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Online now: 3 members: SB#8, TABLE SETTER 11, TonyA; 126 anonymousDiscussion: How About A Ball Policy Statement
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| July 5, 2004 Sam Lee Men's 60 31 posts | How About A Ball Policy Statement In view of the movement to clean up the cheating in softball, I think the associations and their tourny directors need to sign a Ball Policy Statement that assures all players and managers that the compression of the ball furnished is exactly as stamped. Any manager can challenge a ball at anytime and confiscate the ball and pay for independent testing. If the ball comes back as stamped or higher then no consequences. But if it comes back at a lower compression than what is stamped then the association and tourny director will be banned for 2 years. Guilty intent will be presumed. There have been complaints lately about the ball furnished by certain associations and a Ball Policy Statement ought to help. No more fudging or "customizing " of balls as some have alleged. Integrity needs to start at the top. |
| July 5, 2004 MK39 Men's 50 333 posts | Sam Lee: The current Ball policy between the softball organazations and the ball manufactuers is something like this. Balls can be banned if found to exceed the core and or compression values. No penalty for them playing it safe and going under those standards. I believe a peramter should be set up to where it can neither exceed nor can it decrease more the a small percentage to allow for mass production. 10 Years ago, a couple of teamamates invented a ball warmer, which would have kept the softballs in a machine at 70 degrees period until it was used. if the balls were filtered in and out of the innings often enough, we would have some consistency going. Any thoughts on that. Thanks Mike Kelly Kelly's Sports 50+ |
| July 5, 2004 Sam Lee Men's 60 31 posts | Mike, my point is that I have hit ballls furnished by tourny directors that were supposed to be of a certain specification, when in fact I had better balls in my practice bag. I am more concerned about the representations made to players than what associations and manufacturers do between themselves. If I take off 3 or 4 days and spend several hundred dollars go to a national tourny to play and they say I will hit a 47 cor, 525lb compression ball then I want it to be just that and not just stamped to say that when it is really significantly less and they know it is less. They don't want us to cheat. Well, neither should the associations. |
| July 5, 2004 MK39 Men's 50 333 posts | Sam Lee: I am with you on the ball subject but just like with the bats, the softball oganzations are only ok with the ball being less then what it says but not better. I have played in tournys before where the ball was total junk and promised to never come back to that event again. Seems some TD's will even buy blem or defective balls to save a buck. Just never go back to the Tournaments where they do things like this and warn all other players on boards like this when you find those kinds of events and TD's. Because of the poor ball used in Blaine last year in the USSSA worlds, the USSSA folks took some hits on the ball issue and came back this year with a 525 compression ball. I complained hard to the same USSSA lawyer who's phone number i will give to you if you still want it and he promised a much better ball for this year and it looks like he is coming thru on his promise. Now the guy in Va. who i have never met and probably will never meet should listen to the complints and do something about it, he should made an effort to reach back to those teams if he ever expects them to come back again. Thanks Mike Kelly Kelly's Sports 50+ |
| July 5, 2004 Sam Lee Men's 60 31 posts | You have a good idea,boycott, but it won't work. Players aren't organized. There are a limited number of senior tourneys and so if you want to play then you have to play what is offered. |
| July 5, 2004 MK39 Men's 50 333 posts | Sam Lee: I read a different post on this subject in which Larry L. from the texas 55 major + team made this statement; The ball was a Worth Gold Dot that I could not read even early in the game. It was supposed to be a 44 COR, 375 compression ball. RB Thomas told us the "good" balls did not get there in time for us to use them. One of our guys sent one of the game balls to be tested and it came back rated at 300 compression. I say that If the ball was a new ball early in the game and he could not read the words on the ball and it came back from retesting at 300 lbs. psi, then i would say the man bought and used blem balls knowing that they were crap, and that would be good enough reason to boycott his events. I am only speaking for myself here as a sponser that would not ever bring my team back. If other teams know this might be the practice and still want to go, then that is up to them but i would put the word out on him if he did that to me. Thanks Mike Kelly Kelly's Sports 50+ |
| July 5, 2004 Sam Lee Men's 60 31 posts | Actually, talking to the USSSA lawyer would achieve nothing. The only thing important to a litigator, if he is one, is the outcome in court. And that may eventually happen. If the USSSA is so conserned about being fair then why do they allow the SCX2 when almost no one can find one? Do you have any for sale-1st batch? |
| July 5, 2004 Sam Lee Men's 60 31 posts | In my opinion, a TD always knows the quality of the balls being furnished. That is why I suggested a Ball Policy Statement. TDs and associations should also be held responsible and suffer consequences. |
| July 5, 2004 MK39 Men's 50 333 posts | Sam Lee: There was an obvious difference of opinion last year when NSA banned the SCX2 but USSSA did not. NSA claims to have found a SCX2 that went over the BPF1.2 while USSSA claims that they did not find one that went over. Should USSSA ban it just because NSA decided to = NO. ASA left the SCX2 and the Miken Ultra 2 legal until 01/01/2004 at which time the new testing standards took over. I used the Miken Ultra 2 at the 45 ASA Nationals last year in Indianapolis, In. so i know this to be the case. I have not had a SCX2 1st batch Synergy since March of last year for resale. I did sell some the of 2nd batch until i found out it was changed and at that point in time cancelled all orders for the SCX2. I did save some of the 1st batch Synergys for my Kelly's Sports and plan to use them at the USSSA worlds as it is prefectly legal. Back to the Balls, USSSA has a 2 ball policy which takes climate into the equation. Expect to see 525 compression balls in Fl. The ASA and the Des Moines tournaments are both going straight ASA and it will have to be 375 compression balls at both those events. Plano last year was a 525 compression and a real good ball but i am not going and i am not sure what Ridge plans on using. Thanks Mike Kelly Kelly's Sports 50 + |
