Dave, Not trying to be funny. But what is your definition of a BAT WARMER??

Her Dave:
I played in Phoenix and it was in the 70's, I just find it humorous that teams were using Propane Heaters. I would have roasted in the Dugout, this just gave me my laugh for the day.
THanks
Tom

Mason,

I find it ironic that SSUSA went out of their way to "officially" ban "Bat Heaters" because someone complained that teams were using Propane heaters in the dugout to keep warm and protect their bats. So they banned "Bat Heaters" which is an actual device which nobody has ever complained about including the teams at the tourney. There is absolutely nothing that prevents someone from still bringing a propane heater because that isn't a "Bat Warmer" that is a propane heater and we all know SSUSA is about the letter of the law on everything including their wording on rules. Having a propane heater can't be punishable offense because it's not a bat heater.

Ironically though, they are more concerned about a bat being heated but aren't worried about the cold temps affecting and changing the compression of a ball. A ball that literally there has been multiple posts started about the safety factors of because of a subpar cover that literally not a single other ball by any other company has the same issue with yet nothing was done about that and that is an actual real safety issue.

John;
I was in Phoenix playing and the temps were in the 70'sPropand heaters in the dugout were NOT necessary

Olden Slow,

Guessing you were playing 75 based on the "Men's 75" under your name. What were the temps on the weekend when they were playing it might have been different temperatures for them than you.

The weekend was much colder than during the week. Even during the week it was not in the 70’s at 8 am. Ridiculous post.

Dbax
Youre correct, your post is ridiculous.
Keep in mind that us old guys need it warm because we have stiff and brittle bones.I just stated that it was not needed when I was playing and quite frankly, a heater wouldn't help many of us the Geezer Division.
But I was there a few days at 8:00am to watch my only friend play and it wasn't that cold but that's just me.
BTW: We've met and spoken a few times :-)
Have a great evening

Grandpa ... I'm not a semanticist, so I have no intention of trying to offer a firm definition ... But I'm going to take the same approach as Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's concurring opinion in Jacobellis v. Ohio, 378 U.S. 184 (1964) when faced with the definition, in this particular court case, of what constituted pornographic content ...

He wrote, "..I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it.." ... You will know what constitutes a "bat warmer", too, and there is no upside in trying to maintain some sort of list here that becomes the basis of any additional waste of bandwidth in furthering that debate ...

Additionally, the false assertion that we somehow went out of our way to "officially" ban "Bat Heaters" is simply ludicrous (at best) ... The propane heaters were employed as bat warmers, and there is no intellectually honest debate about that ... Bat warmers have been, and will remain, prohibited, despite some of the crazy commentary you may read here ... Bringing an existing rule to the attention of the membership is all that happened ...

Dave,
I pray you stay warm n healthy! Thinking of you hea in da Tropics! Aloha, Fabe

Olden Slow, temperatures were not in the 70’s on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. At 8 am they were in the upper 40’s. Bat warmers were needed.

The official Phoenix temperature extremes during the Winter World's were
TUE: 55°-75°
WED: 54°-75°
THU: 55°-81°
FRI: 55°-70°
SAT: 52°-63°
SUN: 50°-68°

The official Phoenix temperature extremes during the Winter World's were
TUE: 55°-75°
WED: 54°-75°
THU: 55°-81°
FRI: 55°-70°
SAT: 52°-63°
SUN: 50°-68°

Exactly and not a single composite bat should have been swung in those morning temps for any association bat and especially senior bats. Yet you as an association make it harder and harder every year for players to be able to afford to play your tournaments "in the name of safety" which no matter how many times you try to tell us differently we all know has nothing to do with safety. Last year you stopped allowing us to use ASA/USA bats that are far more durable and hold up better in colder weather. Now this year enforcing a rule that has never been mentioned in the SSUSA rule book but was adopted by ASA/USA prior to this. If find it ironic that you always say if a rule is specific to SSUSA then we are supposed to refer to ASA/USA rule book as the governing body. If that is true what is the point of adding the rule to the SSUSA rule book if it's already in the ASA/USA rule book? Your time could have been spent so much better addressing ACTUAL safety issues like the horrible cover on the ball SSUSA has chosen to use which is 100% an ACTUAL real safety issue. Yet you guys continue to just ignore that fact.

