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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 166 anonymousDiscussion: Can a player run for another one twice in one inning?
| Posted | Discussion |
| Aug. 30, 2021 MurrayW Men's 65 221 posts | Can a player run for another one twice in one inning? Here's my hypothetical situation. Player A is not a starter in the game. Player B gets a hit, and player A runs for him and ultimately scores. Player C gets a hit in the same inning. Can player A be substituted into the game for Player C at that time and run for him? |
| Aug. 30, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | Murray, hmmm good question... I know of no rule that states that player A can't go in as a sub to run for player C after already being used as a CR earlier in the same inning |
| Aug. 30, 2021 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | if you put him in to hit for player c "yes" but he can not run twice in same inning(he would be classified as a runner). |
| Aug. 30, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | grayhitter.. I agree with your thinking but no where in the rules does it state that it can't be done.. it says a CR cannot run twice in the same inning and technically he is not a CR he's a sub. and no where does it state that a sub. coming in would be classified as a runner... I also think he should be illegal BUT I need to see it in the rule book |
| Aug. 30, 2021 rmp0012002 Men's 50 57 posts | I believe you can CR for different players during a game, done that, but can’t run for the same person so I would think it wouldn’t be allowed. |
| Aug. 30, 2021 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | Garyhitter59 is 100% correct! A courtesy runner may be used for a base runner at any time, but the same courtesy runner may not be used more than once per inning. Rule 8.5(1). Andy Smith |
| Aug. 30, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | Duke, yes that is correct.. but he went in a a sub. not a CR ... show me where that is not allowed in the rules hopefully DD will chime in where it's not allowed in the rules |
| Aug. 30, 2021 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | BTW, I do not believe the courtesy runner can bat for player C in the same inning that he ran for player A. Andy Smith |
| Aug. 30, 2021 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | B.J. You are probably correct. I read the question incorrectly, since he went in as a sub for player C, not a CR. Thank you! Andy Smith |
| Aug. 30, 2021 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Interesting discussion ... The intent was very clear long ago: An offensive player should not get to run for someone else more than once an inning ... The language is somewhat inconsistent with the intent ... Take advantage of it for the short term ... Here's a proposed simple four-word rule amendment for the National Rules Committee to consider in the fall that should shut down this loophole ... I'm confident there at least 7 votes to make it into the book! ... §8.5(3) • COURTESY RUNNER REPLACEMENT A courtesy runner may not be replaced by another courtesy runner or by a substitute except for injury causing removal of the original courtesy runner permanently from the game. |
| Aug. 30, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | DD.. that won't fix the problem he wasn't replacing a CR.. this was a player on the line up sheet as a sub who legally CR then entered the game as a sub for a starter that got a base hit |
| Aug. 30, 2021 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Well, then maybe it's longer than a four word fix! ... We've got time ... There's a way to word is so the effect is "No Way No How Is ANY Player Running on Behalf of Someone Else on His Roster More Than One Time an Inning for That Player!" ... We'll have to clean up the language I suspect! ... Ha! |
| Aug. 30, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | how about something like this?? a substitute on the roster and listed on the official lineup who has entered the game as a CR may not enter the game as a substitute to replace a runner in the same inning |
| Aug. 30, 2021 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | I like it! ... You're hired ... You get the same pay I do for Rules Committee ... An occasional "Atta Boy, Dave" ... Thanks, B.J.! |
| Aug. 30, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | lol... thx Dave, that's the same pay rate that The Villages has been paying me to be the UIC for the last 17years.. great deal |
| Aug. 30, 2021 TimMcElroy 942 posts | Hi Dave, When considering rules changes, I tend to ask myself a few questions- "Is this really an issue, or something that is happening on a frequent basis?" And- Does the current rule detract from the game? In this case, my answer to both of those questions is No. |
| Aug. 31, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | Tim, I agree with you on it not really being an issue and I can't ever recall it happening .. BUT it should be made aware to all umpires, UIC's and TD's that if it does come up in a game as of now it is a legal substitution |