| July 5, 2004 Sam Lee Men's 60 31 posts | I still say there ought to be consequences if tghe TD does not furnish the ball advertised. Right down to thye compression. |
| July 5, 2004 Sam Lee Men's 60 31 posts | I'm getting tired. My typing is awful. |
| July 6, 2004 DoubleL10 Men's 70 907 posts | Sam and Mike-Let me turn my hat around now and speak in the ISF tournament director's defense. I know RB Thomas personally and believe him to be an honorable man. I personally talked to him about the balls we wound up using and was told the balls they were supposed to have for the tournament did not arrive in time. That said, I would suppose that he had to go to some sort of fall-back balls that may have been blems or just donated balls. RB did tell me that each game started out with one new ball. But they did not hold up well and got dirty quickly and were hard to pick up off the bat in the outfield. Last year in the ISSSA we had the same problem but the good balls did arrive (late). And it sure made a difference with how our team played. I suppose part of it is psycological, but that's the way it is with some of us older guys! LL |
| July 6, 2004 MK39 Men's 50 333 posts | DoubleL10: I used to run tournaments. I let them swing the best bat at the time, the DeMarini double wall distance and gave them the best ball out at the time = 50 core high compression Worth Red Dots. Always had the balls ready for my little 8 to 10 team events well in advance of the event. So did this TD for a world event in Va. order the better balls at the last minute or what. He straight up hosed all you guys and now he is feeding you a line of BS trying to clean it up. I called and spoke to SSUSA = Las Vegas and NASCS = Des Moines about them both going with a 375 compression ball in climates better then 90 Degrees, Vegas will be over 100 degrees and the negative effect it will have on a 375 compression ball. Both Organizations have promised to re evaluate the using of a 375 ball. Even though we will get to use the U2 in Las Vegas, the 375 Ball itself will be horible because of the heat and there will be some unhappy guys afterwards. I went on to explain that if you take away the home runs by lessing both the bats and the balls then they will turn the senior game into world war 3 like they have done with the kids game, meaning that the middle will be open and the chances for injuries will go up. Cmon you guys, we are at least 50 or better, dont penalize us . let us have some fun and at least hit a good 525 compression softball. We can use a lesser bat but combining it with a lesser ball is just not right. JMO Mike Kelly Kelly's Sports 50+ |
| July 6, 2004 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | You're right on the money Mike! If they take away the hr you might see more injuries by batted balls! |
| July 6, 2004 DoubleL10 Men's 70 907 posts | Mike and Bruce-I'm with you guys on this! The normal place a hitter goes if there are no home runs is the middle. I've seen it in young guys and senior ball. With the low compression balls, I don't think anyone worries about the pitcher getting hit which has been such a rallying cry, according to some, to soften up the balls. Our pitcher got one of these balls hit back at him in Virginia and he told me he could SQUEEZE the ball and feel how soft it was. We were using the Worth Gold Dot 44 COR, 375 compression balls in about 85 degree weather. |
| July 6, 2004 MK39 Men's 50 333 posts | DoubleL10: Most times it is just the flight taken out of the lower compression balls and the core remains hard as a rock. The cover of the ball soften ups and will loosen up as well in weather over 80 degrees, gets real bad at 90 degrees and forget it at 100 degrees.. The real difference is in how far the ball will travel. Now if it is still getting thru the infield at great speed and is as hard as a 525 compression, how does that help a pitcher??/ This whole thing has just been a bad joke from ASA and i applaud USSSA on there 2 Ball system. 375 for cooler climates and a 525 for warmer , hotter climates. They are making a lot more sense here without a doubt. Larry, i am Looking forward to seeing you in Panama Beach, Take Care Mike Kelly Kelly's Sports 50+ |
| July 8, 2004 TaterinGa Men's 50 179 posts | I am with JAH Masters & the Last 2 Tourneys after hitting several homeruns, I have heard from the opposing dugout, he is swinging a hot Miken. I have no clue what that means, so I figured that they thought I had spent hundreds of dollars to repaint the 5 old Velocites that I presently swing. Here are some measurements that might help everyone. Original Velocite versus Miken U2 (I borrowed one, never owned one). The MSVE-1 Original Velocite has a 13 3/4" long barrel to taper; the U2 is 13 1/4". The MSVE-1 knob is 11/16" thick; the U2 is 9/16" thick. The MSVE-1 from end of knob measuring 10 3/4", the diameter is 15/16"; the U2 @ same distance is 13/16" thick. This shows a 1/8" difference. The reason I do not use altered bats: 1. I am a Christian 2. That is cheating 3. They probably cost a lot 4. I would not be a good representation to my wife, children & fellow teammates. 5. If I cannot hit it out with the proper equipment, I will change my swing & go for base hits. Thanks Taterman |
| July 8, 2004 TaterinGa Men's 50 179 posts | Sorry I placed this in the wrong sector. Taterman |
| July 8, 2004 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | John, anyone that knows you knows that you can hit a wadded up Dixie cup out with a broom stick! The Velicite Maxload IMO is almost as good as the U2. Congratulations on the ISA Senior National Championship! |
| July 11, 2004 jah#4 Men's 70 576 posts | Everyone talks about the bats but the balls really controls the game. you can look at the last several tourney and you will not see the home runs as that was in the past. you see players adjusting the what ball that is furnished and when they do they win. The SSUSA tourney was a good example of the ball controling the outcome, the teams where using the U II and there where limited hrs hit. |
