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Discussion: Should a team get to compete?

Posted Discussion
Aug. 13, 2021
Brenco13
8 posts
Should a team get to compete?
Should a team that wins the Eastern National Championship be aloud to compete against the West? Or should they be bumped up to major? And be told ok you the USA champions. We will give your your awards in Vegas. If you win major you can also win the triple grans slam?
Aug. 16, 2021
pfrenette1
Men's 65
3 posts
Brenco 13 - thanks for posting the question because my team is effected by this decision. We played the entire year following the rules set forth by SSUSA only to have SSUSA use the input from directors and data they collected from each tournament to justify the move to the Major division just before the Vegas tournament. Reason given was they can make a change in team ranking when they believe it would create an unfair competition and hurt the tournament. According to Terry Hennessy there were 3 or 4 team that had their ranking changed after the Eastern and Western Nationals. I had a very good discussion with Terry today about the timing of this move and what if anything could be done. As it turns out nothing can be done to allow us to play in the 65AAA bracket. We have been a 65 AAA team for the past 5 to 6 years and never even qualified for a TOC or the East West game. This year we are having a very good year and it cost us. I am very disappointed that SSUSA could not have told us prior to the Eastern Nationals so we could have at least tried to qualify for the East/West game as a Major team.
Aug. 16, 2021
Se11out
7 posts
If a team has followed the rules, had their roster approved and played in a qualifying tournament, SSUSA should never bump a team after Western or Eastern nationals. Teams pay way to much money to travel to this tourney with the hopes of winning and having the chance to play the other champion with the 1 seed on the line. SSUSA should be embarrassed that they have done this to several teams this year. They need to have the team ratings set before this tourney is played period. SSUSA needs to do better. Before anyone from SSUSA chimes in on this, just know that no matter what you may say to try and validate what you have done, ďyouíre wrongĒ.
Aug. 16, 2021
Dbax
Men's 65
1975 posts
Exactly.
Aug. 17, 2021
curveball
Men's 65
688 posts
You are correct Se11out
Aug. 17, 2021
BMF
8 posts
We got bumped to Major Also. Played 10 total games In ssusa in 2021. The teams we played scored runs against everyone else but my team. We pride ourselves of defense we avg 20 runs a game which you need in AAA to win. If the other team donít hit against my team itís not my fault . They said my run differential was too high. Well I canít swing the bat for the other teams.
10 games in ssusa played a total of 6 different teams

3x against the same
2x
2x
1x
1x
1x
They listen to other Managers to make a decision . Thatís what my email says.

I have one question if we win Majors to we get bumped to Major Plus. IMO Major Plus is a death sentence. We donít have the money to compete with the other teams. Especially when they are paying players.
Aug. 17, 2021
pizzaboy
76 posts
Pfrenette1 would you please post your teams re ord in 2021 and how many TOCs they won this year.Oh by the way didn't you also win a Ssusa "major" in Md?I'm asking for a friend of course.
Aug. 17, 2021
Dbax
Men's 65
1975 posts
It doesnít matter what their record was. It makes no sense to bump a team after they win the Western or Eastern Nationals. The whole point of these two tournaments was to give a team a chance at winning the Triple Crown, which was a great idea for SSUSA. By doing this, they screwed up their idea. Thereís no incentive to play in those tournaments anymore.
Aug. 18, 2021
BMF
8 posts
Should of just dodge the eastern nationals..Playing in the Eastern Nationals hurt us to compete for a World Championship. Lesson Learned for everyone if you have a good weekend in the Eastern Nationals expect to get bumped.
Aug. 18, 2021
Lebobster1
Men's 65
17 posts
SSUSA has given themselves a HUGE Black Eye after moving teams AFTER the Eastern/Western Championships. NOTHING could transpire in this single tournament to warrant such a move! Decisions to do so have to be made PRIOR to this tournament as it is the first leg of their biggest prize of the year....the Triple Grand Slam (TGS). This leaves those teams/players involved quite disappointed to say the least. More importantly, it lessens the quality and meaning of the SSUSA product and the so called "National Championship" game and TGS specifically. I wouldn't want to play in a "watered down" National Championship game and then win the TGS as they would obviously come with an asterisk next to them!

