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Online now: 2 members: TABLE SETTER 11, dawg888; 97 anonymousDiscussion: Phoenix 60 major plus
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| Oct. 19, 2008 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Phoenix 60 major plus Had as great a time as you can have coming in second to a better team, Turn 2. Congratulations Donnie, Clatter, Mike Smith, Andy and the rest. You guys came back and double dipped us as only true champions can do. But that wasn't the most dramatic highlight of the event. Toward the end of the first double elimination match for GSF and Turn 2 Butch Hayes was knocked unconscious attempting to field a ground ball at shortstop. It's obvious he never turned or looked away. It happened just before we arrived at the field. Butch took a direct shot "right between the eyes" and was laying there waiting for the emergency wagon to take him to the hospital. When we spoke and I saw he recognized me I felt he was going to be OK. Well, they took him to the hospital for all the tests and after a couple of hours and he came back drugged up, still dazed and looking like he spent 10 rounds in the ring with a young Muhammed Ali. I saw him grab a bat toward the end of our final game and could only smile that he wanted to come back in. Butchie comes in with the bases loaded, score tied one out and me hoping he hits me a ground ball and we can play another inning. With 2 strikes he ripped a line drive into left field and won much more than the game and tournament for his guys. I don't have to tell a lot of you guys who Butch Hayes is but this demonstrates the true championship character of the MAN inside of one the best softball players ever. Get well, soon, Butch and thanks for inspiring me to be a truer man and better player. |
| Oct. 20, 2008 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Thought the balls were barely OK in the hot Phoenix sun. Turn 2 had a ton o balls and kept throwing a new one in to start each inning as well as to set up one of their long ball guys. Once they got hit a couple of times they were dramatically less pop-py. The weather was 95 every day. Caesar Chavez fields were well maintained and watered, raked and re-lined after each game. Our umps did a very good job. Way to go, Rudy and it was great seeing Fran, the queen Bee, graciously greeting players and monitoring all events. |
| Oct. 20, 2008 turn2 489 posts | Joe, Thanks for the compliments. All of the teams hit well and it was a pleasure playing great competition. We got really lucky to come back on you guys. We got some key hits at the right time. Oh yeah, the fields were excellent. They did a great job after every game. The fileds looked brand new to start each game. Talked to Butch sunday and he was a little more black and blue but was doing better. See you guys next year. Thanks, Donnie Turn Two Collectibles |
| Oct. 20, 2008 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Butch really pitched in when Jimmy Butrico and Mike Walker colided in Manassas. We all thank him. I hope he has a full recovery. |
| Oct. 21, 2008 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | What I liked most about the balls we used that performed not so well in the sun was their cover. Being a pitcher this is very important having a cover that even out of the box is easy to grip and position in the hand. Bruce, Butch is a man and a half and showed us all what a champion, a real man looks like. |
| Oct. 21, 2008 turn2 489 posts | The Ball were pretty good if you used plenty of them, but the heat did slow them down. Joe, You guys did not have any problems hitting any home runs. You guys hit more in that one game(8) than we hit the whole weekend. I think we hit 11 in all 6 of our games. It was a great weekend I just wish there were more teams for us to play. They only had 16 major teams in there bracket. Thanks, Donnie |
| Oct. 22, 2008 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Donnie, You guys put a brand new ball in every inning, Donnie and then whenever you wanted to maximize your AB. That was within the rules. No problem. But those balls after couple of AB's hit much worse than the "pearls" you were hitting. Why would you keep replacing them if they were that good? It also gave more confidence to your batter that a well struck ball will find a hole more easily. No, those balls did not perform well in the heat by my standards. The ones Las Vegas LVSSA used this year, the MicroCell version hit better by great measure. |
| Oct. 22, 2008 turn2 489 posts | Joe, Note that I said if you used plenty of them. We only had 3 new balls left and I knew that would not be enough for the final game so I bought 6 more. So know I have 9 balls to use in this 7 inning game.I could not use these balls anywhere else so we hit 1 per inning and then another fresh one toward the end of the game. It was nice getting to hit our own ball even if it were so so. I liked be able to change the ball or to use 1 per inning if I wanted to do that. Thanks, Donnie |
