Finally, there are LIDAR devices that can detect the 12 ft. pitching height. It's now kinda reasonable to assemble a unit together and place them on the fields.
Check Ebay for such devices.
360° Lidar Sensor Scanner Laser Ranging Radar Module Detecting Radius 8M LiDAR
It would be easy to assemble these devices and attach them to a detector that would notify us of a pitch exceeding the 12 ft. pitch limit.
What do you think?
Sorry, I can't post the Ebay URL for this.
Is it too advanced for SSUSA or we should only adhere to human detection of the game??

"EXACTLY"

You gotta be kidding you cannot be SERIOUS, keep the human factor in the game 100%.
Im surprised you didn't mention a pitch clock also, how about and electronic home
plate to call balls and strikes. Leave the game alone why try to fix something that isn't
broken. WOWWWW!!!!

nickname36, thanks for your opinion. I disagree.
12' pitching height is a rule.
Many umpires do not enforce the pitching height rule, and some pitchers take advantage of this by cheating, hence the desire for better enforcement of the rule.
To use your style of argument, perhaps along with ignoring illegal pitches we can also give batters 4 strikes when we want to. Maybe change the required outs in an inning to 2 when it benefits your team.
It seems the only people complaining about enforcement of pitch height are pitchers and teams who need to cheat to be effective.

Your ridicule of the OP is very disrespectful. How would you like if if I said spelling wow in all caps, with 5 W's and 4 exclamation points, is something 12 year old girls do?

Exactly!

kotonk - I believe that while the enforcement of the 6 to 12' arc is not consistent at all, adding this device into a tournament setting would cause more issues as well as expense to TD's than it's currently worth? I always try and give feedback to TD's if I feel an umpire or two need "help" with their definition of 6 - 12 but other than that, I just try and make sure I understand their strike zone before it costs me (ex. pitch comes in at 4' and they call it a strike, I simply ask "is that going to be a strike all game?" and this way I don't let a low strike 3 get me out).

LC7 - I am a pitcher and so what I am reading is if I throw a pitch that is 13 feet high or 4 feet low, you are telling me I am a "cheater"? I don't have a height gage with me when I throw so I do count on the umpire to understand the difference between the 2 to some extent. And when they don't and they won't allow me to pitch over 10 ft (happens more than you might believe), are they cheaters? Yeah, I am focused on that word because it has a very negative connotation. I pitch they way the umpires allow me and if they call a pitch illegal, REGARDLESS IF IT ISN'T (and yes, I am an umpire as well), then I have to throw another pitch or that batter walks, basically a "such is life" event. To me, cheaters are players who shave bats, allow illegal players on their roster, throw their game balls in the cooler, etc. To me, that is the true definition of cheating but you do you sir, good luck!

mck71, good point about legal pitches being called illegal. That must be very frustrating for you.
My point was about players who pitch over the legal limit on purpose, for an advantage. That's why I said "some" pitchers.
I didn't mean to denigrate all pitchers who happen to throw a ball over 12', but I do call those that do it on purpose cheaters.
I just want to play by the rules.

It was not a suggestion. Just like I wrote, a "wild idea". So, take it easy!! It was just a hairbrain idea and obviously, we're not ready for it.
I umpire too and those who know me know that I carry a sectional PVC 12 ft. pole to tournaments to show managers/players where MY 12 ft. limit is at. So I allow pitches higher than others.
10 ft. is not illegal!!

LC7

So what your saying any illegal pitch is cheating. Now are you saying MLB pitchers are cheating when the they throw a high pitch out of the zone and it called a strike or a low pitch that is called a strike or an outside pitch or an inside pitch out of the strike zone is called a strike? I pitched SP for almost 20 years and Its all about getting the batter to hit your pitch regardless of where you pitch it, what the umpire calls that's the way it goes. I loved having an umpire that gave me the high strike(pitch) that's why I was never got hit with a line drive up the middle. Learn your umpires and use them to your advantage as a pitcher the other team is gonna do the samething.

Remember you STILL have to score more runs then the other team your playing to win......

This whole 12 top has always been a problem/. Sorry, but there is not an ump in the history of softball that knows what 12 feet is. I pitch and play OF. I have seen the same ump totally change his opinion from game to game.

I am a strong believer that the top should be 10 feet. An ump can easily determine the approx. height of the pitcher and adjust 3+ to 4+ feet or so over his head.

I believe this would reduce walks and add mor hits and action to a game.

Awe come on Gary, you have been around long enough to know you can't make absolute statements like that. I definitely know what 12 feet is and have been around quite a few that know it as well. I will add it has gotten lower since USA/ASA went to 10 feet. I would say in my experience, more times than not it has been flat pitches more so that high ones but that might be just me.

