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Online now: 5 members: CDNSmitty, Spear19, TABLE SETTER 11, cecil, mello24; 160 anonymousDiscussion: What happen to the Mike Kelly Post?
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| Jan. 3, 2005 Walk 192 posts | What happen to the Mike Kelly Post? Did the fact that someone is trying to do something about the injustice that is being perpetrated by the associations towards CA, Fl and senior softball players in general cause the thread to be deleted? As I look at the rules I do not find where the thread broke any of the rules. All he said was that he was going to take legal action to force the associations to make the rules equal for one and all. All he did was call for those who believe that this is unfair to stand up and be counted. The thread should not have been deleted it was nothing more than MK using the the message board "as a means for senior softball players and prosepctive players to communicate with each other" on a very important issue. All of us have tried to "offer ideas and constructive suggestions for improving our organization and sport" but no one seems to listen to the players. It is obvious that very few Major Plus players like what is going on so it should be obvious to those in charge that this new rule needs to be made equal. But instead of facing the truth and doing the right thing they have decided not to listen to the players and just keep on keeping on. Anyone interested in what Mike Kelly is doing please call him at his place of business. |
| Jan. 3, 2005 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | What the heck is going on? Censorship of ideas and opinions relating to what is fair and true? You must be joking. Mike is saying what most of us think is true and has the balls to try and do something about it and that‚s wrong? I‚m speechless∑ What is a forum for but to speak and communicate and suggest opinions and actions that are thought to be in the common good? I‚m shocked∑ Any organization that inhibits the free flow of honest communication is quite frankly un-American at least. We are in America still and there's no place for the censorship of important ideas that relate to the common good. I suggest whomever removed Mike‚s comments publish why they did and what in fact they think about the point of restricting California from equal representation in national tournaments. We're waiting. |
| Jan. 3, 2005 old dawgs 3 posts | I think I know why Mike and his Kellysports team are challenging the status quo, and I am behind him 100%. Competition (fair of course) is why we all keep playing in our Golden years. We all want to play with the best, against the best, and be competitive wherever and whenever we play. Representing a recently promoted Major team that only asks to be competitive and have an absolute blast doing it, I want a balance that says I have the same options available to me and the competition from all over the nation. |
| Jan. 3, 2005 alohabruce Men's 50 31 posts | What did happen to the MK39 post? I fully concur with what Walk and einstein have posted. Aren't we allowed to voice our opinions concerning Senior Softball on this site? By the way where's Mike? I haven't seen any posts from him in awhile. |
| Jan. 4, 2005 sjuhoops 145 posts | hello bruce i spoke with mike yesterday for about an hour and we here in vegas are totally behind him. hank |
| Jan. 4, 2005 jah#4 Men's 70 576 posts | Like Walk and The others I thought a message board was that a message board where a player would offer a suggestion or a idea and get a response from other players. I know Mike is sometimes outspoken like myself we sometime type now and think later. But I don't think his thread should have been pulled. I am assumeing the thread was pulled after legal advise, because of the word lawsuit was typed. I do think the rule need to be looked at for the Major + teams in Fla and Ca. But censorship of ideas and opinions on subjects that might make softball stronger is frankly unamerican as Einstein said in his post. |
| Jan. 4, 2005 NorCal1B 11 posts | I had the chance to read Mike's post before it went away, and must say its removal doesn't come as a big surprise. Not being on a Major/Major+ team, and not really having a stake in whatever outcome Mike hopes to gain, I don't have an opinion on his issue. But his message included info. on how to reach him to become, in effect, a co-plaintiff in his threatened lawsuit. If it were our company's web site, recruiting co-plaintiffs to sue US, and using OUR OWN web site to do so, would be something we would remove at the first chance. Just my thoughts. |
| Jan. 4, 2005 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | I also read his post. If someone entered Mike's sporting goods store and started to talk to the customers about a lawsuit with him I'm sure that Mike would "politely" ask him to leave. Haha! This isn't the place for his post. There are plenty of other message boards where he could air his differences with SSUSA. |
| Jan. 4, 2005 Walk 192 posts | Bruce, I understand taking out the pending legal action part but this is the board of one of the association that have decided to back the closing of the borders of CA and FL which was the true message of the board. Those who agree with the message should be allowed to respond to the post. I admin a large softball message board that has almost 2000 members and if that had been posted on our board I would have edited the legal part only. I would have never banned the man for that. The bottom line is this Mike is taking a stand against this unfair rule and softball players should be able to discuss it. This association is backing the rule so they have taken their stand and now it is time for the players to take theirs. If we don't then next year they will divide the state of CA again because of what is going to happen and we will have less and less teams in the Major Plus divisions. Since the regional rules have come about the Major plus divison has gotten smaller and smaller. When I first started to play you could count on 20 teams at the worlds in the major plus now you are lucky to see 8. These rules have not worked but to allow the borders of two states to be closed to make a TD happy is even worst. |
