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Online now: 3 members: TABLE SETTER 11, roster, softball4b; 76 anonymousDiscussion: Should a bat be confiscated
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| May 30, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Should a bat be confiscated While at the USSSA Conference tournament in Marietta this weekend I got to thinking, why doesn't a senior associantion confiscate a bat when a pitcher is hit with a batted ball? Many are yelling safety but no one has mentioned this. I'm guessing that when a bat is taken it is held by the tournament director and then it is inspected, probably close scrutiny is given the endcap and the balance point is checked to see if it has been end loaded. I'm sure bat companies would give balance points and similar specs. I would think that most would stay away fromt he middle if they thought their bat would be in the posession of the TD for the rest of the tournament, this is if the bat is legal. If the hitter had altered the bat they may worry about being banned for years. Why hasn't this been mentioned before?? |
| May 30, 2010 SLOBALL1 Men's 50 174 posts | Every time a pitcher gets hit with a batted ball. 1.the bat should be confiscated and checked to see if it's altered? So Bruce is your Conclusion:the only way a pitcher can get hit with a batted ball is if the bat is illegal? |
| May 30, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Sloball, how did you get that out of my post. I stated "I would think that most would stay away fromt he middle if they thought their bat would be in the posession of the TD for the rest of the tournament,....." Where did I indicate that only altered bats would be used to hit the middle. It would be a huge deturant to confiscate any bat that was used when a pitcher was hit. |
| May 30, 2010 tattooball 774 posts | They take the bats for compression test's. The corralation between bpf and compression is 1.20 bpf is about 220 comp. At 1.21 bpf the comp would be about 205, none of the senior bats would past a compression test after 20 minutes of bp. All senior bats go way below 180 comp at a very early point of the ba being hit. The conclusion is you would be at a tourny with no bats to swing. |
| May 30, 2010 SLOBALL1 Men's 50 174 posts | Bruce please note question marks (?). Generally those (??)mean that one is sking for clarification. |
| May 30, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | to me in senior ball bats should be checked for balance at each tourney and sticker as passing the test.spa does it for their nationals/worlds.doing a comp test would be fruitless as trumpball says,since they go under in less than a 20 minutes of bp. this is the reason that ssusa should demand that bat mfg's make bats that will not go under 200 max.that would prolly give us about a 1.23-1.25(as a guestimate)for a comp of 200.way more than we need but should keep the whiners happy about hitting a ball(any 40 or 44 c.o.r. ball)that can kill us. ssusa you need to look into this before someone does get killed,can you stand up to the heat if that does happen. |
| May 30, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Kevin, there were two bats taken at the conference and then returned later. They didn't have a compression tester, only examined (?) the bats. I would like to see senior softball have a rule that stated when the pitcher was hit the bat would be confiscated and inspected and then returned when the player's team left the tournament. I'm not saying check the compression, just confiscate it, check the balance point and give it a close look and keep it for the remainder of the tournament. Bat companies should like this rule, maybe some will have to buy additional bats!! ha, ha. For safety's sake some are saying use a 52/275 ball, some like the ppr, some are saying tone down the bats, others are saying use a screen. I say confiscate a bat. This is to deter hitters from hitting the middle. |
| May 30, 2010 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Rule book page 21; Rule 3.4(6) Bat inspection. Your damned if you do or do not here. |
| May 30, 2010 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Bruce, that's a good idea. Kevin didn't answer the question. A bat can be checked to see if has been altered in any way by balance point and opening it up to see if the walls have been altered or shaved. Some of these tests could be administered on site by informed umps or TD's and some would require more professional investigation. We need to move directly against cheater and cheating without changing the game for everyone else. This is fundamentally faulty and unnecessary and will back fire badly is foisted on the senior softball community. Perhaps Kevin's bat chip idea could help us solve the problem of moving against cheaters and cheating more directly. |