Dave/Committee Members, Nobody is trying to embarrass you guys. All they are doing is proving to you that you guys really did not think this out before you implemented this ridiculous rule. I know you are probably going to say it's a safety issue. EVERYBODY knows that's not the issue. As a matter of fact, since we have to play in cold temperatures and use cold balls SSUSA is putting it's members in an unsafe situation. ALL WE ARE ASKING IS, IF THE TEMP IS UNDER 70 DEGREES AT GAME TIME WE SHOULD BE ALLOW TO USE A BAT WARMER. That is a great compromise.

Not Dave,

While I agree wholeheartedly with you we're beating a dead horse as Dave has said so many times on so many posts over the years. I find it funny that SSUSA refuses to address the safety issue with the cover of the ball they've chosen to use. I understand that it was changed due to ball shortages pertaining to Covid but Jeezus that was how many years ago? The height of Covid that cause this has long been gone and no suppliers have issues with balls being made anymore.

Ironically, they are making a big deal about the compression of the bat changing making it better and "Unsafe" to use but don't address the fact that the compression of the ball changes as well. A frozen ball no longer adheres to the 44 .375 values that a ball must pass in order to be certified to use but they don't care about that because dirty covers lead to more ball sales for SSUSA. Every year we incur more and more expenses and get less and less in return every year. A few years back we would at least get patches to hand out to MVP and All Team players. This year at Worlds each team got 1 MPV medal that was it but pricing goes up every year.

I don't expect my post to last long seeing as how if you disagree with Dave he either deletes your comments on the post or locks in and finishes with one last condescending comment to members who don't agree with him. I would be interested to know how many people who actually vote on these rules have ever played or have played in the past 10 years.

Dbax and John, I stand corrected. I guess I'm used to playing in colder temps (I live in Prescott @ 5300' elevation) and I've never seen Propane Heaters in the dugout but then most of us have old type winter bats that have seen better days. We do have practice games in 40+ weather but that's for the hardcore knuckleheads (like me).
But at the cost of these bats, this rule may need to be reevaluated.
Y'all have a Merry Christmas.
See you on the field in 2025.
Tom

Go to cabelas or any hunting store even amazon and get yourself a couple pf pairs of the electric hunting socks that are used to heat up your feet when hunting and put them in the bottom of your bat compartment in your bat bag, works pretty damn good.

Nothing in the rules about using battery operated hunting socks.

JohnO28: It's probably time for you to start paying closer attention ... We have said, for maybe a couple of decades, that if the SSUSA rulebook does NOT address a specific issue, then we look the USA (formerly ASA) rules for guidance to see if the issue is covered there ... You have that bass-ackwards ... As for why we published the pre-existing rule on bat warmers being prohibited is because too many people didn't know the rule, chose to ignore it, or both ... That won't be an issue now: Most people are aware and will be since this is an area of emphasis for the 2025 Season ... We're likely to leave your post up for a while ... You're "that guy" (again) who has all of the answers to absolutely every question except one: How do I attract the personnel talent and financial capital so I can start my own association that won't do all of the stupid things SSUSA does? ... Good luck with that ...

Other Dave: Bat warmers are prohibited, and their use meets the rules definition of altering a bat ... If we understand your suggestion as written, it appears that you believe using altered "heated" bats should allowable below a certain outside temperature ... Are you advocating that other altered bats, including rolled or shaved bats, should be permitted at the same temperatures? ... That's highly unlikely to be approved ...

yankeesfan12 ... We have no objection to the use of electric hunting socks, so long as they are used only in the manner as intended by their manufacturer ... That means being worn on your feet! ... The suggested use you propose would meet the definition of bat altering ...

We may leave this thread open for a short period, but it likely won't be very long ...