And LC7 - My brother, it's a big yellow ball, we throw it slowly underhand to guys who mostly spend their time hitting (you don't see many fielding or baserunning video's on YT :-) So yeah, when I get ahead in the count, I seriously doubt Oreo will be on the menu but again, that's just me so if that makes me a cheater, well... it is what it is! :-)

Best of luck to all this season!

Not only will I stick with my previous thot- umps often take an xtra second or two to determine the high pitch and spit out Illegal. It is often too late for the hitter to do something positive. Even at the Masters in 2024, we experienced a lack of consistency not only game to game but sometimes inning to inning.

LC7, you are correct in stating that the 12' limit is the rule for calling a strike. Some umpires are pretty good at it, some are bad in both directions (allowing 13', and not allowing over 10'6"). These are judgement calls and no different than a call on the bases. If the batter/runner touches first base before the first baseman touches the bag while in possession of the ball or tags the runner while in possession of the ball, the batter/runner is safe. Yet it happens where the umpire sees it one way, while everyone else on the field sees it the other way. Again, it is a judgement call.

If you want to take the human element out of pitch height, because it might affect the game, then why not for the rest of the game? A blown call in the 7th inning can definitely cost a team a game they would have won if the call went the correct way.

I don't know of any umpires that purposely make incorrect calls. I think they all go out there and call it as they see it. Some are better than others, but without them all, we aren't playing this game we love (at least at this point in time where we still use umpires). Umpiring isn't easy, as you will always have grown men and women complaining about a call at some point in 90% of the games played. Yet the reality is, if the players don't make errors and hit it well enough so that there are no close plays, they won't have things to complain about.

It's like boxing and UFC, "don't leave it in the hands of the judges". If we do our job for 7 innings, their job gets a whole lot easier.

Hi yankeesfan12,

No, i'm not asserting every illegal pitch is cheating.
I've only played slowpitch for 40 years, so I don't have as much experience as many of you guys, but in my opinion it's a rare pitcher who doesn't throw a high pitch or a flat pitch after getting 2 strikes on a batter. I ask umpires to watch for that illegal pitch if they call no others. I don't like it when my own pitcher does it.

As you point out, if an umpire refuses to call the illegal pitches, some batters will take matters into their own hands and go middle to hit the pitcher. That's not good for the game.

I'd rather see the pitching height rule enforced so there is more offense in the game, less walks, and fewer foul-outs. Equal for both teams. This topic is not the most important issue in the game, but I believe it is worth discussing.

Opinions vary, and i'm thankful for the discourse.

SS11, I agree with most of your post.
I've seen some umpires that are either apathetic about the pitching rule or not able to gauge height accurately. Any method to help umpires identify illegal pitches is a good thing for the game. We have foul lines to help them determine fair balls.

I've umpired many games, and you are right that regardless of your call someone will be upset about it. It's a thankless job. I enforce the pitch height rule. It usually only takes 1 or 2 "illegal" calls to get the pitcher to stay in the legal range.

I'm not dying on this hill and I don't want a robot umpire instead of a human, but if we can make it easier for them to get it right, shouldn't we?

LC7

As a pitcher its my job is to make you hit MY pitch I won't give you a cookie even if the count is 3 balls & 1 strike. As for hitting it up the middle bring it on you have a pitcher to, enough said about that and your right its not good for the game. I won't and never give into guys that what a pitch right down the middle waist high if you want that go play your local city "E-" league or go to the batting cages where that's all you get is cookies.

I would be doing a huge disservice to my teammates that all paid alot of money for there equipment and to play in these big out of town tournaments if I throw cookies to every batter.

Like I said its my job to make you hit MY pitch good bad or ugly and let the umpires call it as they see it I can make adjustments accordingly on the fly.

If I was playing another position and my pitcher was throwing cookies pitch after pitch and they were getting hit after hit and scoring run after run we would be having a heart to heart heated conversation between innings.

You're right, yankeesfan12.
I wouldn't pitch cookies either. I guess my beef should only be with the umpire not calling those pitches illegal. Thank you for the perspective.
At the end of the day i'm only in charge of me.

"EXACTLY"

Funny thing here is as a batter I have time to adjust to the 12ft plus pitch but not the under 6ft pitch. Under 6ft is my problem.
I’m good with the umpires making their calls one way or the other. It’s slow pitch softball.

LOL! It's Senior Softball! Leave it alone, we're gonna complain/suggest our way out of a good thing!

I think this would be great,and I do think we need to keep the human element in the game. But this would be an exception, for no other reason than every time we meet with the umpire he always says,My 6 My 12. It’s hard enough for a pitcher to try and hit the small mat,and not try to throw pitches that might get them killed but they also have to deal with a different height limit in every game. If these were used then the pitchers and even the batters would know precisely where that limit is. It would also eliminate the late call by the umpire which messes up the batter. This would make it simple if the laser beeps it’s illegal and since it would beep the instant it hit the limit there would be plenty of time for the batter to react.

