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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 91 anonymousDiscussion: What's the Call?
| Posted | Discussion |
| Aug. 6, 2021 The Abider 11 posts | What's the Call? OK, all you umpires out there. Runner from 3rd, past the commitment line, is tagged by defender with glove only. (ball in other hand) Umpire rules safe, runner slows down as the defender (unsure about what the rule really is) throws to the catcher on the mat before runner crosses the line. My question, does it have to be a legal tag past the comm. line or any act of tagging? The umpire thinks they blew the call. What say y'all? Thanks. |
| Aug. 6, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | runner is safe as soon as the tag is made… the rule states NO TAG by a defensive player will be allowed… and the rule does not state that a ball must be in the glove at the time of the tag 8.8 • COMMITMENT LINE A commitment line thirty feet from the scoring line or scoring plate will be used. Once a runner's foot touches the ground on or past this line, the runner is committed to advancing to the scoring line or scoring plate and may no longer be tagged out. EFFECT: Tag of the runner by a defensive player will not be allowed. The runner will be called safe, the ball remains live and the runner is not required to touch the scoring plate or cross the scoring line. NOTE: If a runner re-crosses the commitment line for any reason in an attempt to return to third base, he will be declared out and the ball remains live. |
| Aug. 6, 2021 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Order of precedence is always important. I just had a bad throw take the catcher off to his left. He tagged the runner then ran back to the mat. His coach argued should be out. The rule is exactly as B.J. stated. I told him even if wasn't that his catcher created obstruction on a force out only play. The most interesting one that I saw was same scenario as mine, but the runner slid across the line before catcher stepped on the mat. The tag overrode both of the out situations. Nice job, blue. |
| Aug. 7, 2021 Turning2 Men's 70 204 posts | Was there actually a legal tag made on the runner? I don’t think so, see 1.46 for legal touch. I don’t want to sound argumentative but tagging with glove with ball in bare hand or vice versa is not a legal touch or tag. Wouldn’t this be same scenario if runner on first breaking for second base, second baseman fields slow roller, he is right handed and has ball in glove, he is to the left of the runner and as they swing arms with vigor as they run the fielders right hand (without the ball) touches the runners left hand, runner does not interfere and the fielder doesn’t obstruct, incidental and simply a brush of hands, next play depends on who reaches the bag first. Fielder gets an out or runner advances to second base. Based on my reasoning, I disagree with both answers above. If I’m wrong, please show me my error in applying the rule set. |
| Aug. 7, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | T2.. I already posted the rule above.. the rule states that a runner who has passed the CL may no longer be tagged out. the EFFECT of the rule tells you AGAIN that the tag of a runner by a defensive player WILL NOT BE ALLOWED... so there is no such thing as a legal or illegal tag ... IT CANNOT BE ATTEMPTED AT ALL .. this rule was put in place to avoid collisions at HP between the runner and a defensive player/catcher... in the OP it says the runner was tagged by the defender therefore the runner is called safe immediately and can go straight to the dugout without going to the scoring plate/line |
| Aug. 7, 2021 Turning2 Men's 70 204 posts | BJ - yes sir, I see your post and reference to the rule but again, I don’t think there was a “ legal tag or touch” I may be wrong, but I also may be right. Maybe a SSUSA regional UIC will join in on this one and give us their answer. Not arguing, mind you, just see it a bit different as I described in the example that i used as a basis for my reasoning. I’ve been wrong before. |
| Aug. 7, 2021 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Gentlemen ... There was a "tag" applied and, in my view, the moment the umpire declared "Safe", the argument over whether or not it was a tag that met any sufficiency standard is a moot point ... Upon the safe call, the base runner is no longer required to proceed toward home, touch the scoring plate or cross the scoring line (an appeal, NOT mentioned here, might have been entertaining) ... He may proceed to the dugout, pick up the batter's discarded bat, stand and watch the action or do anything that does not affect play ... As a Director observing the play, I might want to have a later private discussion with the umpire about the concept of the empty-glove-tag, but as presented, I've got a run scored and a live ball situation ... |
| Aug. 7, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | DD ... well I guess we can go back and forth on whether or not the tag was legal without the ball being in the glove.. to me the defensive player physically tagged the runner and I read the rule as NO TAG of the runner is allowed past the CL .. so even an attempt of a tag with the defensive player touching the runner would make the runner safe.. and if you still don't agree I would tell the Tour.Dir. (lol) that once the illegal tag was applied I would have an Obstruction call and rule the runner safe |
| Aug. 7, 2021 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | B.J. ... I think we agree on this ... I don't know if the rule is "no tag", which sort of implies a valid baseball/softball tag (Turning2's opinion, I believe), or "no touch at all", which is the childhood playground game of the same name! ... The rule doesn't resolve that dilemma! ... |
| Aug. 8, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | DD.. I also think we agree.. and I will use a term I have read here a few times over the years by the ADMIN.(lol) ... "the spirit of the rule" which I believe was written to avoid collisions at HP and IMO having a defensive player physically touch/tag a runner whether legally or illegally is not allowed once he passes the CL.. to take it a step further if the defensive player made a swipe tag and made no contact with the runner I would have a no call and let the play continue on |
| Aug. 8, 2021 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Let's play a little game I really don't like: Tweaking the facts a bit to see if a different result can be coaxed out of the question ... 3B chasing the base runner toward home ... As soon as he crosses the commitment line by 6" or so, he slams on the brakes and the 3B slightly bumps into him from behind, with NEITHER the glove NOR ball hand making ANY contact with base runner ... What do you have (other than possibly questionable sportsmanship by the runner)? ... I have a "play on" and an out if the 3B tosses the ball to a defender covering the strike mat ... |
| Aug. 9, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | DD.. I have no problem with your call in the tweaking of the facts... I do know we have discussed this in the past on different scenarios where a runner stops after crossing the CL and I brought up the specific wording of CL 1.15 [b] must continue home; (and suggested removing it) ... where in your tweak the runner didn't continue home he stopped?? in many plays over the years I have seen runners stop and even retreat a few steps when the catcher has caught the ball a few feet off the strike mat and try to lure them into tagging them ... this to me is a violation of CL 1.15 (b) must continue home ... yet there is no specified penalty on the runner?? |
| Aug. 9, 2021 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | B.J. ... OK, here goes Tweak #2 ... Baserunner puts the brakes on 6" past the commitment line, but doesn't completely stop ... Goes from running full speed to a snail's pace that causes the 3B to lightly run into him from behind as mentioned above ... Now what's the call with the baserunner still "..continuing home.."? ... |
| Aug. 9, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | DD.. lol… well per the wording of the rule The base runner is fulfilling his duties in continuing toward home plate (he did not stop)… if The defensive player then made contact with the runner in any way but did not touch him with a tag I would let the play continue and give an OBS. signal and award the runner home if needed |