All proposed changes should be REVERSED to right this wrong IMMEDIATELY!

On a separate note, I was made aware of a disparaging comment on this thread made by SSUSA staff. However, when visiting the thread just now, it has obviously been removed. Isn't this nice! I've tried to edit my posts in the past but am unable to. Sounds like another case of....rules for thee...
Aug. 18, 2021
djwarren
Men's 50
4 posts
I rarely post. I think it important I do now. I first want to say I enjoy many umpires and staff at SSUSA. To bump a team at Western an Eastern Championships is just plain wrong. The only reason to penalize a team is if the had and illegal roster. Now the teams have wasted lots of money and time for nothing. The goal is to win and get a good seed and potential for a triple crown. Everyone that was moved up should be reversed asap. If not good luck getting teams to Western and Eastern Championships moving forward. Why even play in the event and take the chance to get moved up when you approved roster. I would go so far to say why play in any major TOC events. If the goal of SSUSA is to get teams moved up then why not move up the top 10-25% of teams at worlds. Wouldn't this solve the problem? Then at least the rule is transparent, not political, not personal and fair across the board. The last thing SSUSA wants to do if have players and team playing other associations because of decisions made like this hurting Sponsors, teams and players.

Do The Right Thing SSUSA!
Aug. 18, 2021
bkb555
288 posts
Unless a team has won a large majority of the tournaments they have entered, they shouldn't be bumped up until the end of the year or after Vegas...I can see if they win their first 5 tourneys of the year and are beating everyone, then maybe they should be bumped but winning ONE tourney probably doesn't justify the mid-season bump....like one of the posters said above, some of those major plus teams have paid players and unlimited access to superior players and it is difficult to compete....just look at the numbers of teams that enter in major plus brackets...last weekend in a big eastern tourney, there were 2 teams on the 60M+ and 3 teams in the 55M+ brackets...it is almost a penalty to be too good because then you get stuck in 2 and 3 team brackets and play the same teams every tourney...i don't know what the answer is but getting bumped up in any division is like the kiss of softball death
Aug. 18, 2021
BMF
8 posts
I would have no problem if Ssusa said you can finish the year in AAA. Next year your bumped to Major. Make it a rule if you win Eastern/Western Championship
Itís automatic Bump. To do this before Vegas is ridiculous. We have a possibility from going AAA to Major Plus in two months.. Maybe avoiding Vegas May be the answer at least we can get a extra year in MajorÖ. Not just one Tournament. Again Major Plus is a death sentenceÖ 99 pct of the teams fold after winning Majors or go to a different sanction.
Aug. 18, 2021
pizzaboy
76 posts
My friend still wants to see this teams record for 2021 and how many tournaments they won.Maybe they're just too good for aaa.My friend thanks you.
Aug. 18, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 65
3530 posts
pizzaboy ... That team played in four SSUSA T.O.C. qualifier events and one large independent director event under SSUSA sanction in the 2021 Season ... They won ALL FIVE tournaments and had an overall W-L record of 25-2 ... The two losses were in the first seeding game of two events, after which they ran the table ... Their aggregate run differential was +224 runs over the 27 games (avg. margin of +8.3 runs per game) ... That's the raw factual data from which you may draw your own conclusion ...

Aug. 19, 2021
Lebobster1
Men's 65
17 posts
@DaveDowell, the only conclusion I draw from your post is why did SSUSA wait until AFTER the Eastern Nationals to make the asinine decision they did? What happened in that tournament to change things that it had to be done NOW?...I'll answer that for you, NOTHING!

In fact, it's my understanding from the statistics (run differential) that you use as "justification", that the Eastern Nationals had the lowest run differential of the 5 you mention. Their is NO justification at that point to make the change and any weak excuses SSUSA uses only make the organization look worse in the eyes of all teams that could potentially be impacted by this type of decision going forward.

It's decisions like this that takes the fun out of playing in your events.
Aug. 19, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 65
3530 posts
@Lebobster1 ... You are free to draw and publish your own conclusions ... I posted raw factual data in response to multiple requests by an individual for that information (for the record, I don't fully buy into his "friend was asking" theory!) ... I am not a member of the National Ratings Committee nor was I involved in any of the mechanics of how/when their decisions were published ... Accordingly, I shouldn't and won't be engaging in speculative or opinion-based public commentary on this topic ... Thanks ...
Aug. 19, 2021
djwarren
Men's 50
4 posts
Dave I can understand the data you provided. I am all for moving teams up. However this should happen before Western/Eastern Championships. At least the team can make changes to roster if needed and decide if they want to spend money going to Western/Eastern Championships. No team has ever been bumped up and won Championship or worlds with in the same year that I know of.


We need to talk about the real problem. No one likes to be bumped up to major plus. Most states no do not have enough players to pick from and the budget to compete with the super team in major plus. Then when a team gets bumped they disband and get spread out in the major division or stop playing. This leads to having no local tournaments to play aginst major plus teams. Look a western championships, they only had 3 teams. How fun is that and playing the same teams over and over again.



So what are some solutions.

1. Have transparent rules.
2. Get rid of the boundry restrictions for Major Plus
3. Bump 25% teams up this year and 10% each year after.



If SSUSA can increase the numbers in Major Plus and Major we need to do our part as players to not keep trying to drop down. Stop complaining about other teams being better than them. Allow SSUSA to try and fix the broken system. Not everyone can win a trophy.

Once again no team should be bumped Western/Eastern Championships. it is wrong and should be reversed.
Aug. 19, 2021
pizzaboy
76 posts
Wow 25-2 and complaining about getting bumped up!They might be ready for Major plus with the record they have.
Aug. 19, 2021
Dbax
Men's 65
1975 posts
Hey Pizzaboy, stop whining. The whole argument is that they should have been moved up before the Eastern Nationals. No one disagrees with that. Are you whining so much because they have beaten your team all year long?
Aug. 19, 2021
Dbax
Men's 65
1975 posts
Forgot to add I was asking for a friend.
Aug. 19, 2021
pizzaboy
76 posts
Dbax believe me when I say I couldn't even be their ball chaser for the homeruns they hit.I stink as a player and I know it.I did witness a few of their butt kickings this summer.
Aug. 19, 2021
pizzaboy
76 posts
And so did my friend!
Aug. 19, 2021
rlspls1974
Men's 65
113 posts
I find it interesting that so many folks post their opinions here without actually revealing their identity?

Why wouldn't you add your name and location to your profile and not just a nickname?


Asking for a friend of course
Aug. 20, 2021
pizzaboy
76 posts
I cant't use my name because I'm in the federal witness protection program!My friend is also in the program.I'm sorry but it is what it is.
Aug. 20, 2021
pfrenette1
Men's 65
3 posts
I would like to clear up a few points: the Talaga Construction team was having its best year ever. Our record of 25-2 was more then we ever dreamed of. We have been playing Senior Softball for about 12 Years and we have only qualified for one TOC and that was when we were a 60 AA team. After that TOC we were moved up to AAA status. Over the past 6 years as a 65AAA team we won about 50% of our games never once winning a TOC tournament. This year everything came together and as stated it has been our best year. As for the upgrade to Major we know that there was a very good chance that would happen after the World Tournament. We never dreamed that SSUSA would move us after the Eastern Nationals. During my discussion with Terry Hennessy right after I was notified of the change in ranking I asked if it was possible to let us compete as a 65 AAA team and then move us after the Worlds. We had no issues being moved after the Vegas tournament. The answer was no.
As of yesterday the Talaga Team has withdrawn from the Vegas tournament. All of this noise has split the team in half - half wanting to still go and the other half deciding that they did not want to go because we were not being treated fairly. I understood both sides of this issue. I only hope that we can resolve this issue and be ready to play in FT Myers as a Major team. As for the number of home runs hit in the Eastern Nationals it was 5. We had 4 hit against us.
For the record the 25-2 record consist of playing
6-65 AAA teams
5-70 AAA teams
3-65 Major teams
2-65 AA teams
There were never more the 4 teams in our age group in any of the tournaments we played in.
Paul Frenette
Manager
Talaga Construction
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