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| Sept. 10, 2019 AK4 2 posts | Batting out of order When the defense appeals batting out of order after the incorrect batter has completed his turn at bat and before a legal or illegal pitch has been made to the following batter (a)the player who should have batted is out. (b)Any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter's advance to first base shall be nullified. (c)the next batter is the player whose name follows that of the player called out for failing to bat. My question is: If R1 on second, R2 on first, B4 bats in B3s spot and hits a ground ball to SS who forces R1 out at third. Now the defense appeals batting out of order. B3 is out for not batting, do you keep the out on R1 at third since he did not advance and R2 goes back to first, B4 is removed from first and is the next batter. Now same set up R1 on second, R2 on first, B4 bats in B3s spot and hits into a double play. When appealed correctly do you have three outs and B5 bats first next inning? |
| Sept. 11, 2019 B.J. 1105 posts | AK4.. 1) R1 is still out.. B3 is called out and B4 bats again 2) yes you have the DP for 2 outs and B3 is called out and B4 leads off the next inning |
| Sept. 11, 2019 AK4 2 posts | B.J...If R1 is on first and B4 bats in B3s spot and hits into a double play. The defense then appeals batting out of order. B3 is out for not batting, you keep the double play for 3 outs, haven't you made B4s time at bat count even though it was out of turn...If so, why wouldn't you start the next inning with B5 leading off. |
| Sept. 12, 2019 B.J. 1105 posts | AK4.. No.. because B3 is charged with the 3rd out.. read C & D below RULE 7.1 2. If the error is discovered after the incorrect batter has completed his turn at bat and before a legal or illegal pitch has been made to the following batter or before the pitcher and all infielders have clearly vacated their normal fielding positions and have left fair territory on their way to the bench or dugout area: (a) the player who should have batted is out. (b) Any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter's advance to first base as a result of obstruction, an error, walk, or a base hit shall be nullified. (c) the next batter is the player whose name follows that of the player called out for failing to bat. (d) If the batter declared out under these circumstances is the third out, the correct batter in the next inning shall be the player who would have come to bat had the player been put out by ordinary play. |
| Sept. 12, 2019 B.J. 1105 posts | AK4.. 1 other thing I should have explained about your 2nd scenario (Now same set up R1 on second, R2 on first, B4 bats in B3s spot and hits into a double play. When appealed correctly do you have three outs and B5 bats first next inning?) to get the 3 outs on the double play and batting out of order the DP would have had to been made at 3B and 2B because you cannot get the DP going 2nd to 1st.. only 1 out can be recorded on any batter or runner |
| Sept. 12, 2019 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | Let me simplify this somewhat. The easiest way to understand a BOO (batting out of order) is to remember that you don't move up the lineup, you only move down it. In the original question, you stated the improper batter hit into a double play. Upon proper appeal, the actual play stands and the runner who advanced from 2B is sent back to their TOP (time of pitch) base. Since B4 batted in B3's spot, B4 is the next legal batter. If B4 had gotten on base, they would have on proper appeal be called out and all runners advancing would return to their TOP base. In layman's terms B4 is the improper batter thus he is ruled out. Being that B4 is the next batter in the lineup and you can only move down, they would be the next batter. Now if B7 batted in B5's spot in the order, upon proper appeal, B8 would be the next batter. Same situation applies if the B7 would have gotten on base as described earlier. On a side note, the offense can correct themselves by sending the proper batter to the plate with the same count the improper batter had. Defense can only properly appeal after the improper batter completes his time at bat. |
| Sept. 13, 2019 B.J. 1105 posts | wayne.. In layman's terms.. in all my years of umpiring I have never seen anyone that can annihilate a rule like you just did... below is a link to the SSUSA rule book please read it.. https://seniorsoftball.com/?page=7 (In layman's terms B4 is the improper batter thus he is ruled out.) .. WRONG .. yes B4 is the wrong batter BUT B3 is ruled out not B4 and yes B4 comes to bat again .. RULE..(a) the player who should have batted is out.) (Now if B7 batted in B5's spot in the order, upon proper appeal, B8 would be the next batter.) WRONG AGAIN.. If B7 batted in B5's spot upon proper appeal B5 is ruled out and B6 is the next batter not B8 RULE..(c) the next batter is the player whose name follows that of the player called out for failing to bat. |
| Sept. 13, 2019 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | Like I stated, you don't move up the order. You ONLY move down!!!! |
| Sept. 14, 2019 B.J. 1105 posts | lol... yes wayne you were correct on that part |
| Sept. 14, 2019 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | Here is what you fail to understand. Since B5 and B6 failed to bat in the proper order, you would have to declare both B5 and B6 out. You do not get two batters out at the same time on a BOOO. And since you don't move up the order, thus B7 becomes the improper batter and B8 becomes the proper batter. |
| Sept. 14, 2019 B.J. 1105 posts | wayne.. wow you just keep digging this whole deeper.. are you sure you actually umpired??? "what you fail to understand" ... is that it's impossible for 2 batters to consecutively BOO.. let me explain why.. if no appeal is made by the defense and a pitch is delivered to the second batter there is no longer BOO the team got away with it and no one is called out... AGAIN I posted the rule for you below 3. If the error is discovered after the first legal or illegal pitch to the next batter, or after the pitcher and all infielders have clearly vacated their normal fielding positions and have left fair territory on their way to the bench or dugout area, the turn at bat of the incorrect batter is legal, all runs scored and bases run are legal and the next batter in order shall be the one whose name follows that of the incorrect batter. No one is called out for failure to bat. Players who have not batted and who have not been called out have lost their turn at bat until reached again in the regular order. |
| Sept. 14, 2019 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | In your defense, I read this rule a while back and SUSSA leaves something to be be desired in their interpretations. Most likely their intentions were good, but in doing so they changed the spirit of the rule as written. I've explained several things to you in the past, but you've held steadfastly to your warped belief that you are the end all be all to all things rules related. However, I know that to be delusional on your part. As from this point forward I will no longer reply to any of your future posts as your sophomoric attempts at insults are banal, boring and chivy at best and lend nothing to trying to have a civil discussion. Time for you grow up and act your old age if that is indeed possible. |
