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Discussion: Cal State Championships

Posted Discussion
Aug. 17, 2009
Men's 50
3114 posts
Cal State Championships
I had a great time at the new complex
in Woodland this week.
The fields were in pristine condition
(new synthetic stuff like Field of Dreams)
and the umpiring was good.
Fran AND Dave were there which
is always good for the players
as their graciousness and decision making
accountability helps ground, secure
and operate any tournament.
I even saw Terry carrying water
and chopping wood, too
and he's never looked better.

The main comment from senior major plus players was the ball, again
that wasn't very good as the weather got warm.
I don't know which ball cores from apple cores but I remember what I hear
and feel trying to hit a softball hard
which is what I always try to do.
Many of the senior major plus players
are recognizing what I've been saying
for a while now and that is
the caliber/quality of the balls
has been diminishing for a while.
I won't discuss why and how that is taking place now as you all have heard it before but suffice to say
it's becoming common knowledge
and remember to all concerned
going forward
we want/need/deserve GOOD balls in order to have a good time.
Speaking of better to good balls
I heard LVSSA is using Trump's microcell
X Rock ball like they did last year.
If it's the same ball as last year
that ball hits better than any 375 x 44
ball on the planet.
It hit 100 degrees every day I was in LV
last year and the balls left the yard
with little to no visible drop off.
The covers are a little loose which I liked as a pitcher but feel and field
a little differently which could be gotten used to.
I pretty sure I would trade a lively ball like this
for minor adjustments that have to be made by us to keep the joy in our game
going forward.
I was one and one this weekend.
My Old A's got past very good GSF and MTC teams but my 5 Spot played terrific softball but came up short against a very game and competitive East Bay Oldies team.
As I study pitchers all the time
I learned a lot from the gamesmanship
and outright toughness of both Brownie
and Jeff, the excellent pitchers
for East Bay and 5 Spot.
All in all,
a very good tournament.
It was great seeing Woody
and his GSF boys.
Corky, Ron, Chuck,
Danny Mac and the rest.
Manteca next week at the Field of Dreams
for the NCSSA Championships.

Aug. 17, 2009
Men's 60
61 posts
Just wanted to say that the Cal Cup major fields were run very well. Nice facility and the grounds crew did a good job of keeping the fields moist. It was a very competitive tournament and we had a good time this weekend. Congrats to Chubb on their victory.

On another note, one of our guys lost his camera in the dugout on Saturday. Somebody put it in a bat bag, and as it turned out, it wasnít anyone on our teamís bag. If somebody finds it in his bag, please contact Andy Smith, mgr. of the Double Nickels. Thanks.