| Oct. 23, 2008 CRUSADERVB Men's 70 275 posts | CONGRATS TO TURN2 ON WINNING THE 36 HOUR 60 MAJOR PLUS WORLD TOURNAMENT. I WENT TO DESERT WEST ON SUNDAY TO WATCH THE 60 MAJORS AND WATCHED 2 MAJOR PLUS TEAMS HIDING IN THE MAJOR DIVISION. TOO BAD TEAMS DO THAT!! DO RINGS MEAN THAT MUCH? |
| Oct. 23, 2008 turn2 489 posts | Crusader, There were only 2 there. It looked like about 3 or 4 were there. It would have been nice if us 3 major plus teams could have played with the 16 major teams. Well maybe next year. Will the 60 major winner have to move up to major plus or will they be able to stay in the major bracket like everyone else next year? Thanks, Donnie |
| Oct. 23, 2008 CRUSADERVB Men's 70 275 posts | I'M SURE THAT WILL HAPPEN!! NOT!! THE 60 MAJORS HAD 2-3 TEAMS THAT CAN PLAY MAJOR+. I HOPE YOUR SS IS FEELING BETTER, THAT WAS SOOO LOUD WHEN THE BALL HIT HIS HEAD IN OUR GAME. GOOD LUCK AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT YEAR |
| Oct. 23, 2008 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | We've had other messages about combining Majo/Major+ By having Ruth Realty drop down and play in Major with Major rules, it was clear the real Major teams can't quite compete at that level. This won't help get the 2 combined at all; in fact, it most likely will hurt any efforts to make them one division. In order for teams to get dropped down, they are supposed to not be able to compete at the level they are classified at. I find it hard to believe that Ruth wasn't competitive at the Major+ level. Who played against them in +, what were the scores? Any Major+ lose to Ruth? They ran the table in Major and made it look so easy. I'm sure with our economy the way it is, alot of teams wouldn't write the check for the Worlds as a Major team without a legit possibility of being competitive w/Major+ teams. Although they stubbed their toes, I'm sure AMR could also run the Major table on most weekends. Those 2 for sure were in a different class. |
| Oct. 23, 2008 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | curveball this is not the first time ruth has dropped down to win a ring.guess when u run the company u are allowed to do what ever pleases u.also when did the sacramento saints ever go up after winning the westerns in reno.mmmmm makes ya kinda wonder. |
| Oct. 23, 2008 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | Throw in a new ball each inning? Where has the pride gone? :( |
| Oct. 24, 2008 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | mad dog, thanks, that's why I asked several questions. Major, AAA, and AA deserve an even playing field. Just trying to figure out if the drop was justified. If they weren't competitive, they should have been dropped. But, where's the "not competitive" scores against Major+ teams? If anyone is competitive in a division and gets dropped down, that is a foul!!! Maybe the powers to be will get on and give input or justification for this move. |
| Oct. 24, 2008 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | yeah rob when ya own the company guess u can make the rules to fit for u |
| Oct. 24, 2008 DesertDave Men's 60 74 posts | We (Robson) will be moving to Major next year in 60+. The fact that teams get moved up for being successful in a division shouldn't bother anyone. It is necessary for competitive balance. It is natural to want to improve for anyone that competes. That is what competition is about. I haven't been playing Sr. ball long. Not like most on this board. When we play seeding games at most tournaments with mixed divisions, they allow 5 run or 11th fielder advantage to the lower division team. JMO, seems like 11th fielder would make most Major teams competitive with Major+. #31 |
| Oct. 26, 2008 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | Hey DesertDave, where do you plan on placing that 11th fielder? Past the LC field fence to retrieve home run balls...............Also, I doubt if the division gets combined, you'll be playing with anything but 10 players and you won't be getting 5 runs, it will be one division. There is no problem with being moved up after winning, that is to be expected, natural progression. But, there is a problem when you are competitive in a division and get moved down, and run the table in the Worlds. |
| Oct. 26, 2008 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | DesertDave, don't assume all of these guys are real competitors. You should be able to, but on here you cannot. Many just seem to want to hit balls to places they could not in their 20s using someone else's R & D and win the right to buy themselves rings with very little meaning. |
