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Discussion: 1st Base force out

Posted Discussion
Jan. 10, 2023
John27
Men's 50
37 posts
1st Base force out
Ground ball is batted to infielder and thrown to 1st base for put out. First baseman drops ball and picks it up in bare hand and touches base with empty glove at same time before runner touches base. Runner was called safe, umpire said it had to be either ball in hand touching base or foot. What is the correct call?
Jan. 10, 2023
Turning2
Men's 70
204 posts
Any part of the fielders body, including his hand inside the empty glove can tag the bag as long as he has control of the ball in bare hand as you have described. It is a pity to hear and read some of the calls that are being made by some of the umpires. If they are certified by an association they should know better.
Jan. 10, 2023
John27
Men's 50
37 posts
Turning2,
Florida Half Century. I thought it was a force out also.
Jan. 10, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4312 posts
B.J. ... What say you on this as one of the Big Dawgs in The Villages???
Jan. 11, 2023
B.J.
1105 posts
that's a great question to start the new year...
Dave, 1st instinct was to say runner is safe because this would not be an out on a tag play... but I would have an out .. I believe the glove is an extension of the arm as long as the glove was secure on his hand and the ball secure in the other hand ..
Jan. 11, 2023
Turning2
Men's 70
204 posts
DD - curious why you wouldn't comment? And BJ, correct this is a force out play and not a "tag" on a runner. Glove on a hand, same as a shoe on a foot, for this particular play.

DD - on another note, with the rules committee meeting concluded yesterday, do you know when those notes will be posted to the website under the Rules drop down tab under the Tournaments tab?
Jan. 11, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4312 posts
Thanks B.J. ... In SSUSA sanctioned play, we've never seen the exception the FHC umpire quoted (maybe made up?). Is that an FHC "local rule"? ... In our view:

A tag is the action of a fielder in touching a base with the body while holding the ball securely and firmly in the hand or glove; or touching a runner with the ball or with the hand or glove holding the ball, while holding the ball securely and firmly in the hand or glove.

For a legitimate tag, the fielder must have the ball held securely in either the hand or the glove. Nowhere else. With the ball held securely in hand or glove, the fielder can, in a force situation, touch (tag) a base with any portion of his body, including his gloved hand, his foot, non-glove hand, and so forth .

T2 ... The National Rules Committee convened over dinner on Saturday evening and met in working sessions from Sunday through Tuesday. The Minutes have been prepared and approved, pending one oustanding technical issue inquiry. We anticipate publication on or before Friday ...

Jan. 11, 2023
Michael Plunkett
Men's 70
45 posts
When will results of rules committee decisions be posted or can
Some say if 70 can have a few underage players. Also new team ratings will be out when?
Jan. 11, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4312 posts
Michael ... See ▲ immediately above ▲ ... The National Rules Committee convened over dinner on Saturday evening and met in working sessions from Sunday through Tuesday. The Minutes have been prepared and approved, pending one oustanding technical issue inquiry. We anticipate publication on or before Friday ...
Jan. 11, 2023
B.J.
1105 posts
DD & John27 .. I haven't worked FHC in several years but I went to their website and reviewed their rules.. they do have a few "strangely" worded rules but not the 1 mentioned in the OP
Jan. 11, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4312 posts
Thanks B.J. ... We have a few of those type of "make it up on the fly" umpires in SSUSA, too! ...
Jan. 11, 2023
B.J.
1105 posts
DD... lmao .. yes I remember working with 1 years ago
Jan. 11, 2023
Michael Plunkett
Men's 70
45 posts
Thank you Dave, didn’t see message intertwined among that “supposed” umpire call at first base. Find it hard to believe any ump would really make that call. If she/he did I bet it’s last time that mistake
would be made.
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