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Discussion: TOURNEY CREDITS FOR RAINOUTS

Posted Discussion
Dec. 10, 2019
USMC21
112 posts
TOURNEY CREDITS FOR RAINOUTS
This past weekend there was a Senior Tournament in Phoenix Arizona....3 games on Saturday and then rained out on Sunday. 5 game guarantee @ $375 entry fee. When I went to school and college, 375 divided by 5 was 75, has that changed? That would be $75 a game! Why was the only given a $50 credit toward the next tournament when it should have been $150? Looks like someone made some good money on that tourney! It's things like this that give Senior Softball a bad name and referred to by many other organizations as a "money grubbing" association.
Dec. 10, 2019
USMC21
112 posts
the team
Dec. 10, 2019
Lokahi
62 posts
Yeah it makes no sense but it is the hand that’s dealt when you’re dealing with certain individuals. Glad we did not get in cause I’d be pretty upset about that.
Dec. 11, 2019
E6 in AZ
Men's 50
91 posts
I may have that answer ....
Did a very recent SSUSA Hall of Fame inductee organize that tourney?
Dec. 11, 2019
SSUSA Staff
2945 posts

ADVERSE WEATHER


§10.1(2) • TOURNAMENT TERMINATED [Rulebook page 56]
If, in the opinion of the director(s), a senior softball tournament must be terminated prior to its conclusion because of adverse weather or other Acts of God, the tournament will not be postponed beyond its ending date. Should this unlikely event occur, refunds will be made at the discretion of the SSWC executive board. In no event will refunds be made after two games have been played. There is no guarantee of any refund. Participants must realize that nobody can control weather or other Acts of God.

Dec. 11, 2019
Omar Khayyam
1336 posts
USMC21, as a member of a group that puts on an annual tournament, maybe I can give some insight to your question. A rainout after a Saturday of play is a common occurrence but a tough situation for the tournament director and/or the group hosting the tournament.

1. Transportation for umpires has already been paid.
2. Two nights housing may have already been paid (especially if tourney not cancelled until Sunday, hoping for better weather).
3. The umps may have been guaranteed a set fee as salary (and turned down umpiring options at other sites with no rain).
4. The fields are likely booked exclusively for the weekend with no refunds from city.
5. The food and beverage options are also likely booked for weekend with no/partial only refunds from vendors.
6. Auxiliary workers (field prep, security, maintenance, etc.) may also be contracted for full weekend pay.
7. Housing for players may have discounts offered/subsidized by TD and expect full nights stay.
8. Costs for prizes have already been paid and figured in to the budget and expected income.
9. Etc.

But you get the point. Few, if any, of the support functions for a tournament are based on per game costs that can be rescinded or refunded if weather closes the tournament. That's why the SSUSA rules are so specific and comprehensive. You should see the headache if the tournament has to be cancelled before Tournament entry fees are all received and everyone wants their money completely refunded. This often results in a Tournament host taking a financial hit. ANY return of monies, even a partial refund, is usually a loss for the Tournament hosts and TD.
Dec. 11, 2019
lowprofile
56 posts
Omar,
you know where this is going next right? I personally could care less about getting a refund, I don't think I've ever got money back from any of my coaches after a rain out? And if I played 3 games Saturday, I'm totally good with that! we all grew up playing U-trip or ASA and you know how that worked...out in two and BBQ!

But as for your list, people are gonna say PARENTHESIS is the key here (....)

1) Transportation for umpires (PLAYERS) has already been paid.

2) Two nights housing may have already been paid (by the PLAYERS) especially if tourney not cancelled until Sunday, hoping for better weather.

3) The umps may have been guaranteed a set fee as salary and turned down (PLAYERS PLAYING) umpiring options at other sites with no rain.

4) No dispute there.

5) The food and beverage options are also likely booked for weekend with no/partial only refunds from vendors. (NOT SURE ABOUT THAT AS THAT STUFFS PRETTY CHEAP)

6)Auxiliary workers (field prep, security, maintenance, etc.) may also be contracted for full weekend pay. (I'M THINKING THAT STUFF IS INCLUDED WHEN YOU RENT THE FIELDS BY THE CITY? I COULD BE WRONG? SECURITY? LOL)

7) Housing for players may have discounts offered/subsidized by TD and expect full nights stay. (THINKING THAT STUFF IS OFFERED BY THE HOTELS NOT THE TD'S AS THEY WANT THE BUSINESS, BUT I COULD BE WRONG?

8) Costs for prizes have already been paid and figured in to the budget and expected income. ( WELL HECK NOT GONNA GET INTO THAT AS IT'S A CHEESY SUBJECT HAHA)

Anyways I have no problem with not getting a refund especially after getting 3 games in, what everyone's gonna get 10 bucks? lol keep it and maybe go towards better prizes in the future? I only wrote above because you know it's coming.
Dec. 12, 2019
Omar Khayyam
1336 posts
lowprofile, I like your attitude. I, too, expect no refund if I get in three games on Saturday and Mother Nature ends the tournament. I'm more interested in the situation when I drive 2 hours on a Saturday morning for the first game and find the tournament cancelled...especially if it was cancelled on Friday night! A rain line recording solves that but few TD seem to have it ready.

But despite the tournament expenses that players may not get back, the point is: where is the money to come from to reimburse the tournament fees when half a tournament is already played and guaranteed expenses must still be paid?

In any event, I think you are a Californian yourself and we Californians are soooo lucky to have a climate where rainouts from April through October are almost non-existent, and I, for one, am still playing three league games a week with only one rainout since September. I really feel for guys who are already shut down until spring ball begins.
Dec. 12, 2019
curveball
Men's 65
671 posts
Funny stuff there E6 in AZ
Dec. 12, 2019
Wood_1966
Men's 50
104 posts
I get the point there are sunk and often non-refundable costs associated with running these tournaments, but that is the risk the tournament organizer should understand. I am sure that at the end of the day, they are not putting these tournaments on for simply God and Country. This is a business venture to fund SSUSA and the local senior softball association. The fact that, if you use the word GUARANTEE in your tournament solicitation and then turn around and do not deliver on that so-called guarantee that is a problem, unless you make the people who paid for entry whole via a pro-rated refund. People are so worried about the organization that set up the tournament taking a financial hit, no one is worries that even if a full refund was issued to every team, most of the players are taking a nice hit on their travel costs. Do not hide behind "at the end of the day we are a business" and the do not run it like a business. Because at the end of the day, if I guarantee something in my business and do not deliver, the federal government fines me millions of dollars!
Dec. 12, 2019
lowprofile
56 posts
Omar,
Well said sir! both you and WOOD_1966 touched on something I didn't think about...THE GUARANTEE THING? they do state 5 game guarantee! alright I want my money back! lol just kidding, but yes they do say that, so maybe they should word it a little different?

And yes I am in So. cal. and you are correct we almost get to play year round, but last year playing Hemet tourneys I think we missed 4 straight months for the first time that I can remember missing that much. Anyways don't want to cause any waves here just wanted to address both sides guys! Have a great new season guys.
Dec. 13, 2019
E6 in AZ
Men's 50
91 posts
Thanks Curveball,
Kinda disappointed DBAX hasn't hit this board.
Dec. 13, 2019
Dbax
Men's 60
1879 posts
I'm being good for Santa.
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