| May 31, 2010 diehard Men's 55 246 posts | I rarely, if ever, hit the middle. And I know that guys do hit the middle. And I am as concerned about the safety of the pitcher as anyone that plays the game. My question would be, what does the bat have to do with hitting the ball up the middle, other than that is the tool the batter uses to hit with? And why would you confiscate the bat? Would it just be a deterrant? Hit the middle, lose your bat! Some would be penalized for mishitting a ball that goes back up the middle. I don't know about this one. I would rather see a pitcher wear protective gear, much like other sports, such as goalies in Lacrosse and Hockey, who have shots coming at them at high rates of speed. |
| May 31, 2010 stick8 1991 posts | Bruce I can tell you in the house leagues where I ump at if a pitcher gets drilled with a line drive the bat is automatically taken and inspected. That's not a national rule, just a house rule and it's specifically stated in the park rules. We check certain markings to see if the end cap may have been tampered with, certain stress marks that might indicate rolling, any cracks, dents or paint chipping. If we feel strongly that abat may have been shaved or altered somehow we send it to the national office (USSSA) for them to examine and/or cut open. It definitely serves notice to the other players that we're serious about getting rid of cheater bats--Lord knows how the word spreads in the softball community. I believe sometime in June or July we should have a bat compression machine on site to measure the compression. I'm not certain how Senior Softball handles this but this is something they may wish to look at if they're serious about combating cheater bats. But then who in their right mind would want to shave an Ultra II? |
| May 31, 2010 tattooball 774 posts | Stick don't hold your breathon the portable bat tester. It is not working correctly and is probably a year away. |
| May 31, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Diehard, the bat has nothing to do with hitting the middle. That's my point. Even if a hitter uses a Bombat and hits the pitcher the bat will be taken for the tournament. In this way it would be a deterrant. If you did mishit the ball you would lose your bat for the tournament. This wouldn't be a dead ball out, just after the play the bat would be collected. I agree with you about protective gear but many are now trying to change the game by changing bats or adding a pitching screen. Stick, if they deemed a bat illegal because of paint chips there would be plenty of mad or disappointed players. I agree with everything else you mentioned. I've heard that there are some that have shaved a sr bat. |
| May 31, 2010 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Bruce. I like you're idea more and more. Also, the league could give a team the right to challenge 1 or 2 or 3 bats a game/tournament and those bats would be held out for the entire tournament. The players can usually tell or suspicion when an "extra hot" bat is being used. The guys would get the bat back at the end of the tournament. |
| May 31, 2010 diehard Men's 55 246 posts | Well Bruce, we all know something must be done. So, if your idea works, then hopefully injuries to pitchers will decrease and maybe by confiscating the bats we will catch a few of those who feel the need to cheat. But if I were a pitcher, I would opt to use equipment to protect myself anyway. |
| May 31, 2010 titanhd Men's 60 638 posts | I busted my game bat last weekend at Lansing and had to switch to a bat with less than 10 games swings on it.Not a Miken bat and a dud compared to the bat I busted.I miss hit two balls with this bat that went at the Pitcher. Both balls were caught by the Pitcher.Had they not been and either ball hit the pitcher-per your sugesstions Bruce the bat would be confiscated? To paraphrase"the bat has nothing to do with hitting the middle. That's my point. Even if a hitter uses a Bombat and hits the pitcher the bat will be taken for the tournament. In this way it would be a deterrant. If you did mishit the ball you would lose your bat for the tournament" If the bat has nothing to do with it why are you taking it? No one is allowed to mishit? Whatever answer you come back with and I'm a pretty easy going person but... NOT MY BAT! |
| May 31, 2010 curty Men's 60 187 posts | this could be a good idea. As a deterrant to intentionally hitting middle. Mishit balls are rarely as "hot" as a well hit shot and give the pitcher a little more wiggle room for protection. Knowing you may lose a bat for the remainder of even a game would surely stop some from goung there. I have talked to many hitters that go box intentionally that say it is the easiest place to get a hit, and these guys would be affected by this rule. These same guys usually carry multiple bats to cover breakage any way. |