| Jan. 4, 2005 NorCal1B 11 posts | Thanks, Bruce, for a well stated poibnt. The matter of player eligibility is certainly one that I am confident the SSUSA would welcome to be discussed in this forum. Mike simply stepped 'over the line' (at best) in trying to recruit co-plaintiffs here at the same time he was making his point. Hopefully, the future posts on this topic will focus solely on the Softball related issue instead of potential pre-litigation strategy. |
| Jan. 4, 2005 sparksleader 10 posts | I would like to come up with some type of conclusion to this problem of bordering states. There is truly a wide variety of comments that are being made, I don't read any comments that make sense to me. I always believed that if someone has a problem with rule and regulations, that you should be allowed to discuss or negotiate a fair ans equitable solution. I would suggest that if you have a complaint about a ruling, that you not only file the complant with the association, (anyone can complain, we seem to be doing that well enough) but, you should also suggest a solution. Litigation in this day and age is all too easy. Co-operation and offering a solution could be beneficial to all involved. Please believe me when I say that I do not always agree with these two organizations, but, antagonizing the organization gets everyone nowhere, just hard feelings. I would suggest that possibly the Major plus teams who were supposedly at 20 teams and are now 8 teams should consider an organization change. I do not mean leave the SSWC and SPA, I will suggest that the Major plus division be handled as a seperate entity. Those players would become an organization within the organization. The Major plus division could have their own set of guidelines, bordering states as an example may not be necessary. If there are so few teams, (I do not know that for sure) it seems to me that controlling the roster of every team and rating each major plus play would be less difficult. Just some thoughts |
| Jan. 4, 2005 Walk 192 posts | sparksleader you have a great idea and I am sure every major plus player would be for that as long as major plus players were allowed to make the rules. I doubt it will ever happen but I like the idea. It would mean a lose of some control and that is not allowed. As far as filing a complaint with a solution I have done this every year that the new regional rules have been in affect. We at one time had an exempt player status that allowed players with no teams in their regions to play out of region which was a good rule. But because RB got beat last year in a world tournament by GT team who had a legal exempt player we are now stuck with a very unfair rule. To me it is only being enacted to satisfy the lust for gold of one or two people but that is jmho and in the end no one really cares who is screws. Let me say this the statement has been made by the three people involved in this rule (which I thought had to go before the summit before it could become a rule. Thus the reason for the summit which now proves to have no power) that if the Major Plus players don't like it they don't have to play. There are not that many of them anyway. Now if there are not that many of us to worry about then why are we changing the rules for the Major Plus Players yearly? If we are such pain in the asses then why force us to be worst by enforcing really stupid rules that seem to be decided on in backroom discussions? I am with you let the Major Plus division become its own thing and let the players along with the association heads come up with some fair and just rules. |
| Jan. 4, 2005 sparksleader 10 posts | Walk, I would believe that Terry would be open to conversation regarding the idea of having the Major Plus teams handled as one entity. It is only to his benefit to have proper controls in place. We all must remember, that we do not have a financial interest in this organization. Would you be interested in talking to both organizations about such a transition. the worst that could happen is that they refuse the idea. At least you will have all the information required to decide the next step. Please remember, (20 teams down to 8 Teams) not much power, if you were AAA or AA, maybe a different story. Remember, Honey draws more than vinegar. Try a different approach |
| Jan. 4, 2005 Walk 192 posts | I would be more than happy to sit down and talk to someone about this. I have tried to do so for 5 years now. I would rather work it out to where it is fair for one and all than have it as it is now. I agree that 20 teams to 8 does not have the same pull as AA or AAA and that is why it baffles me that Major Plus is under these same rules. To me it is simple let each team have one or two players from outside their region and then just play softball. Now that is not hard. In 2003 a major plus team won a world championship without playing one team in its age bracket because there weren't any. That would signal to me that the regional rules don't work at this level without some kind of exemptions for players. We are losing teams and instead of saying let do something to open it up they are doing something to kill it. Hanks 60+ team in Vegas will not put a team on the field because of this rule. Another team in So Cal has disbanned because of this rule. Two Fl. Teams are done according to my source. There are no teams in the midwest because they can only draw from states that do not have seniors. The last I heard the one and only 50+ Major Plus team in Texas is moving up to 55 which means they will field no teams in the 50. If this keeps going the way it is going then Major Plus will be dead within a few years. So yes I would be willing and I have offered to help before but never heard a word. Walk |
