Strong isnt JK. We dont have any conference players on our roster. So, if we are asked to move to a 50 Major bracket at the last moment. We'll take advantage of what is given. Has nothing to do with whether we are men or not, it has to do with age and talent. Playing 50 Major, I've never complained if playing a 55M and they take the runs. I took it as a challenge to score more runs. And in the end, it's softball, not life or death. 20 minutes after a tournament I move on with my life and get back to reality.
July 23, 2019
Trooper310
Men's 50
6 posts
I agree with Benji4. SSUSA should get rid of the age brackets so everyone can "play straight up like real men". Maybe just get rid of senior softball and play USSSA or ASA like real men. Maybe get rid of the senior bats, or better yet go to wood bats so we can all "play straight up like real men". I don't hear the guys from Vegas Strong complaining about playing several games in the heat. Like Jon44 said they signed up to play in their age group, and the tournament director moved them to a younger age group the morning of the tournament. They were gracious enough to accept the move. Most teams wouldn't have moved to a younger bracket.

July 23, 2019
Ozzy#1
17 posts
I agree with USMC21 that playing 6 straight games in 90+ degree heat is uncalled for when you schedule a 2 day tournament (Sat/Sun). Playing 2 Round Robin games and than a 3 game bracket to guarantee that each team gets a minimum 5 games is ridiculous. We had to play an "IF" game in bracket play just to get to our 5th game of the day. WHY ?????. It's a qualifier so there should not be any out of age / class bracket games unless there is less than 2 said teams in that particular age division. If you have not played SSUSA tournaments in Arizona you have no room to make a comment here. We that play here understand where USMC21 is coming from.
July 23, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2560 posts
Not trying to be "that guy" here, but isn't that games-load circumstance fairly common (like in every tournament) in the Elimination bracket on the final day? ... The leisurely stroll in the park is in the Winners' bracket ... And since we "lost" to drop down there, it's on us to climb back out is the way I've always looked at it ...
July 23, 2019
USMC21
86 posts
Dave, had we NOT had to spot runs for A team playing in a division they didn't belong in SINCE THEY HAD THEIR OWN, this would have changed our whole tournament! We lost to them in our second game by 1, which would have made us 1-1 instead of 2-0 and we would have had a different position in the bracket play....We won our first bracket game, then played Vegas Strong and lost by one 1 run...no spot we win by 4....then we played them again later and lost again by 1, win by 4 if no spot...again would have made us 2-0 in bracket play and in a totally different position with a buy and a break...instead we had to play again for a 4th game in a row with no break. YES I agree, you get in the losers bracket you have to play a lot of games the next day....THE NEXT DAY...but, they had their OWN DIVISION to play in and they never should have been moved!!! We play in uneven divisions all the time with one number of teams in one and a lower number or higher number of team in another....

Rule 13.3(2) MINIMUM NUMBER OF TEAMS:

A MINIMUM NUMBER OF 3 TEAMS MUST PARTICIPATE IN EACH AGE GROUP. IF ANY AGE GROUP HAS LESS THAN 3 TEAMS...LESS THAN 3 TEAMS....LESS THAN 3 TIMES!!!!!! (WHICH THEY DID NOT) THEY MAY PLAY IN A YOUNGER AGE CATEGORY.

I have no problem with them moving down if they are moved for competitive balance, (that's what I was told why they were moved down because they were too good to play in the 55's) then fine...no problem...but they should play at our rules if they move down! Whenever a Major team plays a AAA team in a tourney we always have to play down to their 3 HR rule and spot them runs, so if a 55 team plays in our division BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE 3 TEAMS AND A DIVISION TO PLAY IN....then of course we would have to spot them runs because they had no division to play in....BUT, THEY HAD THEIR OWN DIVISION...so they should play our rules...SIMPLE AS THAT. And you know as well as I do that a 55 team is not much different than a 50's team especially swinging senior bats! Something needs to change in the rule book, because it changed our entire tourney position in bracket play! Qualifiers should be played by the rules and teams not moved to "balance out the divisions" if there is enough teams in their own division for them to play in!!! WHY HAVE RULES IF THEY ARE GOING TO BE IGNORED!!!
July 23, 2019
USMC21
86 posts
sorry I meant 0-2
July 23, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2560 posts
USMC21 ... We didn't administer this event, but nosing around a bit, I suspect that it was the recent Prescott tourney ... Carving out only one team from a free-standing division of identical age/rated teams is perplexing and something I wouldn't do absent some pretty compelling reason(s) ... We regret that your experience was detrimentally impacted by that team mix ... Our contract Directors are asked, and expected, to administer their tournaments consistent with the SSUSA Rule Book, but that isn't always the end result ... The most common rule aberrations are in the area of improper equalizers and the 1-1 starting pitch count for divisions over 65+ in age ... Thanks for letting us know ...