Shaner...

You have to be kidding about using beepers for height and flat pitch calls, what do you do about inside and outside pitches?

Why don't we just resort to having the batter throw the ball up in the air and hit it or why not use a batting tee to hit from. All your doing is ruining the game and making a travesty of slow pitch softball as know it.

WHAT PART OF DONT SCREW WITH THE GAME THE WAY IT IS PLAYED NOW AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN PLAYED.

If its not broke dont try and fix it, the umpires are not the problem there all human and do make mistakes which is all part of the game learn how to make adjustments in the batters box.

Yankeesfan12,

while I agree with you that the idea of using a beeper isn't the best idea but this is one of the most laughable things I've seen written on here in a long time:

If its not broke dont try and fix it, the umpires are not the problem there all human and do make mistakes which is all part of the game learn how to make adjustments in the batters box.

The fact that you think umpires aren't part of the problem is absolutely ridiculous. The simple truth is MOST umpires have no clue was a 12' pitch looks like and even less know how to call it. Hell some of them can't even tell when the ball hits the mat let alone what height it came in at. Then you go on to say that a batter needs to learn how to make adjustments in the box. There isn't a batter alive that can make up for poor umpiring. You can't adjust to an ump that can't tell pitch heights.. They are paid to do a job and many put in the least amount of effort as possible then say things like I'm only one person after having never come out from behind the plate a single time during a game.

Now that isn't saying it's all umps because it's not but overall the vast majority are so inconsistent at calling illegal pitches in not only sticking to a certain height but also calling it in a timely manner. Hell I've had umps call illegal as it's hitting the mat. It's not easy and I ump myself and make mistakes but at least I put in the effort, umps are paid pretty well for a part time job to not be better.

John - Part of the problem is where do these umpires come from who do our tournaments? Sadly there aren't many 12' sanctions outside of Senior ball. USA/ASA went to 10' a while back, NSA was always 10', USSSA is 3' from release with a cap of 10' and believe ISA is the same?. Add in that outside of USA/ASA, not one of those other sanctions has umpires calling "illegal" so without making excuses (even though this reads like one), most umpires don't have that experience with 12' AND (this is the big one), MOST players complain about the 12' pitch so rather than listen to the complaints, they simply seem to have 10' MAX as their height limits. We get a lot more 4 - 5' pitches than over 10' IMO.

And I know, they should TRY but sometimes they just don't. I am an umpire as well and I try and umpire as I would like my umpires to behave; I hustle, I keep game moving, I make sure scores are correct after each inning and my strike zone is the same in inning 1 and inning 7 and all in between. I will add that I have had to make adjustments to my "illegal" call simply because I am a loud guy and I would startle the batter! lol Now I make sure I say either "illegal" (usually a high pitch) and "flat" for a low one because I can say flat quicker than I can say illegal and most flat pitches come in quicker but I only say it loud enough for the batter and the catcher can hear me. I will point up to the pitcher to let them know if it's high or a palm down sign for flat so they understand what I called.

As far as compensation, I can't speak to that. I mean if they get $35 a game for 90 mins, that is a decent wage and I believe some make more than others but not easy for one guy to be out there for 6 games a day. I stopped doing tournaments for that reason, did 9 games in one day and by the last 2 games, which happened to be Championship games, my legs were heavy and I was tired so felt bad for the teams but they had no one else to do the games so I "sucked it up", but you get my point, I am never sure how many games they have done so not sure so I try and not complain too much.

And as for helping myself out, I simply try and pay attn to what the umpire is calling. I absolutely don't have to agree with their calls but I better be ready to hit a ball that I THINK they might call a strike or I am the idiot, right? :-)

Best of luck to everyone this year!

"EXACTLY"

john028..

Everything in your last post is very laughable especially about not being able to make adjustments on the fly you must not win a whole lot of tournaments. All sports are all about making adjustments as needed. Sounds like to me all your wanting is a belly button high pitch right down the middle, Im here to tell the other teams wants to win also and a good pitcher will take advantage of the umpire and his weakness right along with the batters weakness

I'm not up there batting looking for a walk ill hit the first good pitch I see, that way I dont leave in the umpires hands to make the right call. See it all about adjustments!!

Everything you do in life is all about making adjustments and remember the umpire/umpires makes calls for both teams, learn to the take advantage of this and make adjustments you'll win more games and not out of the tournament on Saturday.