Ken Lange
Double Nickels #40
Aug. 17, 2009
Men's 70
107 posts
It was a great tournament, even if we did finish 2nd to the Mustang's!!! We had fun and the fields were both very good. Great job by Dave, Fran and the gang.
I just wish Dave had more time to enter the results1!! LOL
Aug. 18, 2009
Men's 50
3114 posts
I heard the microcell ball that's being used in LVSSA is more expensive
than standard 375 x 44 balls.
If the 375 x 44 balls are not up to par
and as many have said and noted
they're not,
then we should go to a better ball,
a higher core, higher compression ball
to ensure we can have a good time.
We're not going to be intimidated
or BS'd by anyone,
I guarantee it.
There's going to be no compromising with seniors next year about the ball
we use.
All the TD's and ball manufacturers
better take heed.
It's gonna be a ball we will be guaranteed ahead of time is
acceptingly alive
or read my lips
we won't go, attend or support
those who won't/can't do it.
We're not 40 year old guys
and won't be punished like we we're criminals or morons.
We're not going to be punished
for the crimes and foolishness
of the few.
Get it?
Our game, character and class are different and we will be treated as such
or you, whoever you are, can
"tell your story walking" as my dad
used to say.
Get it?
You better.
Or we'll find and expose you
whoever you are and aren't.
Get it?
You better.
Aug. 18, 2009
Men's 60
61 posts
Einstein, what was wrong with the ball used in the Cal Cup?
Aug. 18, 2009
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Ken,
The ball reacted to the temperature
like a butterfly does to the wind.
Hotter it got the worse the balls were.
The comment I heard from many of my friends
was relative to the balls we used last year
and the year before.
We're down from 47 x 525 balls
thru 44 x 525 balls
thru 44 x 400 balls
to 44 x 375 maximum balls.
They say we're just older and can't hit as far.
Poppy cock.
Say that to Sal, to Clatter, to Bogie,
to Joe Tang, Rock, Roger, et al.
These balls have been brought down by marketeers
trying to protect themselves in the market place
at our expense from other marketeers
who might make balls higher than spec
and scoop unfair market share.
Follow the money, remember?
Again, all this comes in the face and at the expense
of giving us the good balls we want and need
which is our chief complaint and will be
going forward to all concerned.
Our interest simply is to play with/hit
good balls with good bats.
That's the game we want to play
and we WILL or we won't participate,
attend or buy anything from those
who don't support us.
They say safety is the issue.
They said the same thing at NorCal.
Gary Tryhorn exposed the fallacy.
That's a ruse, a cover for securing market share
and eliminating competition.
Like I said
we've had enough and if we don't get the equipment we want and need and deserve
everyone's going to know about it
who's operating
or moving against us and our best interests.

If you want to discuss it more with me
email me at
and we can talk more off line.

Aug. 19, 2009
Men's 65
274 posts
Aug. 19, 2009
140 posts
Hey Crusader heard lvssa is putting you on the baseball field in mesquite. lol
Aug. 19, 2009
Men's 60
873 posts
I have a question for Terry and Staff.
last year I asked why the Cal Cup doesnt rotate from So Cal to Nor Cal. Terry told me he was looking in to shifting the Cup. What has happened to that idea?
This year we, the Mustangs 55AAA were the only team from So cal to play as a 55AAA team. At this rate the Cup may never leave Nor Cal again.
Congrats to Wilson Trophy for their defense of the Cup, they played well.
I also have an issue with our name, we are told we have to change our Mustang name when we move to 60AAA next year, we have had this name for well over 10 years, the Nor Cal Mustangs have only had their name for 4 years, where is the justice or rationale, of this idea?
Aug. 19, 2009
Men's 60
61 posts
E4, who told you that you had to change your name?
Aug. 19, 2009
Just -a-base Hitter
Men's 50
12 posts
I like the balls this weekend.The balls were flying out of the ball park and it did not matter where the fences were.I think that the 50's should be playing on baseball fields.
Aug. 20, 2009
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Ron,
We're going to need some reassurances
and guarantees next year
before we move 10 minutes from our homes
about the major elements involved
with us having a good time.
Enough is enough.
SSUSA has intimated to me
next year's going to be VERY different.
They're good people.
They've heard us loud and clear
and we'll see.
We can connect the corridor between
Northern and Southern California
and do our own tournaments if we need to.
Joe T.
You are a monster with a bat
and new to senior ball.
We're talking about a phenomenon
that has been taking place in and around us for the last couple of years.
You were hitting bombs on the big field
because you're a monster with a bat,
the wind shifted on the field
and you played some at NIGHT
after the temp had dropped which elevates the compression of any ball.
The ball was OK but most of noted
not in elevated heat and in genearl
as good we had experienced
in the last couple of years.
Perception at some point
is reality and a lot of us
are perceiving/seeing soft-ball
stuff very similarly, these days.
You are hitting the ball, Joe,
as good and better than at any time
in our experience together.
Way to go, Bro.
I told you, you'd love senior ball
and senior ball would love you.