Morng folks..can I get a reminder why we can no longer use a USA/ASA bat in SSUSA sponsored events? Did that originate out of a safety concern,or some administrative decision to just go our own way? Not trying to "be cute" here, just lost track of the reasoning why we can no longer use a bat more durable and better suited to unfavorable gametime conditions such as low temps? Tku geo

9 ball: There are two steps to this. The first was happened when USA did away with the 1.21 BPF requirement for its bats. At that time, USA Softball switched to a “hotter” bat to be used with a “softer” ball (52/300). As a result, SSUSA banned the use of all USA/ASA bats that did not carry the 1.21 or 1.2 BPF marking. The second change happened more recently (within the last couple of years), after USSSA kept changing its bat standards, and after Dr. Brandt (who did the BPF testing) retired, and after the NTS began certifying bats. At this point, the different associations’ bat standards became even more varied. It became difficult to determine which bats met the SSUSA standard unless they bore the SSUSA logo or stamp.

Tku for informative reply Donna, seems nothing is as easy as it appears. For my future guidance, I assume the following ssusa bat requirements apply..1)newer bats must have ssusa logo/stamp on handle,2)older bats that are not on prohibited list must display bpf of either 1.21 or 1.20. Tku geo

Dave,

While I appreciate your recommendation that I read better the issue with my statement was the word "is" instead of "isnt". When inserted properly it reads correctly that ASA/USA is the governing body unless there is a specific rule change in SSUSA.


So for full transparency and to show you I can certainly read and comprehend things seeing as you're eluding that I struggle with both here is a conversation from April. The topic was no longer being allowed to use ASA/USA bats in the cold weather to preserve our Senior bats with the institution of last years rule change about bats.


April 15
JohnO28
Men's 50
179 posts
Dave,

In the spirit of this conversation. Please elaborate on how you expect players to "plan" for this when the only bats that are approved to play come with WARNINGS from EVERY single manufacturer telling you not to swing them under 60 degrees. Exactly what preparations could have been made by players to follow your new rules? There are really 3 options for those in the Midwest, North and Upper East Coast.
Option 1: pay for expensive bats with NO warranty and risk breaking them in these tourneys just to play.
Option 2: wait another month until it's safe to swing these bats.
Option 3: choose to play every other assocation which doesn't hold you to the same bat standards and realizes that not everyone lives in FL, TX or CA and thinks about all it's members instead of just the CA based ones.

It's apparent that not all members are considered when rules go into effect considering at least 1//3- 1/2 of the country it's not safe for them to play in SSUSA tourneys but yet that is when they are scheduled. If you want players to adhere to the rules then maybe schedule their tourneys for months that are safe to use the equipment mandated by SSUSA.

But for real, I would like an honest answer how SSUSA expects us to "Prepare" for this rule change?
April 15
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4458 posts
Maybe being prepared is just a regional phenomenon ... In St. George's high altitude and chilly temps last month, we saw a lot of "older" legal bats with the SSUSA sticker and the BPF 1.21 (or lower) ... We saw a fair number of passive bat warmers, like the wooden boxes with a foil background and a Plexiglas front ... We saw a few smaller propane personal heaters that just happened to be outside of and in the general area of the dugout fences ... What we didn't see were broken bats in trash cans or hear about them, either ... Those teams seemed well "prepared" and didn't seem to suffer adverse consequences ...


So according to you this rule has been in effect in SSUSA ever since ASA/USA adopted it and it's only being added to the SSUSA rulebook because some members didn't know about it or ignoring it or both.

But here you are explaining how teans were combatting last year's rule change. I can only assume that when you say "we" means you were there personally to witness this as you as a man who is very exact in your wording. So SSUSA allowed an entire tournament to be run by teams blatantly violating their own rules which was obviously observed by everyone in charge seeing as you cited multiple ways teams were keeping their bats warm. So how is it that a man who seems to pride himself in not only knowing every rule but also upholds them all would not know every team using heaters were breaking SSUSA rules putting players at risk? Not only did you but the entire staff allowed this to happen then you came on here and told everyone about it. Not only told everyone but also recommended these exact violations to protect our bats in the future.
How can you come out and say this rule was added to the SSUSA official set of rules even though it's been in effect for several years because ASA/USA is the governing body for all rules NOT specifically noted in the SSUSA rules when YOU were the one who told teams to do this. Right there in writing you told teams to use multiple different devices to warm their bats.
What is the penatly for SSUSA higher ups putting in writing how to "Alter" their bats at tournaments?

