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Discussion: The \"TOC\" make it a more major and fair event.

Posted Discussion
Feb. 28, 2008
Gary Heifner
248 posts
The "TOC" make it a more major and fair event.
With the TOC still being in its' infancy, the same questions and concerns are repeating already. Lack of teams, should play in the same year and using next years roster for some teams and others having to use this year's rosters. Simply have the Worlds in October, Winter nationals in November and the TOC the 1st week in December. NO, NO NO, this will not interfere with Thanksgiving or Christmas. This also means that you can't use next year's roster in the Winter Nationals. Play all tournies in the same calendar year. Also, my big objection is to spend the time and $ to go to Florida for a 2 or 3 team tourney. Gurantee an attempt for an"8" team tourney in each disision. Invite all Champs. Then extend an invite to 2nd place finishers until "8" are secured. No, the 2nd place teams did not win but there is usually only a single hit or two difference between the champ of a tourney and the 2nd team. It would make for a highly competitive/talented tourney with no weak opponents. Having the TOC in the same year would also make it a more level playing field for the 1000s of potential teams from the Northern USA who come in FEB and havn't swung a bat for 2-3 months due to weather.
Feb. 28, 2008
Men's 60
224 posts
GaryH- Like your post, and I agree with 2 things you said but disagree with another.

The Worlds are already in October and it looks like they will stay there for a while. The Winter Nationals and Worlds are already in November, so that will probably stay the same too. I'm from Tucson and the Southwest that used to be in early December is moving to April this year. That open December weekend would be great for the TOC. I don't know what contracts ssusa might have about the TOC, but that would sure be nice for the cold weather teams like yours. We're lucky enough to be able to play all year here so it doesn't make any difference to us.

I also agree that the past year rosters should be the only ones allowed. Even though there were 3 teams from the Tucson area in the TOC this year, and all of them were from the Southwest tournament with new rosters, none of them won. It just doesn't seem fair to me for a team with younger players playing in the TOC. I hope they fix that.

We disagree on the teams to invite. Our team was so close this year to making it. We lost the championship game that would have got us there by 1 run. But I still don't think we should have been invited. We didn't win. A few weeks ago I wrote here that I just can't get too excited by "Tournament of Champions and Almost Champions That Want to Play Even Thought They Didn't Qualify and Shouldn't Be There". I still feel that way even though a bunch of my friends here in Tucson who went said is was the best tournament they have ever played in, period. Winners got free rings from Jostens, every player got a great TOC polo shirt from Miken and everyone and their families got to go to a free dinner on Friday night. I agree with you that a December TOC would get more teams, but "more is better" isn't what the TOC is about. It's about Champions.

Just makes me wish we had played a little bit better when it mattered. Maybe this year.
Feb. 28, 2008
Men's 50
302 posts
My team attended the TOC and enjoyed it! Well run and the games were all competitive.

However, we also played in the Winter National's in Florida in November and it was also well run and the games again were all competitive. We did not have any push-overs.
I really did not see much differance.

I would not have a problem with having 2nd place teams invited. If you want to get more teams there you may have to do that.

My other point would be that there would be no way we would have played in Ft Myers in November and then played in the TOC if it had been in December. That would have been tough to work out. Moving it to January would be OK i think, that would at least give us a little time
to plan another trip.

Just my thoughts.
Feb. 28, 2008
Men's 60
102 posts
Our team has been fortunate enough to make it to TOC both years that they have had it. I beleive they had 116 teams the first year and only 84 this year. Obviously the timing for this one is not good especially for cold weather teams. Out of the divisions of three or more teams, I beleive there were 18, only 3 cold teams won if that means anything. They have moved the TOC up for 2009 to Jan 9th-10th and 11th right after the holidays where people probably take vacations between the 2. To me that was not very smart. I know our team if we happen to qualify again will probably not be going back because of this. What happened to score keepers, we had none.
Feb. 28, 2008
Men's 60
224 posts
grumpy55- Congrats on making it both years. If you're right about the January dates for 2009, that's not good being so close to the holidays. February would be better if December isn't available. Also, I seem to remember that there were about 95 or so teams last year, not 116.
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