Aug. 20, 2009
the wood
Men's 65
1123 posts
I'm not sure of what changes are in store for the M+ division next year. From my perspective, it will take an 'about face' on the part of SSUSA as it relates to M+. It isn't just the rules that is bothersome, it's the application as well.
Without boring you and everyone else on SSUSA's M+ history, suffice to say that the next good M+ event will be its first. The closest to a big event was in Phoenix at the end of the 2007 season when they had 7 teams in the 55 M+ bracket. However, someone must have noticed that during the first weekend, there were too many HRs (and then singles)and games were lasting too long (for SSUSA's needs). For the second weekend the time limit no longer included the 'finish this one + plus one more' as we were merely allowed to finish that inning. The result was a collection of 4 inning games... their web site suggested that we'd use the 'this one + one'.
In addition to the 'who chases the ball' consideration, there is the basic fact that M+ games take longer than SSUSA has been able to stomach.
LVSSA, SSWS and SPA seem to deal with it but not SSUSA. To me, this is more than just a passing issue.
some might say that because we had 8 60 M+ teams in Reno this year that this would qualify for a 'big event'. IMO, this is only partly true because the format used was one that allowed SSUSA to fit us in with their master field grid. Without getting further into philosophical differences on this element, let's say that they did the best they could given the shortage of available game slots. 'Big events' tend to be double elimination.
Game slots - if you think this through, one might reach the conclusion that quantity is more important than quality.
So, Joe, there would need to be a 180 degree turn on their basic premise of M+ before we should anticipate any REAL changes.
They do a really good job with the other divisions (AA-M) and this generates a lot of revenue for them. Why would they, all of a sudden, give a rat's ass about the 'weaker link' ($)?
Aug. 20, 2009
Men's 55
94 posts
Joe . The 44/375 is fine at about 78 degrees and below . The problem is, that is a temperature we rarely play at . In the heat the ball needs to be a 525 compression ball or one of the microcell balls . If it was a 525 ball , the compression would stii be around 375 even at 100 degrees . It is a simple fix . But ,TD`s don`t seem to be willing to go to the trouble . It would fix the problem . JB
Aug. 20, 2009
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Woody and John.
I'm with you all the way, Woody
and as I said, Dave and Fran intimated to me
that things would be VERY different next year.
I think they got and followed some bad advice.
We need to stay with them on the changes
that need to be made and receive assurances
and guarantees that these changes will in fact be made well ahead of time.
If not, we're not going to support
any association or marketeers who don't/won't
align themselves with our principal
wants and needs.
Thanks, John for the info.
That's definitely a possibility for next year.
We're going to be using the microcell ball
in Las Vegas later this year and we'll see
what the guys think of it.
The main thing is to let SSUSA know what we think,
feel, want and need so they'll be no chance
we'll be missed or misunderstood.
Aug. 21, 2009
the wood
Men's 65
1123 posts
Joe, I always try to keep an open mind but, at the same time, I hate to continue repeating past mistakes. You already know the math, both financial and otherwise, on SSUSA's less-than-sterling record with M+.
SSUSA would need the same level of change as Dr. Richard Raskind did in order to join the womens's pro tennis tour (30 years ago or so)... you know the story, he became known thereafter as Renee Richards... so I guess that anything is possible.
It wasn't that long ago that SSUSA 'commissioned' the Major Plus Task Force in order to determine what it was that M+ teams REALLY wanted. After learning this, they decided that an anonymous group (aka Rules Committee)would be better suited to coincide with SSUSA's desires. Has SSUSA truly made a paradigm switch? If so, this must have occurred after the event in Woodland. Because there, once again, we were treated like the 'cocaine babies' of senior softball.
So please forgive my skepticism but I need to heal the stump scars on my stomach.
Aug. 21, 2009
Men's 65
4549 posts
One thing you can't control it the weather. We know that if its going to be hot or not in most places we go. If hot weather is expected, EXPECT poor performance with the balls after a bit. Both teams will be playing with it, so what is big deal. Overall, most any ball would otherwise "perform" well in warm weather, say up to 80-85 degrees as an example. Nothing unfair there. Go, live with it, enjoy playing, or stay home, & regret it. Most balls that have been used played well in up to even 90 degree weather. But many cities get hotter than that, still your all using the same balls.
Perhaps you could talk the assn's into YOU (team or self) providing ALL the balls and live with the kudos, complaints, missing balls, expense and so fourth. Might be interesting or dull depending on where, when, & weather.
Now there was a thought, a sex change, A few bat differences but not many. They even play in some shorter fields.
Talk about a reality check.
Screw the balls, just play and enjoy it..
Aug. 21, 2009
489 posts
If the balls are bad why can't we buy them from the TD and hit as many as we want? This way if I hit one out or foul it off I have to go get it or buy some more balls.
We spend a lot of money going to the worlds and what is a few more dollars to purchase balls and hit them all weekend. This way I will get more than 1 new ball per game to hit. This is not hard to do, just ask Ridge how he likes this idea.
Turn Two
Aug. 21, 2009
Men's 65
4549 posts
Your "supposed to" start with a new one, doesn't always happen however. TD will have the same balls and I don't have a problem with your suggestion.
Unless left out in the heat, they may last longer with rotation in and out of the game.
Heat is 1 reason for balls going flat, Either way, both will be using same balls. Its not like some are using 52\275's or what ever and the others are using a 52\525 or so. Just like crooked lines and short\deep fences, both teams are stuck with it.