Nickname36,

I've probably gotten more rings than you ever will.
The most laughable part is you start EVERY comment with "EXACTLY" and have absolutely no idea what the word means. You type "EXACTLY" and then argue every single point the person you're quoting stated.. The only time you should use "EXACTLY" is when you agree with the poster your quoting.

As far as making in game adjustments it's impossible to do with most umpires because they don't know how to consistently call games. Besides a good pitcher won't give you a good pitch he'll just make you think he's throwing a good pitch. But I get it you know everything about nothing. Keep working on that use of the word "EXACTLY"... Some day you'll knock it out of the park.

"EXACTLY"

john028 The laughable Chuck E Cheese slayer

Ok "SPARKY" how many ring do have?

Did you get your get rings from the gumball machine at the grocery store or did you get them from Chuck E Cheese pixie I here there slightly bigger there.

I bet your batting avg of 700/800 every game.

Remember life is all about making adjustments even at Chuck E Chees LOL LOL.

If using "EXACTLY" is all you have to come back at me with you need to make major adjustments. Hope to hear from you soon "SPARKY" I can't wait to read what you have to say about being called "SPARKY".

Wow you got me there with the Sparky thing. That's just a soul crushing comment. But in all reality I've been called worse by far better people than you.
I have no time for someone like you who would willing play ball with someone they knew shaved bats like you've already admitted to.

nickname36, why resort to ridicule and name calling? You're basically letting everyone know you have no logical argument.

Did you bother to read the bullet points beneath "About this Message Board"? One prohibits: "Disparaging comments directed toward any individual".

"EXACTLY"

JOHNNY..

Where does it say I said I used shaved bats?

Johnny you never said how many rings you have.

LC7..

"Sparky" is a name we use a lot in the dugout on the team among others. "come on sparky get a hit" nothing disparaging about that we use it to fire up the batter amoung others. Our dugout is never boring you need kinda thick skin to be a part of it. The wives even get into the fun form the stands nobody on the team is immune form a little ribbing now and then. Just about every player on the team also has a nickname to keep it loose in the dugout and on the field. One of the jabs is "put a band-aid on that cut" and there are so many more its almost never ending. The other teams compliment us on how well we get along and like the one liners. O-ya almost forgot we DO win a lot.

What a crock of $**t.

LC7,

The most ironic and best part of all this is I have been an electrican for the past 40 years so I've been called "Sparky" for 2/3 of my life. He resorts to name calling becuase that's all he knows...

Nickname36,

For my last interaction with you in any way shape or form, reading fundamental you should try it. I never said you swung shaved bats try to follow along... You were babbling on and on in another post that I think you might have even started about teammates swinging shaved bats and asked people if they would continue to play with a person knowing they swung shaved bats and if you would out them if you knew they did for sure. It's not worth my time to go back and look but you not only said you wouldn't say anything about them swinging shaved bats but would also continue to play on the same team with them and hang out with them. All 3 show you are everything that is wrong with this game..

Dave,
Might be time to close this feed.

John/ You been called "Sparky" for 40 years of your life and then you post "He resorts to name calling because that's all he knows" nice come back, being called "sparky" for 40 years didn't seem to bother you, why now.?

John/ Everybody is still waiting for the answer on how many rings you have, my guess 0(zero).

John/ Its a lot safer to sometimes walk away and mind your own business, have you heard of the saying "SNITCHES GET STITCHES" dont wanna be apart of that and then have a tag on you back as a snitch for the rest of my playing days. The bat thing will catch up to cheaters down the road sooner or later.

yankeesfan12,

As I said to Nickname36, reading is fundamental.. You should try it sometime, where did I say it bothered me? I never said it bothered me, I made fun of the fact he called me that because I've been hearing it for 40 years. I wasn't the one calling him out for name calling.

John/ We are still waiting for the answer to how many championship rings you have.

Any body playing this weekend?

Ya-all have good night & remember it all about adjustments.

From the looks of this discussion it appears that there may be a need to create a new 2-year old division

I love new ideas. Kudos to Kotonk for the idea. Please let's keep them coming. I'm all for debating the value of a new idea. I don't like disrespectful language or sarcasm. Those are attempts to shut down ideas. I tend to weed those types of comments out. The use of profanity, even if delineated with abbreviations, violates the rules of the message board. It states, "offer ideas and constructive suggestions for improving our organization and sport." Thanks.

Welcome to "our world" Bruce and LC7 and JimmyG! ... We left this one open just for laughs because we were curious how high the Anonymous-Keyboard-Courage-Clowns would raise the "jackass index" ... It wasn't much of a surprise out of those two ... Thanks for starting the thread, Jeffrey, and we're sorry it devolved so far so fast ... ... It's closed now ... Good luck and have fun running the Aloha Bowl in Hawaii next week! ...