Well John, apparently unlike you, I have no reservations about admitting I don't know everything and, more important, acknowledging I make an occasional mistake ... Yesterday, a message of mine included the line, "..As for why we published the pre-existing rule on bat warmers being prohibited is because too many people didn't know the rule, chose to ignore it, or both.." ... Until the Rules Committee meetings in Tucson, I was a member of the didn't know the rule group ... But not anymore! ...

And as long as we're clearing up misconceptions, you continue to be mistaken to say we added the bat warmer prohibition to our rules ... It was always in existence as a part of the rules, but it was un-published in our book ... That caused many people (present company included) to erroneously presume, in good faith, they were OK to use because OUR rulebook was silent on the matter and they/I didn't think to look below the surface to the underlying USA/ASA book, where it IS covered ...

Heck, even YOU missed USA Rulebook SECTION 7 in your second December 8th post on point! ... That blunder sort of swept the legs out from under your faulty defense of bat warmers being legal in USA and (by extension) SSUSA ... I also lost my valiant attempt to get the Committee to exempt completely passive warmers from the rule ... The vote was 1-9, and I was the "one"! ... Oh well! ... But in conclusion, "bat warmers" are OUT, effective immediately ... If folks wish to challenge that through some form of rules disobedience, they should probably become familiar with SSUSA Rulebook §3.4(6) on pages 15-16 in advance so they aren't surprised at potential consequences ... This pretty much concludes the justifiable useful life of this thread ...

Mr. Dowell, By NO means am I advocating the use of ROLLED, SHAVED BATS or the use of PROPANE HEATERS. Those players should be suspended.

I am curious. You say players are not allowed to use a Propane Heater. WE TOTALLY AGREE. But Yet, PROPANE HEATERS are NOT illegal to have in a dugout. WHY?

From what I am hearing, the definition of an ALTERED Bat is one that is NOT in it's ORIGINAL STATE WHEN PURCHASED or Altered from the Manufacturers recommendations.

But yet we are allowed to change the BAT Grip to a Better grip of the players choice to give them an EDGE.

Players are ALLOWED to use PINE TAR/SPRAY ADHESIVE. By using this, isn't that ALTERING the Bat? Giving them an EDGE?

Suncoast Bats: Some Suncoast Bats have a STICKY SUBSTANCE on their Barrel. As you use one of those bats the Stickiness wears off. But yet we are ALLOWED to wipe it down with a Cold or Warm WET TOWEL. WHY?

Batting Gloves: Some players use Pine Tar/Spray Adhesive on their Batting Gloves to get a better GRIP. Isn't that ALTERING the ORIGINAL Equipment? Giving them an EDGE?

Yankeesfan, I have a pair of NON HEATED Thermal socks (Just THICK SOCKS). I can use one just to keep my bat from getting colder and staying at a consistent temp.

Other Dave ... I was confident you weren't advocating allowing rolled or shaved altered bats at under some theoretical temperature level ... But you were advocating allowing temperature altered bats to be used ... I wanted to confirm if you were in favor of using all, or only some, altered bats ... The National Rules committee does not differentiate on the types of altered equipment covered by their prohibition ...

I agree that it's not illegal to have a propane heater in your dugout ... But you are altering your bats if it is placed near the team's bats in an attempt to warm those bats ... If I'm the site (or tournament) director, I'm going to make it real easy on you: NO PROPANE HEATER "ON" IN THE DUGOUT DURING THE GAME, so the tournament officials (including umpires) aren't spending all day policing whether or not you are playing within the spirit of the rules ...

None of the other specific things you mentioned, like re-gripping a bat, pine-tar or sticky spray (properly applied as allowed), batting gloves, a bat manufactured with a tacky feel, etc., alter the technical performance characteristics of the bat ... They might give the user some EDGE, as you describe it, but they do not alter the pliability, flex characteristics or performance specifications of the bat ... Conversely, shaved, rolled and heated bats do yield those prohibited changes ...