| May 31, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Titanhd, the association would need to discuss this in detail, deciding different aspects of the proposed rule. Maybe the bat would be taken if the ball went through the pitchers box, maybe if it actually hit the pitcher. I don't have the answer for this. I do know some that hit through the pithcer's box and this rule might stop that, legal or illegal bat. |
| May 31, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | how can you tell if a senior bat is extra hot ???? if you really want to keep the pitcher or infielders alive or from serious injury we need to do something about the ball.we can confiscate all the bats you want,that will not stop the serious injury or killing of anyone. the use of the 52-275 ball will stop that. |
| May 31, 2010 stick8 1991 posts | Trumpball I have heard rumors to that effect. What's the problem with the bat testers? |
| May 31, 2010 stick8 1991 posts | Bruce if it's just paint chips on a bat it usually means it can't be used. Similar to a cracked or dented bat. It's likely the player won't be penalized. |
| May 31, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | I'm sorry Bob, but you can't convince me that if a pitcher took a shot to face with a 52/275 there wouldn't be a serious injury. I just had a long discussion with SM and I still say we are talking about two different subjects. We can slow down the speed with the 52/275 but there will still be times when a pitcher will be hit. I know the damage won't be as severe with the 52 cor ball vs the 44 but there will still be injury. We need something else to make hitters stay away from the pitcher. With less hitters going yard with the 52 ball they will no doubt start hitting up the middle, just my opinion. |
| May 31, 2010 stick8 1991 posts | Bruce, you can't "make" hitters stay away from hitting it at the pitcher. It's part of the game. If you wish to deter hitter from hitting the middle bring in a 5th infielder. |
| May 31, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | bruce the severity index by the 52-275 ball is down around 480 psi,the other balls(40/44 c.o.r.) are all way above 1000 psi(some are at 2000 psi),it only takes something above 800 to do the real bad damage/kill someone. you will get bruising and such with the 52-275 ball maybe a broken nose,but your not gonna get the crushed bones that you get with the other balls. it would take a freak set of circumstances for the 52-275 ball to kill someone,not so with the other balls. |
| May 31, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Bob, don't take this the wrong way but you don't know what kind of injury would result if a pitcher were to get hit by a line drive from a M+ or even a M player. Like I've said before, I sure the injury would be less that with a 44/375. As for a broken nose, that would be headline news on Softballfans if a pitcher were to get a broken nose, not matter what ball was used!!! I'm sure that pitcher's teammates would try to make him feel better with words like "if that had been a 44/375 your injury would have been much worse". After a few pitchers have that broken nose, what's next, the Worth Extra soft Poly-X SOF DOT??? Changing the ball isn't the answer. I believe there would be less hitting the middle if you knew there would be a chance of losing you bat for a game or weekend. Stick8, I agree. I have proposed that to our team play a five man many times but usually was told that I should play outfield in that case, not first base! ;) |
| May 31, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | bruce really have you seen the studies done on the 40,44 c.o.r. balls.if you have,you would in no way make that statement about the 44-375 ball.the lower the core the less the bounce,hence the harder the ball is. as far as the teammates consoling the hit player,at least with the 52-275 ball they are able to,with the 40/44's they are not able to.they are wishing him a speedy recovery from major surgery if he is not dead. |
| May 31, 2010 crusher Men's 75 524 posts | I have read 100,000 post's on the pitcher. The only process I see that will protect the pitcher is have an additional fielder beside or just behind 2nd base and a remote push button that activates a pitching machine... I played in a tournament in Irving Tx this past weekend and saw a 65 plus player hit a ball out of the park and the 50 yr old players hit many out. Hey we have a mat now, why not a pitching machine? |
| May 31, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Bob, what statement are you refering. This one: I(I'm) sure the injury would be less that(than) with a 44/375.? (I need to proof read better) I agree with you that the 52/275 will cause less injury. What I'm saying that many hitters will stay away from the middle if they believe their bat will be confiscated. Will the 52/275 deter hitter from the middle? I don't think so. |
