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Discussion: Running lane violation

Posted Discussion
April 6, 2020
Wayne 37
Men's 65
703 posts
Running lane violation
8.3 • BATTER-RUNNER IS OUT
D. When he RUNS OUTSIDE THE RUNNING LANE and, in the umpire’s judgment, interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base...

Could somebody at the SSUSA home office verify what constitutes the B/R being out of the running lane, i.e. generally speaking where B/R's feet must be? I would say the WHOLE of both feet must be within the lane [as in touching the lines, no partially outside] to be considered INSIDE the lane.

Also, as for the throw, what type quality of throw is required? By type quality I mean how good does the throw have to be? EXAMPLE: Fielder picks up ground ball and throws the ball 10 feet over the head of the person covering 1B.
April 6, 2020
lb16
Men's 50
157 posts
I would think to get an better explanation of the rule you will need to put a scenario. As in all judgement calls the actual play needs to be listed for an accurate explanation, there are different scenarios that would have different answers.
April 6, 2020
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2746 posts
This ought to be an interestng theoretical discussion to watch ... In almost 20 years as a Director for SSUSA, the total number of facilities where I have seen a running lane chalked in for the field specifications is very likely ZERO ... It's pretty much the "..I know it when I see it.." quote made famous by Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart in Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964) ... Have fun!

April 6, 2020
Wayne 37
Men's 65
703 posts
There really is no theory involved. I do know that some rulesets and/or skills level vary somewhat in their interpretations as to the quality of the throw has to be.

Pretending there are lines drawn, I would have the B/R's whole of each foot on the line or inside to be considered in the running lane.

NO PART OF EITHER FOOT CAN BE TOUCHING OUTSIDE OF THE LINES.

The throw should be that F3 would have a reasonable chance to catch the throw and not air mailed down into the right field corner. I would allow somewhat as to how the fielder had to adjust their throw depending on the B/R's actions. What I mean by that is, what did the fielder have to do to avoid hitting the B/R with the throw.

However, I don't think I would enforce a running lane violation if F3 tried to use the orange bag. I would also venture to say that all throws would come from fair territory since there is no dropped third strike.
April 6, 2020
B.J.
697 posts
welocme back to WAYNES' WORLD of RULES...

where does it state in the rule that.. (NO PART OF EITHER FOOT CAN BE TOUCHING OUTSIDE OF THE LINES)

as far as F3 using the orange bag.. 1) the rule states the runner can either go to the white bag or that they don't have to touch the bag at all in order to avoid a collision

2) F3 in not allowed to use only the orange bag to record an out
April 6, 2020
NYGNYY
136 posts
I hope everyone and your families are safe. As noted I have too much time on my hands and just adding to a base running discussion. My concern has never been the lane to first...not an issue IMO. However playing SS and turning a DP and the runner from 1st not getting out of the way or sliding...that's more of an issue. Each time the ump says I have to throw the ball for it to be called. I will not throw the ball at 65M and hit a person for that call. Why the ump's just can't make a judgement call is beyond my pay grade. Thanks!
April 6, 2020
B.J.
697 posts
NYGNYY.. a fielder does not have to make a throw for an out to be called... "IF" in the umpires judgement the runner interferred with the defensive player making the throw...

that being said if you recored an out at 2nd base and the runner remains in the base path and no contact is made that is not obstruction on the runner.. he does not have to duck or veer out of the base path he is where he belongs .. it is up to the defense to throw around or over the runner

April 6, 2020
TimMcElroy
674 posts
And just like that, I am whispering to myself again.
April 6, 2020
Wayne 37
Men's 65
703 posts
I knew exactly what you were going to say...………..and you did.

I asked for verification. Never did I state that anything was chiseled in stone. The B/R is either in the lane or not in the lane. There is no give and take. There is no theory involved. (WHERE DOES IT STATE SOME PART OF THE FOOT CAN BE OUTSIDE THE LINE) Did these five words escape you? RUNS OUTSIDE THE RUNNING LANE.

So can/will you tell us what constitutes being IN and not OUTSIDE the running lane? Better yet, tell us what you deem as a quality throw or if one is required. If challenged by either the offense or defense are you going to shrug your shoulders and say, "I dunno."?

These are very simple to answer questions. Tag. You're it.
April 6, 2020
B.J.
697 posts
Tim, lol.. they do make meds for that .. btw.. it's ok to whisper to yourself as long as you don't start answering yourself
April 6, 2020
DieselDan
Men's 70
376 posts
Maybe it's time to have those lines put down at the larger tournaments. One of the problems I've seen for years, especially with one umpire, is they are spending too much time ball watching instead of watching what's happening on the base paths. Even with two umps, you have many base umpires watching the ball. Even with a deep fly ball, there's time to take a quick look at a base runner touching the bag, or to see if the batter touched first or was interfered with going around first. Usually the only time a base umpire has to watch the ball is to help out on a sinking line drive. If the plate umpire sees the base umps back, with runners on the bases, they must check for tags.
April 8, 2020
Wayne 37
Men's 65
703 posts
Dan,

It would be nice that the field was lined properly since rubbing out the lines of the batter's box results in an automatic ejection. From what I've gathered I see that if this call is ever made, some TD or UIC is called down to a field in the middle of a huge tournament, will it ever be brought up. What's the point of having a rule if they haven't got anyone that knows how to even remotely enforce it.

Face it. When it comes to umpiring, they generally take what they can get to do these games. BJ the DA couldn't, even if he tried, answer the two simple questions I posed to him. But, according to his gal pal, he is da' bomb though. What an endorsement. LMAO

Hopefully, this virus thing will phase itself out soon and people can get back to some sort of a normal life if that's ever possible.

Stay safe and stay home.
April 8, 2020
Wayne 37
Men's 65
703 posts
Sorry guys.It would be nice to have a rules discussion without his ridiculous comments for once. I quit one forum because I was tired of his childlike trolling. Worse there were more Smitties just like him. He comes in small doses here thank goodness.
April 10, 2020
jimperry19
44 posts
What you should be sorry about is that 2 'grown' men turn most of the discussions on this board into name calling and a 'who's got the biggest dick contest' until SSUSA eventually has to shut down the post and the person who asked the original question never gets their answer. I am surprised that SSUSA gives either of you as much rope as they do, especially your 'crypronite' who seems to be able to say whatever he wants with no repercusions. The whole thing is both childish and annoying.
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