| Jan. 4, 2005 Lecak Men's 60 1026 posts | I'm fairly new to the west coast and I believe would have qualified for some late season senior tournaments this year and full time in 06. I don't know where on the food chain I would have fit but the Seniors doesn't seem to be where I want to be. I'll stay with the youndg guys, take my chances physically and do the best I can. Good Luck. |
| Jan. 4, 2005 Walk 192 posts | I understand. You can play where ever you want and with whomever you want. |
| Jan. 6, 2005 Walk 192 posts | bump |
| Jan. 6, 2005 william wallace 42 posts | I find this thread to be amazing. William Wallace 55 |
| Jan. 6, 2005 T-REX 64 posts | Mk39 is a friend and competitor of mine,if his thread was removed,then some of the comments made on another message board were corrrect,it is censorship.I don't always agree with Mike,but,he is intitled to his opinion,who's next?If we all agreed then what would be the use of expressing your opinion,we'd all be the same....play ball |
| Jan. 7, 2005 crusher Men's 75 524 posts | T-REX, you mentioned another softball board in the above post. What are some other boards. I do not know of many. I know of playnsa. Thanks. |
| Jan. 7, 2005 sjuhoops 145 posts | hey walk. sorry ive been busy. as for our former 60 major plus team from nevada. we have 4 players left, we have 4 from arizona and we had 4-6 from so. cal. we had seeked permission to try to put this together as the three states combined only had 12-14 major plus players in the 60 age bracket. we were not including northern california as we know the bandits and gary tyrhorn draw from about a hundred mile radius. both ridge and terry allowed us to put this together back in october. we played in two tourneys one a 55 and another against the bandits. we were competitive in both. now we are into december and most teams have committments from players for next year. three td's have a phone conversation on a friday at 10am, i call ridge at 1pm as he had asked me to do. hank sorry no good for your team and tells me about the new rule isolating cal and fla. today jan 7th we now have a total of 11 players 9 60's and two 55's. we will not be able to play 60 major plus this year not 60 major so we are forced to play 55's. i dont think that is fair however i like others am a softball nut. a point of interest to some people who feel cal and florida might get raided. last year our 50major plus team in nevada actually went to two worlds with 9 players and played in a third with a 60 year old player being the 10th. our 55 group played at the aaa level. california actually took two of our players to play with them. our 60 major plus team had one player from so. cal. inmo if the;y would change the region for nevada and so cal to be combined then we would be able to field a team. if our team only winds up with 11 players we will not make it through the season. our first tourney next weekend 3 guys cant make it so we picked up two of our cal gu;ys and a 64 year old to go play 55's. i cant see why the td's cant see they are hurting the adjoining states to cal and fla as well as being unfair to them also. sorry to be so long but i still dont get it if the best want to play the best why cant it happen. they bring up dan smith's team of the past. california wasnt raided as most of the guys on the team were from the east coast with only a few cal guys. we had great battles those years won some and lost some. hope this helps walk hank |
| Jan. 7, 2005 sjuhoops 145 posts | hey walk. sorry ive been busy. as for our former 60 major plus team from nevada. we have 4 players left, we have 4 from arizona and we had 4-6 from so. cal. we had seeked permission to try to put this together as the three states combined only had 12-14 major plus players in the 60 age bracket. we were not including northern california as we know the bandits and gary tyrhorn draw from about a hundred mile radius. both ridge and terry allowed us to put this together back in october. we played in two tourneys one a 55 and another against the bandits. we were competitive in both. now we are into december and most teams have committments from players for next year. three td's have a phone conversation on a friday at 10am, i call ridge at 1pm as he had asked me to do. hank sorry no good for your team and tells me about the new rule isolating cal and fla. today jan 7th we now have a total of 11 players 9 60's and two 55's. we will not be able to play 60 major plus this year not 60 major so we are forced to play 55's. i dont think that is fair however i like others am a softball nut. a point of interest to some people who feel cal and florida might get raided. last year our 50major plus team in nevada actually went to two worlds with 9 players and played in a third with a 60 year old player being the 10th. our 55 group played at the aaa level. california actually took two of our players to play with them. our 60 major plus team had one player from so. cal. inmo if the;y would change the region for nevada and so cal to be combined then we would be able to field a team. if our team only winds up with 11 players we will not make it through the season. our first tourney next weekend 3 guys cant make it so we picked up two of our cal gu;ys and a 64 year old to go play 55's. i cant see why the td's cant see they are hurting the adjoining states to cal and fla as well as being unfair to them also. sorry to be so long but i still dont get it if the best want to play the best why cant it happen. they bring up dan smith's team of the past. california wasnt raided as most of the guys on the team were from the east coast with only a few cal guys. we had great battles those years won some and lost some. hope this helps walk hank |
