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Online now: 2 members: Rambrose13, TABLE SETTER 11; 47 anonymousDiscussion: DOCTORED BATS
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| Dec. 23, 2003 linde 11 posts | DOCTORED BATS Does the body of Senior Softball care about this issue? Believe me you have played in games when they were used. This is a fact. This behavior has been going on for a long time and you all probably know someone that has used a loaded bat. There is a alarming increase in the use of these illegal bats in senior softball. what are your thoughts on this issue? What can be done? Does anyong care? |
| Dec. 29, 2003 Airbosn Men's 70 329 posts | I am not a big fan of doctoring, juicing, or enhancing bats. The way I see it, if your game depends on the juiced bat you are using then you have other problems to deal with first. However, if I remember correctly the bats of 20 - 30 years ago still allowed guys to hit homers and bat for high average. For one thing, everyone says the bats are being banned for safety, (still have not seen any definitive data from any association) but yet I remember many times guys getting hurt with the ball coming off of old bats at great speed 20 & 30 years ago. I don't remember anyone complaining back then, or any outcry to ban anything. It really depends on who is swinging the bat. There are plenty of players in the senior circuit that could put a hurt on ya just as easily with a wood bat as they could with a Miken. Should players be banned from playing? Is he the weapon, is it the bat, how about the ball? Just my humble opinion. |
| Dec. 31, 2003 linde 11 posts | The point I am making is that using altered bats is illigal. Cheating is Cheating. What kind of warped morals -are these people operating under. Cheating is Cheating anyway you cloak it. |
| Dec. 31, 2003 TexasTransplant Men's 70 516 posts | I've watched this post for several days now and have been surprised at the lack of response. IMO there is no place for doctored bats in the game and players found knowingly using a bat that has been altered to exceed the performance specs of the organization in which that player is playing should be suspended or banned. I beleive USSSA has instituted rules to this effect for the upcoming season. It really doesn't matter how the bats perform vs. 20-30 years ago. What matters is adhereing to the letter and the spirit of the rules. that would apply whether the subject was bats, player eligibility, or whatever. This is the essence of fari competition. |
| Jan. 3, 2004 biggflyy 4 posts | In this day and age it is all about gaining an edge. Juiced bats, steroids, sandbagging is just a few ways of achieving that edge. When you approach middle-age and are losing your physical attributes do what you have to do to stay competitive. In fact, with juiced bats and juiced players there could be more teams playing in major or super major instead of the lower divisions having the vast majority of the teams. Get with the new millineum and take advantage of what science and technology can offer. Besides, chicks dig the long ball!! |
| Jan. 3, 2004 linde 11 posts | biggflyy very interesting retort. I have one thing to say to you quote bugs bunny "ahh what a maroon"! Hope to see you on the field of play. Make sure you bring your long ball. th- th- th- th- Thats all folks! |
| Jan. 7, 2004 biggflyy 4 posts | linde-You will see me sending missiles through the mound using an illegal Ultra I painted to look like an Ultra II. As the road runner would say, "beep-beep" when that ball whistles by the pitchers head! Also, biggflyy may not be the sharpest tack in the box, but he ain't retorted like you think he is. See ya in the summer!! |
| Jan. 8, 2004 linde 11 posts | Hey bigfly if your such a Big man let us all know your real name you know mind. |
| Jan. 8, 2004 linde 11 posts | Hey bigfly if your such a Big man let us all know your real name you know mind. |
| Jan. 29, 2004 armyho211 Men's 60 52 posts | we all need to follow the rules laid out by the associations, this game we love to play must be kept as clean as possible. most of us are willing to give 100% in all games with the approved equipment, we cant win all the games,but i dont mind losing,knowing that we give it our best shot and lost. anybody caught using a doctored bat should be banned for life by all associations,period. it should be up to the team manager to make it clear to the players, that use of illegal bats will not tolerated. if the team doesnt control it , then if caught, the team should be banned for a year from any and all tournaments. if you cant help but cheat,find another sport,and remove yourself from this one. my .02c. |
| Jan. 29, 2004 STONEMAN Men's 50 535 posts | SENIOR SOFTBALL, is a home for grown men to cheat. This sport , like all sports was @ one time mean for relaxation, sportsmanship, & the making of new friends, good times, etc. Bats, Balls, Gloves, & even using players not old enough to play is done. LVSSA, has board members that bend the rules for their team & tournaments. I feel sorry for the persons who do not have the talent to play. Yes, I feel sorry for people who will cheat, bend the rules, etc. to win. SENIOR SOFTBALL was ment to be for what? I believe that each player may have a different answer. For me, a last chance of some 'glory,' better understanding of myself & others. The hope that I could enjoy life, make new friends, & die an old happy man. Not an old bitter & lonely person. Try & enjoy the time that we SENIORS have left. If, u can, try & have soom compassion, even those who choose to cheat. |