Real Dave, I totally hear what you are saying. But why does it not apply to the balls? The balls are very dangerous when used in Temps in the 40's & 50's? Players in their upper 60's, 70's & 80's when they play in the cold weather their reaction time is SLOWER, it also can cause your Muscles, Tendons and Ligaments to become STIFFER and LESS FLEXIBLE. That is putting players in danger. It is recommended by the Bat companies Not to use their bats in temps under 64 degrees. Dave, you can go online and you can find all the Manufactures recommendations. I read online that using composite bats in cold weather makes the bat harder and could cause the bat to CRACK. Isn't the cold weather ALTERING the bat ALSO? The recommendations say do not use your bat.

Other Dave ... The operative rule, for BOTH softballs and bats, is that SSUSA wants them to be used in a "temperature neutral environment" ... That means no softball "chilling" and no bat "heating" from whatever the natural outside environmental conditions are at game time at the venue ... Generally, nobody is going to heat a softball, and that's why most good directors do not store/keep softballs in direct sunlight or the trunk of a vehicle parked in the sun ...

Players think "chicks dig the long ball!" ... Players also generally won't admit it, but they will assume some level of increased risk of bat breakage before they voluntarily hit a warmer, and therefore softer, softball that won't carry as far as a cooler ball ... So, if the softer ball is out of the equation, that leaves only the bat side of the bat/ball combination formula in play ...

Dave Dowell, I do not understand WHY ASA/USA Softball has anything to say what goes on in SSUSA? ASA/USA softball members are anywhere from 18-40 years old. My Nephew is one of them. They are STRONGER, QUICKER/FASTER and more FLEXIBLE not to mention more DARING and have better reaction times than players in there 60's-80's.
There are a lot of Senior Players that are on fixed incomes, they can NOT afford to keep buying bats at these prices. Also, players in the 65-85 age bracket using a
SOLAR WARMER probably do not break bats as often as the younger players do. Senior Softball USA can modify any rule these please. All we are asking is to ALLOW the older age brackets to use a SOLAR WARMER. NO ROLLING of BATS, NO SHAVING of BATS and NO PROPANE HEATERS of ANY KIND. PERIOD!!!! ASA/USA changed their pitching heights a few years ago. Which made it more dangerous for a pitcher. It is obvious they are thinking things through either. A few years ago SSUSA allowed 65 year old's to have 11 defensive players. WHY? We did not ask for it. A lot of players still do not like that rule.
PLEASE talk to the COMMITTEE again and let them know that it's membership whats the use of some kind of SSUSA approved Solar Warmer for age groups of 65 and up, ONLY. As a board member. Don't you feel obligated to bring this to the Board knowing how it's members feel? You can do it with a conference call. OR, at least post a survey on the message board and let it's members vote. SSUSA can change any rule it wants.

Dave Dowell, Thank you, you just proved our point. A WARM BALL DOES NOT TRAVEL AS FAR AS A COLD/COOLER BALL. Nobody, I mean NOBODY was complaining about the use of a Bat Warmer. Why is it now an issue?

Dave Dowell, Please do not close this thread. A lot of your members want to be heard

DBLB32 ... At the risk of further promoting cyclical redundancy on this topic: I was the only member of the National Rules Committee who favored exempting completely passive bat warmers from the current rule ... For the record, I was the one who got clobbered 1-9 in the vote on the issue! ... I fully respect every decision the Committee makes, especially the ones where I voted with the minority because it makes me examine the other side of the same coin ... The problem with my "position" was that I was proposing we carve out an "exception" to the firm rule prohibiting the use of altered bats ... I was wrong for proposing it, and the majority was correct not to do so ...

Grandpa ... We won't close/delete this thread so long as everyone behaves with the same decorum in "our house" they would demand in their own homes ... There's no hurry in any event ... The National Rules Committee is about 11½ months from reconvening for the 2025 sessions ...

Dave, Why wait? Knowing what you are hearing from your members, knowing it is an unpopular move by SSUSA, WHY WAIT? You do know you are going to hear about this from players all year long. But if SSUSA changed it to allow 65 and up age groups to usa a solar warmer you probably won't hear a word.