| Jan. 7, 2005 sjuhoops 145 posts | hey walk. sorry ive been busy. as for our former 60 major plus team from nevada. we have 4 players left, we have 4 from arizona and we had 4-6 from so. cal. we had seeked permission to try to put this together as the three states combined only had 12-14 major plus players in the 60 age bracket. we were not including northern california as we know the bandits and gary tyrhorn draw from about a hundred mile radius. both ridge and terry allowed us to put this together back in october. we played in two tourneys one a 55 and another against the bandits. we were competitive in both. now we are into december and most teams have committments from players for next year. three td's have a phone conversation on a friday at 10am, i call ridge at 1pm as he had asked me to do. hank sorry no good for your team and tells me about the new rule isolating cal and fla. today jan 7th we now have a total of 11 players 9 60's and two 55's. we will not be able to play 60 major plus this year not 60 major so we are forced to play 55's. i dont think that is fair however i like others am a softball nut. a point of interest to some people who feel cal and florida might get raided. last year our 50major plus team in nevada actually went to two worlds with 9 players and played in a third with a 60 year old player being the 10th. our 55 group played at the aaa level. california actually took two of our players to play with them. our 60 major plus team had one player from so. cal. inmo if the;y would change the region for nevada and so cal to be combined then we would be able to field a team. if our team only winds up with 11 players we will not make it through the season. our first tourney next weekend 3 guys cant make it so we picked up two of our cal gu;ys and a 64 year old to go play 55's. i cant see why the td's cant see they are hurting the adjoining states to cal and fla as well as being unfair to them also. sorry to be so long but i still dont get it if the best want to play the best why cant it happen. they bring up dan smith's team of the past. california wasnt raided as most of the guys on the team were from the east coast with only a few cal guys. we had great battles those years won some and lost some. hope this helps walk hank |
| Jan. 7, 2005 sjuhoops 145 posts | hey walk. sorry ive been busy. as for our former 60 major plus team from nevada. we have 4 players left, we have 4 from arizona and we had 4-6 from so. cal. we had seeked permission to try to put this together as the three states combined only had 12-14 major plus players in the 60 age bracket. we were not including northern california as we know the bandits and gary tyrhorn draw from about a hundred mile radius. both ridge and terry allowed us to put this together back in october. we played in two tourneys one a 55 and another against the bandits. we were competitive in both. now we are into december and most teams have committments from players for next year. three td's have a phone conversation on a friday at 10am, i call ridge at 1pm as he had asked me to do. hank sorry no good for your team and tells me about the new rule isolating cal and fla. today jan 7th we now have a total of 11 players 9 60's and two 55's. we will not be able to play 60 major plus this year not 60 major so we are forced to play 55's. i dont think that is fair however i like others am a softball nut. a point of interest to some people who feel cal and florida might get raided. last year our 50major plus team in nevada actually went to two worlds with 9 players and played in a third with a 60 year old player being the 10th. our 55 group played at the aaa level. california actually took two of our players to play with them. our 60 major plus team had one player from so. cal. inmo if the;y would change the region for nevada and so cal to be combined then we would be able to field a team. if our team only winds up with 11 players we will not make it through the season. our first tourney next weekend 3 guys cant make it so we picked up two of our cal gu;ys and a 64 year old to go play 55's. i cant see why the td's cant see they are hurting the adjoining states to cal and fla as well as being unfair to them also. sorry to be so long but i still dont get it if the best want to play the best why cant it happen. they bring up dan smith's team of the past. california wasnt raided as most of the guys on the team were from the east coast with only a few cal guys. we had great battles those years won some and lost some. hope this helps walk hank |
| Jan. 7, 2005 NorCal1B 11 posts | T-REX - You appear to be another of the growing list of people that simply miss (or ignore) the point of why "The Message" was removed. It was removed because it contained (in the view of SSUSA) libelous statements AND it was using THIS message board to recruit co-plaintiffs to join in the threatened litigation against the owner of THIS web site. Removing the message was a no-brainer, and had nothing to do with censorship. The "Softball Issue" content of his message also went away when it was removed ... It appears to me that the folks who monitor this Board remove improper messages entirely rather than edit out the offensive content ... I'd like that approach if I were the offending party, since I'd prefer that others not decide what I think is important in my post. In any event, the purely "Softball related" content of the removed message has been well stated by others here (and has NOT been deleted), and regardless of an individual's position on the merits, there has been NO censorship. The topic is getting the full airing it deserves. Just my thoughts to set the record straight |
| Jan. 7, 2005 william wallace 42 posts | Hank, I forone find that storyamazing. Alba gu bra William Wallace 55 |
