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Discussion: Shaved Bat

Posted Discussion
Dec. 5
softball4b
Men's 70
1250 posts
One of my favorite isms is, “I am going to give you information” how you process it is entirely up to you. I expect there will be a lot of information that will be forthcoming within the next few weeks, but I feel compelled to share my thoughts beforehand.

During the winter worlds a pitcher was hit with a batted ball and subsequently the bat checked and deemed to have been shaved and therefore illegal. I am not concerned nor interested in the back story only in the causation and result. An illegal bat was used and an individual incurred an injury. SSUSA will determine what consequences will be paid by the individual and or anyone else knowingly involved with regards to future play within the organization.

The why an individual would knowingly make a bat “hotter” is known only to that person. I can guess, but truthfully, I don't care.

That person put someone else at risk for injury and forever ruined his reputation. Correspondingly his action has sullied not only his reputation but those associated with him whether they knew or did not know of the players actions. Beyond the scope of the softball field the individual has also put he or she and their family in financial jeopardy. In the case of injury, litigation is not only a possibility but a probability.

95% of the bats I have owned or do own have come from manufacturer reps or certified retailer websites. The few bats I have purchased from individuals, I know them personally and feel confident in their integrity. If I ever purchased a bat and I didn't like it, I would sell it and usually less than half of what I paid for it. Sorry rabbit trail and not relevant to the subject.

My current experience is limited to the 60-70 division. I personally have no firsthand knowledge of individuals shaving or selling illegal bats. Being a catcher and kind of anal retentive, I look at every bat being brought to the plate. Most of the issues I see are guys swinging Utrip or ASA bats. I know those bats aren’t as good as senior bats, so I don’t say anything. With the new rule change I guess I might. If there is an instance where I think a bat is not legal, I will always protect my teammates. If I am wrong, I will deal with it. If I must buy a guy a new bat I will. I would rather be wrong, than not say anything, especially if one of my friends is injured.

Velesquez has been on top of this for years. I feel confident SSUSA will take corrective action, but it is up to us to be more involved in policing our sport. I sent an email to my teammates informing them that I did not believe anyone on our team was cheating, but such conduct is not acceptable and not tolerated. I copied our sponsor and SSUSA.

Lastly, no hit, home run, game, or championship is worth the possibility of injury to an individual and or a financial hit to you/your family’s livelihood. In the worse scenario, the injured player dies because of the illegal equipment, criminal action. Criminal negligence or manslaughter.

Mike Adair
Scorpions 70
Dec. 5
nickname36

96 posts
"EXACTLY"

Why not lower the COR of the balls, then shaved bats would be pretty useless. It would
make the game more of a team game. You would have to hit according to the situation at
the time, how many outs and the score and inning, etc etc, it would put the skill of the players
back in the game not just a couple of walks and then a HR, couple more walks and another HR.

"DEFINITELY NO PITCHERS SCREENS TO FIX THE PROBLEM"






Dec. 6
unclebuckgb

10 posts
I pitch and still play with the young guys who are more than likely using illegal bats i have told my teammates that if i m ever hit seriously, to grab the bat and have it checked to make sure it is legal they are weapons
Dec. 6
Jimmy.p

4 posts
Changing the balls because of some ass holes
Are shaving bats.not a good idea. A lot of players can only hit soft singles and thats with current balls i have played against teams that cant advance a runner past 2nd base with out being forced out by a out field throw, deader balls will make a lot of hitters easy prey. Its pretty simple ssusa for starters could out law any bat with removable end caps .Manufacturers would comply or go out of business.and if you do get caught with a shaved bat ..life long ban with your team mates losing a full season. The ones that are the most dangerous with shaved bats are the ones that dont need to shave them. SHAVED BATS make a poor hitter INTO a average hitter an average hitter into good a hitter and great hitter into a dangerous hitter.Something needs to change start with Manufacturer let them do the work .
Dec. 6
ju25
Men's 60
236 posts
I have played against shaved bats in USSSA and they make a poor hitter dangerous. The senior players I know that use them, don't need them. Senior bats nowadays are pretty much already shaved. They are testing under 220, which was the old pass fail for USSSA. Lifetime banning if you get caught
Dec. 6
Motofox133

57 posts
Shaved bats are being used at every tournament at every level and most players know the guys that are swing them.

If SSUSA really wants to put an end to the shaved bat issue or at the very less try to slow it down. Before every tournament SSUSA should use a compression tester, pass or fail bats that are too hot for tournament play. If a player uses a bat that has not been tested, he is kick out of the tournament and is suspended.

If you are caught using an altered bat. (Shaved not Rolled) Then you should be banned for life period.








Dec. 6
mck71
Men's 60
345 posts
Thanks for putting this out there Mike, I totally agree with you. Extremely sad esp. with how hot senior bats are already. Definitely have to be careful when buying a "used" bat these days.

Motofox - the issue with compression testing is what number do you use? I have OG Dudley's that are legit and I have been swinging them for a lot of years, the must have thousands of swings on a few of them, assume they are pretty low compression. Would hate to be told I couldn't use a legal bat when I know it's clean.

