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Discussion: 50 Vegas worlds 2022

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Sept. 2, 2022
Rudedog67
14 posts
50 Vegas worlds 2022
3 players looking to join a 50+ team for Vegas worlds our team just dropped out. Looking for AAA team one is a infielder, one is a fast outfielder and I can and have played both infield and outfield. All of us are good ball players based out of Michigan and ohio
Sept. 3, 2022
Rudedog67
14 posts
Players already have flights and places to stay I will be there just wanting to play will separate to make it easier for teams
Sept. 5, 2022
JohnO28
Men's 50
33 posts
which team did you play for?
Sept. 6, 2022
Rudedog67
14 posts
JohnO28 we played for motor city push
Sept. 8, 2022
Puppydog44
4 posts
Similar situation here. I sponsored a team and played in a March qualifier. Our team since has folded, Im trying to rejoin my old team of 5 years and go to Vegas and am being told NO because I didnt qualify with them. I am 60 next month and a AAA player....cmon where is the common sense here
Sept. 8, 2022
Rudedog67
14 posts
I have been told you can play with another team as long as they are below 12 players as long as you play in your same division you can’t be a major ball player trying to play AAA
Sept. 8, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
The "do's" and "dont's" you need to know on roster additions for the World's are in a couple of "white-papers" available in this website ... Hover your mouse over TOURNAMENTS ► RULES on the Menu Bar and then select the SSUSA Guide to adding Players and the related World Championships Roster Considerations ... If you still have questions, please call the Sacramento Home Office at (916) 326.5303 between 9:00 AM and 4:00 PM Pacific time and ask for an eligibility specialist ... They can help you through the maze of roster composition ...

Sept. 8, 2022
SS11
57 posts
Dave, it seems they are pretty strict on roster adds for worlds, which is good. They even pulled a couple of line-up cards from games to make sure a couple of our players, played in a qualifying event. Does that mean all teams had to have played in a qualifying event? Or are there teams that were able to build their team for worlds without ever playing in an event? Hope that is not the case, or else everyone should have access to pick up whoever they want, if playing in a qualifying event is not mandatory to attend the World Championships.
Sept. 9, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
SS11 ... That's the simple intent of a "qualified roster" theory ... While we recognize there are legitimate circumstances that can reduce the original roster, we're not going to allow what could be a free-agent market of players just before the World's from team's not going ... This procedural structure is enhanced by not allowing "exceptions" ...

Regarding your question about "non-qualified" teams, there are four of them (all in the 40-Masters divisions in Session #3) this year, three in the Women's 40-Masters Major division and one in the Men's 40-Masters Major+ ... Playing in a qualifier will remain "required", but occasionally there are situations that may prevent that ... Here's how we handled them:

The three women's teams will play in the 40W-Major seeding pool games, giving an equalizer, before having their own "OPEN" three-team double elimination bracket ... Not having seen them play this season, carving them out of the main 40-Major bracket eliminates any question of unfairness that could adversely affect the teams that DID qualify ...

In the case of the men's team, we have designated them an "OPEN" team and they will give an equalizer in ALL games while competing in the Major+ division ... We were pleased when the team "welcomed the challenge" that comes with giving an equalizer to the best teams in the country ... Good luck!


Sept. 9, 2022
titanhd
Men's 60
621 posts

Player played in Qualifying events both 55 Major and 60 major in 2022. Both of his teams are not playing Worlds.He was allowed to Roster for Worlds with a different 60 M team that has it's full allotment of players (not less than 12) that he did not qualify with. By playing 55M all season is also not the same skill level as 60M.