| Aug. 31, 2021 Enviro-Vac Men's 65 489 posts | DD that four word rule change you suggest makes no sense to me. If player A is a Sub. and has not played but is on the lineup card so as to make him/her available as a CR and runs for player B as a CR, and scores, then subsequently and in the same inning player C gets hurt and is unable to run why would player A who was legally substituted in, not be able to run for self? |
| Aug. 31, 2021 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | EVM - It seems to be the consensus that I never should have typed that post ... Now I feel JUST LIKE a lot of you guys! ... NEVER MIND! ... |
| Aug. 31, 2021 stick8 1991 posts | MurrayW, as to how the rule is now, to answer the subject question: No. A player cannot be used as a courtesy runner twice (or more) in the same inning To answer the question as described in your scenario: Yes. If player A was previously used as a courtesy runner for player B, let’s say in the 4th inning, he can legally go in to the game as a substitute in the same inning for player C. I’ve been on teams that have done this several times. One time this actually happened. I’m using names on here for examples only: BJ, being the speedy runner he is, unfortunately was not a starter. In the 5th inning he was put in as a courtesy runner for grayhitter and ended up scoring. Later in the inning Dave Dowell was up and got a two out single. BJ went in for Dave running at first as a substitute. Dave is now out of the game. BJ scored on a double by stick. Tim was up next and flew out to end the inning. Our manager Duke then told the umpire that Dave was going back in as a re-entry for BJ. All legal according to that umpire, and a way to skirt around the CR rule. I’m not certain but I believe BJ cannot go back into the game as a sub. But can he still be a courtesy runner in the next inning? Correct me if I’m wrong. |
| Aug. 31, 2021 MurrayW Men's 65 221 posts | Stick8, I think you described it exactly like I interpret the rule but I see no reason why BJ cannot run as a CR in the 6th or 7th innings. |
| Sept. 1, 2021 stick8 1991 posts | MurrayW I believe your correct. In the scenario therei is nothing in the rules that would prohibit BJ from being courtesy runner in the following innings. But I’ll defer to BJ on this. He’s the go to guy for rules |
| Sept. 1, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | stick.. yes BJ could be a CR in the 6th and 7th inning but once removed from the line up BJ cannot return as a sub. again later in the game |
| Sept. 1, 2021 MurrayW Men's 65 221 posts | Oh, and stick8, thanks for making BJ the CR/Sub runner rather than me! That scenario would never apply to me. After they put me into the game as a CR for the first player, my coach would have never seen me again to put me in as a sub for 2nd player! Plus, I am not sure that I would want to play for a coach that is so stupid to put me in to run once in an inning, let alone twice! |
| Sept. 5, 2021 stick8 1991 posts | That is correct BJ. |
| Sept. 6, 2021 breeze53 Men's 65 57 posts | Guys, you can run for different players as many times as you want in the same inning. You do not have a official score keeper, the umpires do not write down the players # that pinch run. It has happen to my teams twice. Open inning, a lot of hitting and pinch running. You bring attention to the umpire of the infraction. They do not remember who ran and when. No official book. No recourse. Tournament director, shrugs his shoulders. Just saying. Ain't that right Mr. McElroy. |
| Sept. 6, 2021 B.J. 1105 posts | breeze.. I haven't worked a SSUSA tour. in several years but when I did we always tracked the CR's and the score even if there was a home team score book.. also it didn't matter if I was in a 2man system or working solo if it's not being done the teams should be complaining to the tour. dir. and UIC |
| Sept. 7, 2021 TimMcElroy 942 posts | No idea what you're referring to breeze53, but here is my response to what I think you are saying. 1) The umpires SHOULD be noting CRs and substitutes as they enter the game. 2) The home and visiting book have the opportunity to note CRs and substitutes as they enter the game and SHOULD be doing so. 3) In the absence of those things and/or the official's clear recollection of player "x" running twice as a CR in an inning then there is really nothing that a UIC or Director can do to change, or create a call. None of what I just said changes the rule, making it "legal" to run people as frequently as you'd like. |
| Sept. 7, 2021 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Tim ... It's pretty simple ... He's saying he cheats because he believes there is a slim chance that he will be caught ... That's not exactly within the spirit of respecting the game ... |
| Sept. 7, 2021 Enviro-Vac Men's 65 489 posts | Great post on Sept. 1 MurrayW, good sense of humor! |