I agree that shaved bats are everywhere, just not sure WHY a guy would swing one knowing he could injure someone (usually P, 1B or 3B as the closest players). I believe because most just don't care about anything but themselves? You will hear arguments about M+ levels needing that "edge", I call BS because usually they are the ones who are either better players or work harder or both, I would hate to think it's because you swing a shaved stick.

I am sorry that someone got hurt by someone who is cheating and not caring for that players safety, I truly hope that player who got hit is ok. I would have NO ISSUE paying for that bat to be cut open. I think more umpires and directors as well as knowledgeable players need to help police this issue (you can hear and see the difference a shaved bat makes, it really isn't that hard). I think first offense should be 5 yrs, then IF EVER a 2nd offense it's a ban for life. It has to be serious or people won't take it seriously.

This is a tough subject, I wish it wasn't true but we all know it is. Just sad.
Dec. 6
BruceinGa
Men's 70
3233 posts
Learn the difference between an illegal bat and an altered bat. It would add credibility to your post.
Dec. 6
nickname36

96 posts
"EXACTLY"

UNCLEBUCKGB:
What I don't understand why would you wanna pitch with the younger guys and
take a much greater chance/risk of taking one off the "COCONUT"?

I pitched for approx 13 years from 30 years old to approx 42/43 years old and in the
B division never was hit. I quit pitching in the middle of the 1st game of a tourney in
cali when a laser was hit right at my crouch and as it went between my legs it nicked
the bottom of my baggy shorts and after the inning was over I have not pitched another
inning to this day, IT NOT WORTH IT, It scared the crap out of me what would of happened
if it was 3 inches higher?

The only difference between a rolled ball and a bat with 50 to 100 hits on is not a thing
there both broken in just rolling gets the job done quicker and no evidence if the bat is
compression tested.


Dec. 6
roster

2 posts
A altered bat is illegal And rolling a bat is alternate it which makes a rolled bat Illegal. Rolling a bat is not the same as 50 to 100 swings. Independent test show 20 to 35 feet longer on rolled bats. When you roll a bat, it breaks down the fiber on the whole barrel.
Dec. 7
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4337 posts
roster ... A "rolled bat" is an ALTERED BAT ... A "shaved bat" is an ALTERED BAT ... The ONLY difference in those two concepts is the process by which the bat owner converts his bat from a legal bat to an ALTERED bat ... Any other attempt to rationalize this type of activity is still cheating ...
Dec. 7
Enviro-Vac
Men's 65
490 posts
I believe the point BruceinGA was making is that an illegal bat would be one without the SSUSA approval stamp.
Dec. 7
mck71
Men's 60
345 posts
The only issue is that in the Definitions section of SSUSA rules book is says:
1.32 ILLEGAL BAT
An illegal bat is one that does not meet the requirements of rule 3.4

Basically saying that an Altered bat as defined in Section 3.4 IS an Illegal bat by SSUSA definition.

It's all semantics but I believe we all know it's still cheating as Dave said.
Dec. 7
Jimmy.p

4 posts
Its a simple fix .require bats to be manufactured with non removable tamper proof caps..end and handle (like milk.medicine,sports drinks ect.)give manufacturers a grace period
1 year to comply. And put in severe penalties for the use of a shaved bat in a sanctioned game. 1# minimum 5 year Ban to life long ban.and its very important to penalize the team as well perhaps with a ban from a few ssusa tournaments. .This may seem extreme but team members will police them selfs.Remember most players play by the rules the problem is caused by the ones that dont and dont give a rats ass .so why would you care if they got the boot.
Dec. 7
roster

2 posts
Thanks Dave Dowell that was my point exactly. People try to justify rolling a bat
as a faster way of breaking it in. Ignoring that it is cheating
Dec. 7
nickname36

96 posts
"EXACTLY"

OK the question is how can you tell difference between a rolled bat and well broken in bat?

* Does the compression test change between a rolled bat and a well broken in bat?
* If you cut the rolled bat and the well broken in bat open will there be visual difference
between them?
Dec. 8
just a player
Men's 60
16 posts
Banning the cheater is a no brainer. Suspending the entire team is totally out of line. How are they supposed to know? To say that all the teammates know who is using a shaved bat is ridiculous! Suspending the manager should only happen if it can be proven that he/she knew about it.
Dec. 9
Oldballs
Men's 60
35 posts
I would like to see the manufacturers either make the bats where ENDCAPS Are NOT REMOVABLE or where they CAN BE REMOVED EASILY at Tourny"s. Check Every bat and if one is found to be SHAVED DESTROY IT RIGHT AWAY AND PLAYER IS banned from all senior ball FOREVER. TEAM IS REMOVED FROM TOURNY.
Dec. 11
nickname36

96 posts
"EXACTLY"

I agree with the life time ban but "Destroying the bat right away" is totally ridiculous!!!!

That would be life a cop pulling over an aggressive driver on the freeway and after finding
the person guilty then "DESTROYING" there car. Give me a break!!!!!!!!
Dec. 13
garyheifner

651 posts
Oldballs is saying exactly what I have been posting for years. There has to be a way to seal off end caps. Bat companies will find a way. People will continue to cheat until life time bans are real.
I know some purists are against screens. Down here in the Villages, Fl they are optional. If a pitcher wants one, he is responsible to carry it out and in each inning. The teams have it down to a science and do it quickly and causes no delay to the game.

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