I understand rules and they are strict as they should be,as long as they are applied equally"across the board"

As with everything else there are always Shenanagins and rules are "made to be broken". I guess...
Sept. 9, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
titanhd ... Please call the Sacramento office as mentioned above if YOU are that player or it's YOUR team ... Otherwise, the smart money bet is there is some key fact or circumstance, or both, undisclosed to you ... This is a text book example of why the Message Board is not a public roster debate tribunal! ... Thanks!
Sept. 9, 2022
SS11
57 posts
Dave,

If that men's team's roster aligns as a Major + team, and they are being rated as "open" for not supporting SSUSA and playing in a qualifier, I understand. If that team should be classified as an "open" team based on the guidelines, then your explanation is BS (which I hope it is not). I just looked at the team list and understand which team it is. Knowing most of the players affiliated with that team, it will be interesting to see what players show up, as they are known enough by most. It will be easy to determine what their rating should be based on the guidelines used by every other M+ team. Why would SSUSA not offer the same to teams seeking to add players that did not play in a qualifier. Why not tell teams that they can add who they want, but any team adding "exceptions" will be bumped to an "open" team. That would give them the same chance that a team forming without playing qualifiers? Wouldn't that be "fair", based on the situation that happened? Just asking.

Thanks for all of your hard work, we do appreciate it! We just want a level playing field.
Sept. 9, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
SS11 ... The men's team (Proton 40's) is playing "Open" simply because they didn't play in a qualifier ... Some would argue that we shouldn't push them to "Open" because Major+ is already the highest level of play, so we should just give them unrestricted rosters and let it fly ... We (inadvertently) did that a few years ago when a Major+ team disbanded just before the World's and there was a mad scramble to pick up their top talent unrestricted ... BIG mistake on our part, so we now require ALL teams to qualify, even Major+ ... If they can't/won't, then the remedy is to push them up and make them give an equalizer in every game: Major+ to "Open", Major to Major+, AAA to Major and AA to AAA ...

In fact, there are four more teams (other than the Women's teams) that didn't play in a qualifier, but they were in native rating levels below Major+ ... ALL of them were moved up one rating level, without negotiation, to allow them to play in the World's ... That's preferable, in our view, than denying them the opportunity to play at all ... Assuming for the sake of discussion that banning them from the event is not an option, what would your remedy be for Proton? ... Thanks!

Sept. 9, 2022
SS11
57 posts
Sounds fair enough Dave. Technically "Open" is the highest division right, not Major Plus. Wouldn't an "Open" team be any team with more than 4 players from Non-bordering states and/or at least 1 player from the opposite side of the Mississippi River from their registered location? My point was, if Proton (just as an example, because last year I think there was a 55+ team that did this) has players from the opposite side of the Mississippi, than having them be the only "Open" team means they aren't being classified higher for not playing in a qualifier, but because that is what their roster dictates?

Again, not a question about them directly, but when the rosters are being restricted like they are (as they should be) it makes it a little unfair to have a team thrown together of the best "available" players in the country that didn't play SSUSA all year because they were playing other organizations, now they come and compete for a World Championship. SSUSA isn't the cheapest to play, and SSUSA should not bend to teams that don't support it. Otherwise it looks more and more like it is just a money grab.

NOTE: I am not saying that is what has happened this year, and I believe your explanation as it is. As you have stated it, it seems fair enough. Thanks
Sept. 9, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
Thanks SS11 ... While we don't have an official "OPEN" rating level, we do have it for, as you described, teams with players from the other side of the conventional East/West of the Mississippi River demarcation line ... That same 55-Major+ team from last year is playing "OPEN" again this year for the same reason ... I have also just been told that Proton will also have at least one player from the East, thereby guaranteeing their "OPEN" status ...

If teams decide not to play in a qualifier with us based on economics, that's fine ... The cost of that approach is playing UP one level at the World's, or if they are already playing in the highest rating level, "OPEN" status and giving an equalizer in ALL games ... It's the most fair way to ensure competitive balance and integrity ... Good luck!