Merry Christmas

Grandpa ... In my sole view, the most compelling reason to wait rather than trying to force an Emergency Meeting is that you are nowhere near having the number of votes you would need for passage of a change, ANY change, to the definition of what constitutes an altered bat ... Right now, you mayhave, at most, exactly one vote, INCLUDING mine! ... The membership mostly applauded our efforts last season to aggressively go after "altered bats", and we are not going to abandon that campaign ... So, it would be a monumental accomplishment to somehow convince a majority of that governing body that, "Well, we've now decided that some altered bats are OK to use, if you're at least __ years young AND if the temperature is less than __° at game time." ... Right now, the votes simply aren't there, and quite possibly might never be there ...

P.S. - We heard about the new "Batter's Box" rule all last Season, but everyone seems to have survived that noise machine relatively unscathed ...

Mason's Grandpa,

While I think overall this is a terrible rule and will eventually cost SSUSA some money in the long run because teams just aren't going to risk $240+ bats to play tourneys in April in cold weather states. None of that really matters to SSUSA if they think they are doing the right thing. I stand by my statement that I believe the vast majority of the National Rules committee either have never played softball or the game has long passed them by and they no longer play so none of it really matters to them anyhow. I do know for sure that the members who did vote on this at no time reached out to the players in their area to get a feel for what the players wanted or thought on the subject. At the end of the it's SSUSAs game and they make the rules you're just beating a dead horse, they don't care what we want.

But I do have to ask why in the world are you trying to only advocate for the 65+ to be allowed to use a solar bat warmer? As players we are all supposed to be in this together but more importantly, why would 65+ need the warmers more than the younger guys? I doubt many guys that age are breaking many bats to begin with if anyone would need them it would be the 50s that need them more. But at the end of the day the rules need to be consistent for everyone.

Consistently negative, erroneous and recklessly offensive guest commentary sure gets tedious quickly ... We've had enough of that, so here's my final contribution to this thread:
• SSUSA WILL NOT BE ALLOWING ALTERED EQUIPMENT, INCLUDING "HEATED BATS" IN GAMES
• SSUSA WILL NOT BE REDEFINING WHAT CONSTITUTES ALTERED EQUIPMENT
• THE NEXT SCHEDULED NATIONAL RULES COMMITTEE SESSIONS ARE IN NOVEMBER

Mason’s Grandpa, I can tell that you are passionate about this and understand. Just like this item, you can submit your suggestions to the rules committee for consideration. You can also attend and present your thoughts. They do listen, and all have been involved with softball for years. The only thing that I will say is that it would be.very problematic to have umpires monitor temperature for warmer use.

Wanted to say to all my softball Braddahs, mahalo for your questions n concerns. Awesome discussion n insights. Been doing this for awhile now n consider Dave D. a friend. Thus, I wanted to share that I believe Dave doesn’t wake up to mess with people n is not malicious in his attempt to help run these tournaments! Remember expectations can be the predetermination to resentment! Stay healthy n safe…God bless.
Aloha, Fabe

Just Read that Dudley has developed 2 new Senior model bats. The JohnO28 and the Mason’s Grandpa Bats. Still in development is the DBLB32. These will all have internal Bat Warmers with a switch on the knob that’s Linked to the National Weather Service which doesn’t work unless it’s 65 degrees or less after 8:00 am. Bats are Guaranteed safe,not to break and to pass Compression testing. These will not be available in ASA/USA models.

Also in development is the NOTDAVE2000 Ball Warmer along with the WINDEX self-cleaning 44/375 Softball. All should be available soon (upon SSUSA approval).
STAY TUNED!


The caveat is that to Purchase you must sign the “Too Much Time on my hands” Waiver agreeing not post the same argument 30 different ways on the (SSUSA)Senior Softball website.

I get it that SSUSA is not going to change to allow bat warmers until the next rules committee meeting. No problem there - but in the interim, it might be worth understanding the science behind the testing vs. simply stating that bat warmers constitue "altering the bat" without data to support that assertion. The ASTM standard is readily available and as noted in other threads on here, testing is done at 72F +/-4F and 40-60% humidity. That includes the balls, the bat(s) and the testing chamber with a specified period for equilibration.

There is a lot going on when playing in 40F up to >100F at different times of the year and in different altitudes, humidity, etc. The calculation for BPF includes the COR of the ball (in the denominator) so as the COR changes, that impacts the calculation to the extent the BBCOR doesn't change proportionally.