Aug. 21, 2009
Men's 60
873 posts
Pushin 60:

Fran told our manager that because we are moving to 60's and the Nor Cal Mustangs are already 60's it doesnt matter how long we have had the name, we are then the new kids on the block.
Lets see, 10 years or 4 years. Kind of follows some other decisions made by ownership. A very poor one if it holds up.
Aug. 21, 2009
Men's 65
4549 posts
I think I'd go with longevity, but why not both of you change...nor cal and so cal mustangs... at least it kind of democratic..
Aug. 21, 2009
Men's 50
3114 posts
E4/E6 and Scotty,
I think the biggest concern for SSUSA would be
how to distinguish between one another
in computurese.
You can use diacritical marks like ~ or`or *
for the other one allowing both of you to have the name that is meaningful to you.
There's got to be a way to make both parties happy
without either of you giving up
the essence and meaning of your team's name.
I'm sure there is.
Aug. 21, 2009
Men's 65
4549 posts
Kinda like knowing who someone is would be great or even a team, or location, but far too many are paranoid it seems or really prefer the ambiguousness of nothing said or listed. got no problem with it but it's pretty bad looking for those who post wanting to hook up and leave squat for info. Maybe morse code is the answer for them.
-.. .- .... = DAH
Aug. 31, 2009
Men's 60
61 posts
Iím bumping this back up to the top to see if I can stimulate the conscience of the guy who has my teammateís camera. We had the 3:30 game on field #2 on Saturday, and somebody on our team put the camera in the wrong bag in our dugout (first base side). As it turns out, it was PROBABLY the bag of someone from the 2:00 game. SSUSA wonít give out the phone info for the manager of the team that had that dugout, but if he is reading it here, we ask that he contact Andy Smith, mgr. of the Double Nickel 55ís. This camera isnít tiny like a lot of the digital ones on the market. It is a large one, and resembles an older style SLR and is not something you could miss in your bat bag. Therefore, we ask all the guys from that team to check their bags to see if they might mistakenly have something that doesnít belong to them. Thanks for your help.
Aug. 31, 2009
Men's 65
4549 posts
Not good imo, for withholding the mgr's info. But perhaps you can get him to call the guy for you, about it... If the team is also a NCSSA team you can find that in their web site. Those numbers & email addy, are available for the most part.
You might try the assn's down your way as well.
Old style camera or not I'd think he would have noticed it some time during the day or weekend.
Hope you\he gets it back.
What was team name?
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