| Jan. 31, 2004 JRinPHX 28 posts | Just to add an opinion. I find it amazing that at our age there are still players who are insecure enough to need to cheat and win at a game that will earn them another t-shirt. We recently played in a local tournament against a team that had altered a bat. We discovered it at the very end of the tournament. Unfortunately, the local director didn't have any idea what to do with them and so did nothing. However, we know and will watch for them at a big tournament and make a point of having the bats inspected. As far as Bigflyy's comments about using illegal Ultras and hitting up the middle, which I assume was meant as a joke, it was a foolsih statement and sounds exactly like the type of player I find difficult to understand. If you need to cheat to win a senior softball game, you certainly have bigger issues to deal with. I don't mind guys using the best, legal equipment available, and I pitch all the time. But if you cheat, I hope you are banned from the game. We certainly don't need you ruining the game we love. |
| Feb. 7, 2004 KillAbrew Men's 60 55 posts | I do not care about doctored bats. I think that teams sandbagging is a bigger problem. That is cheating at it's worst. |
| Feb. 11, 2004 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | killabrew u sound like a bitter old man,just play if a team wants to sandbag to win something then its on them to believe they are good.now when they have to play up after winning then they will find out how good they really are. i say run what u brung. MAD DOG |
| Feb. 17, 2004 pilot 2 posts | Doctored bats huh? I wonder how long we have been playing softball against players and whole teams using doctored bats? I wonder if manufacturers have been issuing bats that were not what they were going to sell the general public, just to sell bats? I wonder how good the quality is when you order a $300 bat and it comes to you 2oz heavier than what you ordered. Alot of the older bats we used would not qualify by today's standards because the walls are too thin and endloaded. Yes, quite a few of us hit homeruns with the old bats but they weren't the money makers they are today. What do you suppose the bat manufacturers pay each association for the stamp of approval? The manufacturers are in the business the sell bats. Home runs are a part of the game. Bring a new bat on the field that people start hitting home runs with and everyone wants one? I wonder why. |
| Feb. 17, 2004 crusher Men's 75 524 posts | Hey, it is fun to hit a HR once in a while. The Miken II made it easier and was fun to use. Our league has banned it because SPA has it banned. If you really want to doctor up what your bat does to the ball....lift weights and add more strength....you may be very happy with the results. Keep your eye on the ball and swing through the ball. Have a good softball year. |
| Feb. 17, 2004 DMac Men's 60 207 posts | I just noticed a used, doctored Mizuno Fury up for auction on ebay. Twenty bids have already been registered and it is currently sitting at $203, $40 over the price of a brand new model. What I don't understand is why would someone pay that kind of money for a Fury. I love that model more than anyone and currently own two, but it is not a bat that is favored by long ball hitters. What does a singles/ doubles hitter need a juiced bat for? |
| Feb. 18, 2004 DMac Men's 60 207 posts | Final selling price: $212.50 plus shipping. I still haven't seen everything, but I am getting closer. |
| Feb. 19, 2004 Walk 192 posts | I have been playing softball a long time and mostly on the highest level one can play. I also can tell you that the Doctored bats are best done by the companies. As stated they have been doctoring bats for at least 20 years and no one really cared until now. Why is that? I could careless what you bring to hit with. If you need a doctored bat then bring it if not then don't. Lets just play the game and see who wins. Besides if the truth was known the doctored bat is not going to beat anyone. I would suggest what normally beats a team is the errors, stupid plays, the lack of team work, and the fact that sandbagging is going on. You want to use a doctored bat, oversize glove, or any other thing you can think of fine just play at the level you belong and everyone will be happy. Now someone will say cheating is cheating and that is not right. I would agree it is cheating but then I don't care. If cheating is cheating then when your pitcher gets by with an illegal pitch I expect you to tell the umpire your pitcher is cheating. When you buy a bat that is 34 1/2 inches long then I expect you to turn yourself in. If you tape your knob, or use a knob cuff you are cheating. If you using leather work gloves instead of batting gloves you are cheating. If you take off before the pitch is thrown and don't get caught you are cheating. My point is we all do some kind of cheating through out each game so just play where you belong and play the game. Walk |
| Feb. 19, 2004 linde 11 posts | oranges and apples |
| Feb. 19, 2004 Walk 192 posts | Yeah it seems like that is always the answer. Cheating as is beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Walk |
| Feb. 19, 2004 DMac Men's 60 207 posts | Walk: Without passing judgment on anyone, I find your attitude towards cheating to be extremely interesting. I recall you mentioning that you are a college professor. Tell me, are you this magnanimous about plagiarism? |
