https://www.vspdirect.com/softball/welcome?utm_source=softball&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=partner

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 0 members ; 19 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: Idea for next years worlds in Vegas (or any other large tourney)

Posted Discussion
Oct. 8, 2019
coop3636
387 posts
Idea for next years worlds in Vegas (or any other large tourney)
SSUSA
Please divide each division into two groups for the preliminary games.
For the bracket games, take the seeds from one group and play seeds from the other group.
This will STOP teams from playing the same team they just played in the prelim in the first round of the bracket play.
We had to, and I saw other teams that had to.
This is not fun (win or lose)
We all like to play different teams.
It is an easy fix.
Please take this into consideration
Thanks
Brett
TN Connection 55 AAA
Oct. 8, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2599 posts
coop3636 ... On first reading, I thought you were referring to the "pod" structure setup, but then I realized you were talking about your smaller 27-team 55-AAA bracket ... That's simply not going to happen ... It's important that a single fully contained (non-pod) division seed globally and play the bracket accordingly ... About 10± years ago, at the annual convention in Tucson, I proposed to the National Rules Committee that the Director be permitted to slide a seeded team one slot up or down to prevent a re-match of a seeding game in Round #1 of the bracket ... I was roundly condemned for it and I'm hopeful, but not totally confident, that the laughter from my colleagues may have finally subsided! ... Moving even ONE team from a calculated seeding position requires moving ANOTHER team and is only the first domino to fall that creates a potential impact on every other team in the bracket ... Teams and players fully understand the purely mathematical nature of seeding, and introducing a subjective Director's judgment criteria is inappropriate ...

This probably comes down to what I often (respectfully) tell teams in any tournament ... "I am totally responsible for who you play in seeding games, but you are totally responsible for who you play thereafter based on how you played in those seeding games" ... Your suggestion, in my view as the national scheduling consultant, creates the potential for more, rather than fewer, issues and isn't justified ... Thanks! ...

Oct. 8, 2019
coop3636
387 posts
Dave
You misunderstood my suggestion.
Have half of the teams play in one group and the other half play in the second group
IE (40 teams)
20 teams in each group
A1 plays B20
B1 plays A20
A2 plays B19
B1 plays A19

You still play top vs bottom, but will NOT be a team you just played in the prelims

Just an idea.

Brett
Oct. 8, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2599 posts
coop3636 ... I think I did understand your suggestion, but for the same team balance reason(s) listed above, some "specialist" from at least one team, and maybe as many as 39 teams in your 40-team example, will determine with absolute confidence that your suggestion is unfair ... It comes to us as: "The other seeding group is just plain LOADED, and ours has all of the weaker teams! ... It's not fair to cross over us in the 'Goldfish' pod over to start the bracket against the 'Piranha' pod!!! ...

Trust me on this: Every team has a designated math major for advanced seeding AND a designated National Scout who knows all of the other teams and how they handicap out before the tournament even starts! ... Conventional seeding is preferable in my view ... And especially if you have a circumstance where one pod has 20 teams all at 1-1 after pool play and the other pod has nine teams at 2-0, nine more at 0-2 and two teams at 1-1 ... Those match-ups will result in a lot of "ambient noise" from managers as soon as the cross-over seeds would be posted ...

Oct. 8, 2019
TimMcElroy
592 posts
How about a 40 team full round robin so that nobody plays the same team twice?
Oct. 8, 2019
mck71
156 posts
I don't know I would go that far Tim, can't see getting that round robin done in 4 days which has already caused issues and also believe the entry fee would go up significantly as well, right? :-)
Oct. 8, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2599 posts
mck71 ... A full round robin with 40 teams only requires 780 games ... The largest entire session game count this year was around 550 ... Ha!
Oct. 9, 2019
coop3636
387 posts
Sorry to start this.
Just wanted to throw out a suggestion
We just like playing teams that we have never played before
We play the same 3 teams every tournament and it is nice to play new teams
Brett
ps.. we never complain about the competition, we just like to play different teams
Oct. 9, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2599 posts
No worries, coop3636 ... It's not the first time that suggestion has been made, nor the first time we've offered the explanation as to why we won't modify on-the-field seeding results ... To quote the Farmer's Insurance ad campaign ... "We know a thing or two because we’ve seen a thing or two.." over the years ... Good luck in the 2020 Season! ...
Oct. 9, 2019
softball4b
Men's 65
1099 posts
To the best of my knowledge teams usually do not play teams from the same geographic area in pool play. Results dictate seeding and any effort to change that opens the door to favoritism. The way it is done now is fair and what more can you ask.
Oct. 9, 2019
TimMcElroy
592 posts
^^^ BINGO!!
Oct. 10, 2019
NYTX
Men's 60
37 posts
We have seen the same thing, numerous times, that coop is presenting. 2 years ago we played the same team 3 times - once in pool and twice in the bracket, in a 30+ team field! It has happened to teams I play on multiple times. This year, our 2 pool games were with teams that were in the Rocky Mountain Nationals (same as us) just 30 days prior. They were from the same region as us.

Agree that everyone wants to play new/different teams. Having to play a team in your 2nd bracket game that you just played in pool the day before is no fun, regardless of who wins or loses. And I have been on teams where that has happened at least 3 or 4 times in the last 6 years or so. I'm all for anything that might help prevent that.

I can only imagine how difficult it is to run a tourney like this with all the teams. It's great to have this forum where we can express our opinions. Thanks.
Oct. 10, 2019
Rick35
Men's 50
72 posts
I would agreed with coop3636 in a way...if each pod has 16 teams (4 pods of 16 teams, for example)...after pool games, bottom half of blue pod goes to play against top half of red, vice versa..same goes for other pods...it did happened to my team that we had played the two same teams in pool games AND bracket games..
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Email: info@SeniorSoftball.com
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
9823 Old Winery Place, Suite 12
Sacramento, CA 95827
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts international softball tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners