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| Aug. 27, 2021 DD Men's 75 92 posts | More on Major Plus Let's look at some numbers and see if we can draw any conclusions about Major Plus. These are the number of Major Plus teams that competed in the World Championships since 2009. I arbitrarily assumed the Worlds would draw the most teams of any tournament during the year. 60+ 65+ 70+ _____________________________________________________________________________________________ 2009 |
| Aug. 27, 2021 DD Men's 75 92 posts | Well, that chart didn't work out too well...tech-challenged... Let's try again. Major Plus teams competing in the Worlds: 2009 60+ 7 teams 65+ 3 teams 70+ 5 teams 2010 6 teams 4 teams 6 teams 2011 4 teams 4 teams 3 teams 2012 9 teams 4 teams 4 teams 2013 9 teams 5 teams 3 teams 2014 8 teams 6 teams 3 teams 2015 9 teams 6 teams 2 teams 2016 9 teams 7 teams 5 teams 2017 9 teams 8 teams 3 teams 2018 9 teams 5 teams 4 teams 2019 4 teams 4 teams 3 teams 2020 4 teams 3 teams 2 teams 2021 9 teams 5 teams 1 team Years of note: 2011 was the last year the Worlds were held in Phoenix; 2012 was the first year they were held in Vegas and there was no longer a separate LVSSA World Championship tournament; 2016 was the first year of Timberworks current streak; 2020 was the first Covid year with lockdowns and the Worlds played in St. George; 2021 Timberworks now competing 70. Some thoughts to follow... |
| Aug. 27, 2021 DD Men's 75 92 posts | Given the fact that there are generally fewer players still competing as we get older, it isn't surprising that Major Plus is not growing at the upper ends. DISCLAIMER: I haven't looked at below 60 so I have no data for the younger ages. 21 Plus teams competed in these 3 age groups in 2016 which is the high in the last 13 years; throw out the Covid year (2020) and the low is 11 in 2011 and again in 2019. The 60s have been fairly consistent with between 7-9 teams competing in 9 of the last 13 seasons; 65 M+ was adding a team per year until the Timberworks dominance really took hold in 2018; 70s are hard pressed to bring more than 3-4 teams in recent years. There are just too few players who still retain the skills to be competitive at the highest level. This is not to say that there couldn't be more Major Plus teams at 65 and even 70, though. Plenty of guys can still run, throw, field, hit, and even have a little power left...they may have been AAA players in their mid 50s, but now in their late 60s and 70s, those skills alone make them higher-rated players...perhaps even Major Plus players. The key is to find and develop them and disburse them among more teams. If the division needs more teams, create more teams. If you truly want a strong, healthy major plus division, it might be the right time to encourage some of the best players in the older divisions to spread the wealth. Start new teams. Parity makes the sport stronger. It's the entire basis of SSUSA's ratings system. |
| Aug. 28, 2021 Enviro-Vac Men's 65 489 posts | That’s a really well thought out analysis and proposition DD |
| Aug. 28, 2021 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | Enviro-vac, you do have a unique situation and it is a tremendous testimony to what you have done as a team. I understand these 'fixes' that we are proposing may not be to your advantage. What would you do? DD, do you really think Timberworks will just fold and say 'no more winning'? I don't think so either. What they have accomplished is amazing. Would you give that up? I do agree with you totally on players that CAN play major plus. As we get older, practice does NOT make you better in most cases. It actually helps you keep from losing those skills as fast and the ones that can 'maintain' rise to the top. There are many guys that could compete real well in M+ but I find that after 65 the desire to play with FRIENDS for fun seems to be the motivating factor much more than the winning. |
| Aug. 28, 2021 DieselDan Men's 75 601 posts | Webbie25: "As we get older, practice does NOT make you better in most cases. It actually helps you keep from losing those skills as fast and the ones that can 'maintain' rise to the top." Reminds me of a fellow master sprinter who told me that we do all this training on and off the track to help us lose speed slowly. |
| Sept. 13, 2021 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | At the risk of 'stirring up' the hornets nest, I just found out that Timberworks must WIN the 65 M+ bracket to be considered the 70 M+ champion. So, in reality, SSUSA has taken my advice, in a way, to discontinue M+ at the 70 level for this year.I know this has been a difficult issue, Terry, Fran, Dave et. al., but I do not think it is fair to deprive Timberworks of the Championship at 70 M+ just because they have no competition at that age group. 65 M+ seems healthier this year so maybe 70 is the level to begin to only hold M+ at Vegas for worlds, and not have teams travel and spend all that $$$$$ to play best of threes or play down to compete. |
| Sept. 16, 2021 Enviro-Vac Men's 65 489 posts | DD and Webbie25, I think you are benefiting everyone in senior softball by keeping this thread alive to prompt more thought. To answer your query of what I would suggest Webbie25, I believe DD made a good suggestion on Aug. 27/21, “If you truly want a strong, healthy major plus division, it might be the right time to encourage some of the best players in the older divisions to spread the wealth. Start new teams”. I also am somewhat aligned in thought with the two messages in Doaks’ August 13/21 post on this subject, one by Tat22 and the other by Baseballbill, referenced below: Tat22 …”I know one change I would like to see. When a team is bumped to Major+ make it for one year instead of two. A lot of times when a team gets bumped they are on the verge of going up in age classification, or half of the team can go up in age and the other half can't leaving the "younger" players in limbo for the next year and the burden of finding a team that will pick them up and automatically be at the plus level due to the number of players to be picked up. I think making the plus tag apply for only one year would benefit a great number of players.” Baseballbill …”Senior Softball protects all age/class divisions by moving a team up in class when winning the worlds except for Major Plus teams. In the 2019 annual meeting it was proposed that when a Major Plus team wins there age division, they get moved to the next lower major Plus age division (65 to 60) so they also move up in class. For whatever reason, it was voted down. This option to me makes sense and will stop a Major Plus team from dominating a division.” |
| Sept. 24, 2021 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | Timberworks wins again, over 65 M+ teams. Another amazing year for them and I congratulate my teammates and friends there.The athletes over 70 on that team are amazing. Way to go!!!!!! |
| Sept. 24, 2021 Doak 19 posts | Webbie, to be fair to the 65 major plus teams, who were all very good and the Indiana team played exceptionally well to win the 65 major plus title. Here are the particulars: -Timberworks had to play with 10 defensive players so numbers matched. -We took the 5 runs per game (If we hadn't, we would not have won the tourney) -The Indiana team played 6 games and sustained several injuries to their outfield. -We were the winners bracket survivor and because McDowell had secured the 65 championship by beating the Texas Crush, (Texas was also really best up). So there was no reason for them to play us/Timberworks, so we didn't play. We each we champions of our age groups. I won't add anymore comments because it just doesn't end well no matter well intended the intention.. Doak #37 |
| Sept. 24, 2021 MurrayW Men's 65 221 posts | Doak, congratulations to you and your team, you guys played well and hit when it counted. When I heal up I am still looking forward to our race! :) |
| Sept. 24, 2021 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | I have to commend the class which both teams employed to handle the situation. Now we have a 70 m+ champ and a 65 major+ to congratulate. Way to go!!!! |
| Sept. 28, 2021 Riversider 5 posts | This is Tim Barker and I am the left fielder for McDowell & Sons who recently played in the Vegas Wirkd Tournament Major Plus Division. I would like to thank all the players from Timberworks, Texas Crush, and Top Gun who came on the field to check on me when I was injured trying to make a catch in left center field in the Texas Crush game. You guys were all very gracious with your comments to me on how I play the game and your concern for my health was taken to heart. Some very nice comments were to directed to me which were greatly appreciated especially coming from all the great players that are on those teams. I was having a great tournament to that point (17-19 hitting) so it was very frustrating not being able to play any more games after that. When I returned home and saw my Doctor I found out that I had 4 broken ribs and bruised the Intercostal Muscles in my side & chest. This is a very painful injury and tough to deal with as it affects every move I make. But I am hoping to recover in time to play in the ISSA World Tournament in Sanford, FL in 6 weeks. The doctor has told me it will take 6 weeks to heal so it will be touch and go on that. But in closing, I again want to thank those players who checked up on me as it was greatly appreciated and great sportsmanship. And it was a pleasure competing against you all. |