| Feb. 20, 2004 linde 11 posts | 1...IF YOU LEAVE A BASE TO SOON YOU ARE CALLED OUT. 2..IF YOU PITCH OFF THE RUBBER THE HITTER IS AWARDED A BALL. 3..IF YOU ARE CAUGHT WITH A DOCTORED BAT YOU WILL BE SUSPENDED FOR TWO YEARS. 4..HOW DO YOU LIKE THOSE APPLES. |
| Feb. 21, 2004 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Linde, you are inconsistant in your reasoning. I. If you are caught leaving base too early your out. 2. If you are caught pitching off the rubber (or box) the hitter is awarded a balll 3. If you are caught using a doctored bat you will be suspended for two years. I. If you aren't caught leaving base too early your not out. 2. If you aren't caught pitching off the rubber (or box) the hitter is not awarded a balll 3. If you aren't caught using a doctored bat you won't be suspended. THE FIRST THREE ARE APPLES AND THE SECOND THREE ARE ORANGES! All six are cases of cheating. |
| Feb. 21, 2004 Airbosn Men's 70 329 posts | Well Said Bruce. By the way, I have the video from Todd (SwingMechanics). Great information, now, if I can use the techniques to get out of this slump I will be happy. If not I may go into the shop and rubber mallet my CU 31 bat...No wait, that may be bat doctoring!!! |
| Feb. 21, 2004 Walk 192 posts | linde, Bruce said it perfectly and there is very little to add to that. I would suspect however you would turn yourself in if you did get by with any of that and was not caught. In your first post you asked for our thoughts and what I believe you wanted was our thoughts as long as they agreed with yours. Sorry, I just don't see it as that big of deal. Now as far as my rules on cheating for my students go I will only say this. No matter how I answer this question you are going to pass judgment that is why you asked it DMac so with that said I would invite you to enroll in one of my classes if you want the answer to your question. Walk PS For the record I use stock bats, I am too slow to lead off, I don't pitch, but I do tape the knob on my bats. You or anyone else can buy the bat I use anytime for the price I paid for it. You can cut it open, send it in or do whatever you wish and you will find it is stock. I never have worried about what the other guy is using and never will. All I can control is what I am doing and what I am using. |
| Feb. 21, 2004 linde 11 posts | Well said everyone at least we agrees cheating is cheating. i rather git caught throwing a illegal pitch than using a doctored bat. |
| Feb. 21, 2004 DMac Men's 60 207 posts | Wow, you guys are quick to jump on people. By saying that I am not passing judgment, you automatically assume that I am? In truth, the only person I ever pass judgment upon is myself. Actually, I am just a person with more than his share of curiosity. I am curious as to why a person would spend so much on a used bat. I am curious as to how much of an advantage does a juiced bat give a person over someone using a regulation bat. I am curious as to how you guys can equate using an illegal bat with other infractions. To my knowledge, no pitcher has ever been injured by a runner leaving the base to soon. I have seen pitchers hit by batted balls. As it stands now, a pitcher would have trouble suing a hitter for injuries sustained during the normal playing of a game. I am curious if the courts would take the same view if the batter was using an illegal bat. Finally, I am curious how some people cannot seem to see the difference between infractions of the rules and cheating. Throwing an illegal pitch is an infraction; slipping in a dead ball is cheating. Thank you for allowing me to express my opinions. Thank you Walk for inviting me to enroll in your class. As a curious person, I am sure I would find your course to be extremely interesting. |
| Feb. 22, 2004 STONEMAN Men's 50 535 posts | The game of softball ia a sport. In any sport, there ARE usually some of the following; 1) SPORTMANSHIP 2) FAIR PLAY 3) the INTENT to PLAY W/IN the RULES. When a team or a player does not play by the rules, these people r CHEATING. When a mgr does not tell the truth about home runs, they r CHEATING. When one alters a bat for distance, one is CHEATING; uses a glove over 14", one is CHEATING; knowing throws a dead, broken, or 'hot' ball one is CHEATING. When a pitcher knowing does the following, that pitcher is cheating or trying to take an unfair advantage of players or an UMP: 1) Qick pitch 2) throw a ball over 12' & in some games 10' 3) Pitches from off of the pitching area 4) pitch when the batter has his hand up & has called for time 5) pitches a ball when the Ump is not in position. FAIR PLAY, BEING A GOOD SPORT, & PLAYING W/IN theRULES. What ever happened to this part of SOFTBALL? Cheating or trying to get an edge over others is still not playing by the rules or the intent of the GAME. As SENIORS, we SENIORS should play by the rules & the intent of SOFTBALL. HAVE FUN. I do not want to win or have the need to win by cheating or knowing 'bending' the rules of any sport. ALSO, @ TIMES I am not a good sport. I do not like cheats or liars. These are my problems & I just need to let it go & have fun. |
| Feb. 22, 2004 crusher Men's 75 524 posts | Hey, STONEMAN, I agree. I like to win and win by doing what we as Seniors can do by going out and playing the game. This game we have is so much fun to play in a league or a national tourament. Meeting players from all over the country is a plus. Lets keep the spirit of Senior Softball and not let it fall to where we can not trust each other. Have a good season. |
| Feb. 23, 2004 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Well put Stoneman! |