| Oct. 26, 2008 DesertDave Men's 60 74 posts | We can only hope to be that good some day. I was not referring to a single combined division. I was talking about 2 separate divisions, with some other teams for the M+ teams to play at the tournaments. As far as Hr's, how many do the M+ teams typically hit per game? I'm sure you underestimate their game. There is a lot more to it than HR's Curveball |
| Oct. 27, 2008 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | Woody, what is the answer to his question, "how many HR's would a typical 60 Major+ team hit"? Also, how many runs per game would you average? |
| Oct. 27, 2008 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | Desert Dave & Curveball: To answer your question in the best possible manner, I looked at our stats (GSF 60 M+) from Lincoln, NE... because it's the only national event that we won. Turn Two could provide the same type of input for their SPA and/or SSWC wins. It is my belief that the FL Raptors hit more HRS than either of us when they won the LVSSA (livelier ball)... but I cannot confirm how many they actually hit. We played 6 games in NE and went 5-1... we hit a total of 15 HRs with a pretty good ball (Dudley ZN Thunder, 44/400). We averaged 23 runs per game. I'm sure that this will catch many by surprise in that most folks have the opinion that M+ teams hit nothing but HRs. Donnie Chavis of Turn Two has tried to suggest otherwise but no one seems to listen to him. The truth is that we hardly hit any more HRs than the major division. Ask someone from Ruth Realty (60 M) how many they hit in Phoenix. At the same time, ask them how many M+ guys were on their roster when they actually played in AZ. This might be something worth knowing. BW |
| Oct. 27, 2008 turn2 489 posts | Bob, We (Turn Two) do not hit a lot of home runs. I would like to have guys that can base hit, run and play defense. If they can hit home runs and do the other things that is just extra. In SPA we played 6 games (5-1). We hit 10 home runs and averaged 21 runs / game. In Phoenix we were 4-2, hit 11 home runs and averaged 26 runs/ game. IN one game to start off sat I think GSF hit about 8 out against us in that first game and then in one of the A's game they also hit 8, but then the homeruns slowed down a little. I would bet that some of the major teams in Phoenix hit more home runs than all of us little old major plus teams. I will take defense first, then speed and then home run power. What good are home run hitters if the ball is poor, or hot weather or the win is blowing in? Later Donnie Chavis Turn Two Collectibles |
| Oct. 27, 2008 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | Donnie, I agree with your team philosophy... in further checking our stats, we hit 59 Hrs in 4 national tourneys combined (21 total games)... so that's slightly less than 3 per game. We scored 352 runs or 17 per game, which is probably on the low side for our division... not a good offensive season for us. In the SSWC Reno Qualifier (06/08), which was played at semi-high altitude, we hit roughly 5 per game and scored about 25 runs per game. I'm looking forward to seeing the game scores posted from AZ as this might help put to rest the M/M+ Differential Theory. BW (GSF 60) |
| Oct. 27, 2008 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | turn2 and wood,i like the defense first and speed than a hi avg hitter,and someone who has power that fits that bill,great.yrs back i took a bunch of kids to a military tourney that played real good defense and just basehit also had speed,we had 2 guys,myself and our 3b (who did play real good d)who could take it out.i will tell ya we the base level teams were real worried about us and barely beat us.the only teams that did finish(we ended 4th) was 3 base teams. now as a senior we(55 AAA) have played this one M+ 55 team a couple of times and have beat them without hitting anything out b/c they don't play defense.we just basehit them to death.like u said you can't always hit it out. |
| Oct. 27, 2008 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | turn2 and wood,i like the defense first and speed with a hi avg hitter,and someone who has power that fits that bill,well great.yrs back i took a bunch of kids to a military tourney that played real good defense and just basehit also had speed,we had 2 guys,myself and our 3b (who did play real good d)who could take it out.i will tell ya we the base level teams were real worried about us and barely beat us.the only teams that did finish ahead of us(we ended 4th) was 3 base teams. now as a senior we(55 AAA) have played this one M+ 55 team a couple of times and have beat them without hitting anything out b/c they don't play defense.we just basehit them to death.like u said you can't always hit it out. this most likely will end up being a double post,had to go back and redo some of it to make sense.wish the had an edit function on here. |