We know balls get harder in colder weather and are more likely to break a senior bat than when the temperature is warmer. Not too much debate there.

What isn't clear is if a ball that is at 45F is combined with a bat heated to 80-100F results in a BPF of greater than 1.21. If it does, then it makes sense that bat warmers should not be allowed. If it does not, then the statement that the bat is "altered" is incorrect and bat warmers "could" be allowed to protect the bats.

A discussion for late 2025.

Mr Dowell, I have a couple of legitimate(at least I think they are) questions. If you have the time, please answer.

If a player or team is in violation of using a bat warmer, what is the penalty? Is there a warning because of ignorance (so claimed)of the rule or a one and done violation standard?

Is a player allowed to prop up his bat on the fence in the sun prior to and during a game?

There are sanctioned SSUSA tournament listed at the bottom of the tournament page. One of these being in Oregon in mid March called the icebreaker. The name says it all. Does the official SSUSA rules regarding warmers apply to this tournaments?

At what point is a bat warmer not allowed at a tournament? When a player steps on the property? When the game starts?

Thanks.

This just in. There will be no tournaments in Arizona during the summer.

Dbax.. Got it. Bats will get to hot MATURELY by the Sun.

NATURELY

Yep. And that will make them fail the compression test and make them dangerous!

There is still a little sanity in softball, from NCSSA email:

Penalty for the use of bat warmers is the same as for shaved bats – suspension for up to 10 years.

Now for the positive news!!!!

Managers at the NCSSA annual meeting voted NOT to accept this rule.
Therefore, the use of bat warmers will continue to be considered acceptable at NCSSA tournaments.
Play NCS.

FFDonnie,

Yeah but NCS is the same company that got called out last week for 2 ridiculous things.
First they told teams that if they book at least 5 rooms per team at one of their host hotels they team would be charged a $75 fee.
Secondly, they also were demanding that the photographers who show up to events had to pay $100 a day for the ability to take pics at their events. Which is higher than normal but the key factor was what they had to do with the pictures. Part of the deal was not only do they have to pay the $100 fee to NCS but they were required to post every single pics they took on FB. Now these guys work by selling pics they take. Who is going to pay them for pictures when every single pic they took is posted on FB. Anyone can get them for free then.

The bat warmer rule and considering bats to "altered" because they have been heated is unfair to players and should be changed. The bats are not being altered, they are being protected. Being forced to use bats that cost over $250. and come without a warranty during cold weather that could very possibly break the bat is obviously unfair, and doing so in the name of safety is completely erroneous. Using that logic, leaving bats in the sun in July and August should also be illegal. Swinging a (physically) hot bat in the summer months is no more unsafe than swinging a heated bat in the spring. The concept of this thread is non sensical by its very nature. Please post the evidence that supports this rule, I'd like to see it. The rule should be changed.

Two thumbs up to JNL. That’s it in a nutshell. When I first heard about the rule change I thought it was Webbie posting an April Fools gag!

I am a foul line to foul line singles hitter. When it gets below 60 I use a bat warmer. Wow what a difference!! NO wait. There is no difference. I am still a singles hitter. I am just very sure my new 2025 AT 18 will still be there for my next at bat.

Using plastic bat warmers in 30°,40°. 50°60° weather is only to protect the bat from cracking. Making this illegal is absolutely ridiculous. You can't come to better resolution before going from one extreme to another ?

NorCal Softball voted to still ALLOW Bat Warmers. The association has been losing teams the past few years. I feel since they are keeping the use of bat warmers the numbers will grow again in 2025. The other association in Sacramento is now being run by SSUSA staff. That means Bat Warmers will be ILLEGAL.

I would like to hear from the Bat Manufactures. I want to hear what they think?
Like someone posted on a different Thread. We should ALL send a Bill to Senior Softball for reimbursement of their broken bats.

Maybe we should either NOT use our bats if we play when the Temp is under 64° or just do not enter the Tournament until May, Depending on where you live.


Full Count, Before they voted on this rule, Senior Softball should have asked the players what they think. Let the players vote on this rule.