July 23, 2019
USMC21
86 posts
Thank you for addressing it Dave, you have always been a fair individual...I thank you for your reply and seeing our point of view!
July 23, 2019
Dbax
Men's 60
1809 posts
No comment.
Banned in Arizona
July 23, 2019
USMC21
86 posts
Banned in Arizona?
July 23, 2019
Luckyonspade
Men's 55
1 posts
Congrats to the 4 The Fallen 50's Major Champions.
You guys are a tough bunch of ball players.
July 23, 2019
Rangview85
3 posts
Hey Dave,

Funny thing is, the 6th game, (5th in a row) wasn't played on the final day. It was played on the first day. Talk about reliving your youth :)
July 24, 2019
Gonedeep43
63 posts
Go play a GSL or Utrip Tournament that my 50M Team Stadium does on a regular basis. These tournaments are typically done in 1 day. 6-7 games played is typical.
July 24, 2019
Dbax
Men's 60
1809 posts
Gonedeep. Good for you. But this is senior softball. Big difference at our age.
July 24, 2019
Benji4
211 posts
Gonedeep43

Still waiting to hear how it feels to win games when you get 5 runs.

Maybe you can help me out.

Does it feel like some of these?

The feeling you get when you get free Government cheese?

Or maybe how you feel when you cash your Welfare Check?

Or maybe when you get a free Obama cell phone?

Or maybe even how you feel when your doctor checks your prostate?

Just asking. Help a brother out..........

Benji
July 24, 2019
Gonedeep43
63 posts
Dbax, GSL and Utrip run Senior Softball Tournaments. That's what I'm referring to.
July 24, 2019
Gonedeep43
63 posts
Benji, Not sure what your glitch is? But allow me to respond. The only thing I can relate to on your little list would be the Prostate Exam, which I'm sure you can also relate. Being a 21 Military Veteran and a Former Law Enforcement officer, I find that relying on handouts isnt my scene. But in regards to softball?? Which in the end is a game and not life or death. I'm pretty neutral in regards to the rules, I just want to play, have a good time with my buddies on both teams. And then later,time permitting, have a beer and talk smack. Sounds like a formula for a good life. What do you think?
July 25, 2019
Benji4
211 posts
Gonedeep43

I'm on board with all of that and.....

Always play straight up because it's about competing more than winning.

Be safe.
July 25, 2019
Gonedeep43
63 posts
Benji4

Copy that Partner.
July 25, 2019
USMC21
86 posts
Agree GD43...I know who u r and u r a solid individual...always a pleasure playing against you brother in arms both military and LE! Stay safe!!!
July 25, 2019
Gonedeep43
63 posts
USMC21

ABSOLUTELY My Brother. Always a pleasure. SEMPER FI
July 27, 2019
Player
77 posts
50 vs. 55? Hmm. Five run equalizer? Hmm. Can't really speak to the equalizer thing. Since I play with the 80's we take and give runs also. But, I can speak to the five (5) games in one day while going through the brackets, especially, when the temps are between 90 and 95 (and higher on the field). Went through that a few weeks back. Fortunately, we were in the winners bracket, so we only played four that day. And what was that phrase again, "play...like real men." Gentlemen, tack on another year or two, then come talk to me!
July 28, 2019
USMC21
86 posts
Player....I hope I am still above ground at your age...let alone playing ball...but, if I am able I will surely be out there! Hang in there brother!
July 28, 2019
L.Martin
Men's 50
47 posts
Had SSUSA forced you to play down from lack of teams in your own division, then yes I donít have a problem spotting runs, but seeing how you requested to play in their class then you should have to play by their standards, no run spot!!!
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