| May 31, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Maybe Taits will do another poll. For instance, In your opinion, what is the best way to insure the safety of the pitcher? A) tone down the bats B) tone down the ball to the 52/275 C) confiscate a bat when a ball is hit through the pitcher's box D) use pitcher's screen E) use a remotely controled pitching machine F) insist on a middle fielder, with a total of 10 fielders G) insist on a middle fielder, with a total of 11 fielders H) use the current SSUSA pitcher protection rule I) recommend the pitcher wear face mask and/or other protective equipment J) make mandatory the pitcher's use of protective equipment Did I miss any solutions? |
| May 31, 2010 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Yes, Bruce, H)Change arc, size of rubber and home plate, number of balls/strikes allowed to give pitchers more to bother/keep batters off balance. |
| June 1, 2010 tattooball 774 posts | Bruce a player here in Ny was struck directly on the eyebrow with a line drive with a .52 ball. The result was amazing even for me, no broken bones, no concussion, 4 stitches to close the wound. He wanted to finish the game, the ump would not let him. He did play the next friday night with the 4 stitches. In Otego Ny the same week and outfielder got hit in the eye with a knuckleball and broke his orbital bone along with his cheek bone. 2 plates later hes out for the season. Both of these are on record. |
| June 1, 2010 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | So pitchers are the only fielders who matter? |
| June 1, 2010 Paco13 424 posts | This has to be one dimmest thing that I have heard in many years. How is the pitcher being protected by confiscating a bat? Who will be responsible for labeling and protecting those bats? Is the price for tourneys is going to go up, because the guardian of the confiscated bats has to be paid…OK he will not get hit by that bat, but what about the next hitter or my next bat. Guys if you scare say that you scare and find something else to do. Stop trying to change the game. Simple wear protective equipment, or not, and take a chance of drinking through a straw for few months/weeks. The solution is to get rid of the senior bats...well we all know that is not going to happen. Take your skirt off and play ball or just stay home and play with your dolls. Love you all. Get a life and play ball. Salem VA here we come. Bruce will be nice to meet you, but come on man...bat confiscation…Amazing. |
| June 1, 2010 Paco13 424 posts | This has to be one dumbest thing that I have heard in many years. How is the pitcher being protected by confiscating a bat? Who will be responsible for labeling and protecting those bats? Is the price for tourneys is going to go up, because the guardian of the confiscated bats has to be paid…OK he will not get hit by that bat, but what about the next hitter or my next bat. Guys if you scare say that you scare and find something else to do. Stop trying to change the game. Simple wear protective equipment, or not, and take a chance of drinking through a straw for few months/weeks. The solution is to get rid of the senior bats...well we all know that is not going to happen. Take your skirt off and play ball or just stay home and play with your dolls. Love you all. Get a life and play ball. Salem VA here we come. Bruce will be nice to meet you, but come on man...bat confiscation…Amazing. |
| June 1, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Paco, I don't want senior softball to get to any of the above 10 or so choices. I agree with you in that the game shouldn't be changed. If it is changed I think confiscating a bat should be right after protective gear. See you in Salem. |
| June 1, 2010 diehard Men's 55 246 posts | Pitchers are not the only ones that matter, but they are somewhat closer to the line of fire, after delivering a pitch to the batter, The other fielders are in position, back further than the pitcher and have a few more seconds to react. You should already know this since you are a pitcher. But pitchers do seem to be the main people recieving the injuries. Unless there is other evidence that would dispute that, then I guess peotecting the pitcher from serious injury is the main concern. And I believe protective equipment should be mandated, before we allow the use of screens or pitching machines, or even the confiscation of bats. |
| June 1, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Kevin, last Monday in our open league, a pitcher was hit in the cheek with a Trump Rock. He went down like a ton of bricks. The results was a slight cut. He should be playing the lottery, very lucky!! |
| June 1, 2010 diehard Men's 55 246 posts | We don't get paid to play this game! We pay alot of money to play. I was seriously injured, long before Senior ball, long before Senior bats. It can happen to anyone at anytime! Those who think otherwise are foolish. The cost to me and my family was tremendous. But, I was lucky, I only had my mouth wired shut for a month, after many hours of surgery. I was lucky because I lived to play another day. Others have not been so lucky. These sugestions by Bruce and all of the others that have come on here, are because of the concerns they have for their fellow Senior softball players, and the injuries that seem to be happening more and more. Wearing equipment doesn't make you less of a man, it just helps you live to play another day. |
