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Discussion: Player IDís

Posted Discussion
Aug. 20, 2020
Papajoe56
Men's 60
66 posts
Player IDís
With the World Masters coming up in September... Why canít SSUSA check players registration cards prior to the start of the tournament? I know we have to social distance, but when players sign the waiver, the coach should present each players card to the tournament Director to check off the names on the official roster. At the Western Nationals, it was obvious teams were picking up players at the tournament prior to game time. I would feel more confident teams are playing fair.
Aug. 20, 2020
Ollie4
Men's 60
6 posts
Papajoe56, Could you expand on how it was obvious...? maybe others could take advantage of your observation skills?. Also, if you were sure this was going on, why did you not alert an onsite director.
Aug. 20, 2020
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3777 posts
Ollie4 ... Because it didn't happen the way he surmises ... He apparently does not understand the new procedures in place to respect Social Distancing requirements ... Game cards are turned in from the umpires after each game and are used as the basis for highlighting on the rosters those who played ... It's also known as checking in ... Managers are solely responsible (and NOT given any slack) to accurately record player names on those game cards ...

Aug. 21, 2020
Papajoe56
Men's 60
66 posts
With all due respect Dave, my summary is accurate and I do understand the new guidelines. The problem is that anyone can sign a waiver and fill out a game card prior to each game with names, and sign the game card after each game... however, its just a name on a card. The concern I'm addressing is the name on the waiver and game card actually the player on the field. I know its left up to the Manager to honestly record player names on the game card, but when you play a team multiple times and each time they have different players and those players have different jerseys (from another team that just played) then its obvious and they were just picked up for the game. We didn't alert anyone because we were just happy to be playing and appreciate everything SSUSA has done to allow us to play. I'm not trying to create an issue here, I'm just asking why cant the waiver be submitted with the player cards when the manager presets it to the Tournament Director prior to the start of the 1st game.
Aug. 21, 2020
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3777 posts
If your summary is accurate, and it appears you are confident it is, then we would ask that you follow up with us so we can investigate any abuses that may have affected competition in your division ... If your premise is an actual allegation of wrongdoing you can support factually, we are certainly interested in looking into it further ...Please contact us and provide verifiable factual incidents that would allow us to investigate and take whatever remedial and/or punitive action we would determine to be appropriate ... If, however, this is a theoretical exercise on how you think a team can cheat and beat the system, thanks for your insights and we'll "take it under advisement" ...

Aug. 21, 2020
Papajoe56
Men's 60
66 posts
Dave, as I stated previously, I'm not trying to create an issue and we are appreciative of SSUSA's efforts to allow us to play. I was only proposing a process change that would provide a bit more assurance that every team was playing by the rules. I don't think there's anything to gain by naming names and reporting the wrongdoing... I'm sure the facts would reveal the Game Card reflects everyone is on the team roster. Why would a coach put an illegal player's name on the Game Card? The only way to catch the wrongdoing is to stop play, request player cards, and compare them to the team roster. The only time I would personally go this far is if it was a game that mattered. We are just happy to be playing!
Aug. 21, 2020
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3777 posts
If this is purely a "theoretical exercise", that's fine, too! ... That results in a totally different and lower-priority level of interest in it from our side ... Thanks for the submission ...
Aug. 21, 2020
TimMcElroy
833 posts
Let me try this from a different angle. There is a process.

BEFORE the tournament, each manager submits his roster to SSUSA including any player adds / drops. That document goes to the park and is there ahead of the rising sun.

BEFORE play begins, each manager is asked to confirm that the document we have at the park accurately represents the players he will be using that weekend. That is his final chamce to make changes or adjustments. Once the team begins play their roster is locked for the weekend.

AFTER playing in a game, the director takes the game card from the umpire and matches it up to the roster on file. Jones? (Yep), Smith? (Yep), White? (Yep).

IF the director comes across a name that is not on the roster a flag goes up. He then goes to the next step of resolving that issue. It happens at the park, in real time.


As to your suggestion..... it could work, except we now have to hold up team check-ins because every team has "that guy" who shows up 2 minutes before 1st pitch, forgot his ID card, left his wallet in the hotel room, or registered but hasn't received his new card yet.

The lost and found stack of player cards each weekend would be roughly a foot tall.

IMO, there is no need for a process change. The one we've got is working just fine. Tim



Aug. 21, 2020
Papajoe56
Men's 60
66 posts
Wow, I made a simple proposal and didn't intend for it to get to the point where you have to defend the current SSUSA social distancing and check in procedures... I think you are missing the point, I can come to a tournament with a valid roster of players, but not have one player thats on the roster play for me. Since SSUSA doesn't check the roster against a Player Card there's no way to tell if the team has roster players or illegal players unless the opposing team protests and requests a card check. I'm not naive, I know even if a coach submits all player cards when submitting the waiver prior to the start of their 1st game a team can still use illegal players. Just thought a simple process change would further improve the process and hopefully provide another check. Again, I'm not criticizing SSUSA so lets leave this as the last post. Please.
Aug. 21, 2020
SSUSA Staff
3195 posts
Papajoe56 ... With the luxury of 20-20 hindsight, it's apparent your initial post made at least an inference, if not a full allegation, that roster improprieties were occurring at the Western National's ... Maybe it wasn't your intention, but that was your message and we take it very seriously ....

"..At the Western Nationals, it was obvious teams were picking up players at the tournament prior to game time. I would feel more confident teams are playing fair.."

Ollie4 asked you to be more specific, as did we ... You've now backed off, essentially turning this into a theoretical discussion, which is fine! ... But the place for that is in the National Rules Convention annual sessions ... If you still have something factual from the Western's you want to share for us to investigate, we would welcome that ... Please contact our office with identifiable (as to you) correspondence and state your verifiable observations of fact ... If not, thank you for your input and we'll take it under advisement ... Your call!

Aug. 21, 2020
Papajoe56
Men's 60
66 posts
Tried to end this but I guess you want to continue... so letís make this a theoretical discussion. Iím curious, tell me exactly how the SSUSA Staff is going to investigate this event? The tournament is over, the players have gone home, the game cards will reflect the teams official roster player names, and the coach will tell you he only played official roster players. Really, I just make a suggestion and everyone gets defensive... whatís wrong with everyone today?
Aug. 21, 2020
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3777 posts
It's pretty simple Papajoe56 ... We intend put an end to this quickly, too ... You inferred, at a minimum, that there was roster cheating at the Western Nationals ... But apparently it wasn't important enough at the time for you to notify anyone in authority on site ... And now it's just rumor control (and dismissal) unless you've got your proof ready to go ... I know the other four managers in your 5-team 60-AA division and I would simply be stunned if ANY of them played any "games" with their rosters, but we're not going to pre-judge either way ... If you (we know who you are) AND the manager of the Texas Legends 60's want to pursue it, we await your allegations via identifiable email or other written correspondence ... We'll open an official inquiry and devote our full attention and resources to investigate thoroughly ... Otherwise, we're done here ... This thread is closing after this post ...

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