Sept. 9, 2022
SS11
57 posts
But really, for an "Open" team, there is no consequence, as they already have to give the equalizer.
Sept. 10, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
Well, I guess that could be true if you consider giving an equalizer to the very best senior softball teams in the world to be "inconsequential" ... That's sort of why we play the games!
Sept. 13, 2022
SS11
57 posts
Dave, you missed the point that they would have to give the equalizer even if they played in a qualifying event, because they are an "open" team. So they were allowed to construct their team without it being "frozen" due to playing in a qualifying event. Often times, not everyone can make the "qualifying" event on a team due to family, work, life events. So when the whole team doesn't show up, but you can have whoever you want on your team, and you get to play by the same rules as if you played in a qualifying event, is there really any kind of consequences to not playing in a qualifying event?

Even if they played in a qualifying event, they still would have to give the equalizer because their roster is an "Open" team's roster. Yes or no? So what was the consequence for not playing in a "qualifying event" and getting their roster frozen?
Sept. 13, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
SS11 ... I didn't miss it at all ... I'm deep in the 4th Session now and this is a rear view mirror item ... And I can't remember whether I put it in the "A Difference Without a Distinction" file or the "Stuff Not to Overthink" file ... Have fun and good luck! ...
Sept. 13, 2022
FreddyMac13
2 posts
My 50's team pulled out for Vegas. I have already paid for my hotel room. Outfielder with great speed good bat. Based out of Alabama.
Sept. 14, 2022
Jay49er1
2 posts
Dave Dowell look I as the customer have the right to express my thoughts and your job is I believe to try and correct them. I first love that our 40 Major plus bracket has another team to play. The Proton team is a good team and I hope my team gets the opportunity to play them. Will my team take the equalizer 🤷🏽 Lol but I hope we play them. But sir with all respect to most the teams you did this all wrong. They shouldn’t have been able to play in this tournament. Not only did they not play in one Qualifying tournament all year they were also days if not weeks past the deadline to have their money turned in and don’t say they weren’t because you would’ve put them on the first paperwork that came out with the 15 teams on it. but you know what I’ll support other organizations next year and then when it’s time for worlds for you guys I’ll just register my team and playing worlds only that will save us a lot of money. And another team that’s in the tournament flatliners they didn’t play one tournament this year either and what do you do with them they’re in the major division why is that they were a major 40+ team all year in Southern California in USSSA But they play in the first tournament with you guys and they’re a major team that don’t make sense.
Sept. 15, 2022
SS11
57 posts
Jay49er1 - While those teams are allowed to turn in a roster of their choosing, you cannot add players that have become available, and/or may strengthen your team, because they did not play a "qualifying" tournament with your team. Yet these teams can have a roster full of players who didn't play in a "qualifying" tournament. There really was no "penalty" for not playing SSUSA all year. Both teams are classified based on their roster only (Proton - Open, as that is what their roster dictates, and Flatliners - A USSSA 40+ Conference (equivalent of Major+) because they have avoided playing SSUSA gets classified as a Major team.

Teams that support SSUSA during the year, want the rules and guidelines to be equally enforced for ALL teams.
Sept. 15, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
Thanks guys ... Both teams you mentioned are completely rules compliant, fairly and consistently applied to them and multiple other similarly situated teams in several age and rating levels of the 2020 SSUSA World Championships ...

Proton 40BY RULE raised to "OPEN" Division status because they did not play in an SSUSA 2022 Season qualifier (they also later added an out-of-region player which would have had same effect)
Flatliners 40BY RULE allowed to participate in World Championships at current rating level because they entered a late summer qualifier (Invitational Summer Sizzler in Hemet on July 15th to 17th) that was cancelled through no fault of the team ... When that happens, we allow the team to enter at their current rating and their roster is limited to 15 players (in their case that's 13 from Flatliners 2021, one new to SSUSA, and one from Genesis 40-Major in 2021) ... The roster has only one player (of a maximum three allowed) with 40-Major+ history during the applicable period ...

It's reasonable to conclude from your comments that you may be opposed to the rules and/or policies employed in these instances ... That is certainly fine with us ... The venue for suggested changes to those rules is the National Rules Committee ... They meet annually at the SSUSA Convention, this year in Ft. Myers, FL in late November ... If you have an interest in contributing suggestions to be considered for change, please contact the SSUSA office and they will provide guidance ...

Good luck!

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