| June 1, 2010 tattooball 774 posts | He should play some for me too. He must of had movement away from the ball or some kind of deflection. Diehard, sorry to hear about your misfortune, but a brken jaw is not nearly as bad as many of the impacts that are occuring today. I to have been hurt. Broken fingers etc, but the head trauma that is occuring today is not survivable. |
| June 1, 2010 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | There's many ways to make the game reasonably safer without killing it by destroying the joy of hitting a good ball with a good bat which as I have said a zillion times is intrinsic to the positive experience of playing the game we love to play. Safer or funner doesn't and won't work, not now or ever. Yet, there's a clamor and fear to run as fast and far as we can in a "safe" direction so no one ever, ever again will be hurt on a softball field. C'mon, man. The game's gotta be meaningfully risky to be fun. That's what separates it from checkers and lawn bowling. We need to be ready to make a stand. Some have told me that seniors won't make or take a stand on anything in senior ball no matter what. I know they're wrong. We do it, all the time in NorCal. |
| June 1, 2010 J R 251 posts | This is very good to think of safety. But most tournament directors have trouble keeping the proper teams in the proper skill level.Who gets runs spotted to them. Think about most of the tournament directors you know. Do you want them openning bats. Keeping end caps on hand.Players jumpinng up and down saying my bat has less pop,and it broke in just a few swings. Sounds like some confusion. Just put up a screen problem solved. |
| June 1, 2010 Player25 Men's 55 50 posts | First let me state that I am all for safety, but having any rule/penalty after an event has occurred does nothing for safety. It appears many of the suggestions on this board are driven by the need to keep the outrageous bat/ball combination currently in use in senior softball. It was amazing to me to experience the size of the ego's of many of the senior players. I understood the ego mania in my younger years. I for one am grateful to still be able to play softball. Maybe I am in the minority but I play for a lot of reasons besides just hitting homeruns. The friendships, the competition, the locations of tourneys are just a few reasons. They are much more important than hitting balls 400' or more. I for one would like to go back to a more balanced game where things like defense, speed, ability, intelligence, etc. actually mean something. Our team plays major + but it was formed originally to play major. We had success at major and now play major +. There are several problems with the current system. Having success at major gets you moved to major +. In our case we do not have players available in our area that can hit a homerun on demand. We may average 3-5 homeruns a game when most major + teams we play against hit close to 10 per game. This alone puts our team at a disadvantage. I would propose major to be the highest level for automatic "move" ups. The teams that want to play major + would elect to play in that category. They could have any rules that they want. The other brackets would play under similar rules as today.(home run limits, runs per inning, etc.) The brackets beside major +, would reduce the liviness of the bat/ball combo so as to bring back a more balanced game. The major + teams would be able to recruit from all over the US. The other brackets would be limited by the current boundaries. This would give all players the ability to chose where they play and the bat/ball combo they want. There would not be a need to make further changes to the game. Let's go back to the balanced game of yester-year and park our ego's at the gate. |
| June 1, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | player25,a very sound post,but you'll prolly get flamed tho, by the ones who want to see all your private info. i have to agree with the ego point.there is way to many in senior ball now.some of these players don't care about their fellow softballer,would rather hit their hot bat/ball combo than save lives. |
| June 1, 2010 E4/E6 Men's 70 873 posts | Bruce your idea has a lot of merit and may work. However most players would only go back to their bag and grab another bat. Maybe if they have all of their bats confiscated? |
| June 1, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | E4/E6 confiscating bats will not help the pitcher any,he'll still get drilled and hurt badly if not killed.we need to be proactive for the safety of our senior players and get the 52-275 classic+ ball into play. |
| June 1, 2010 Proudtex40 57 posts | If hitting the pitcher is such a concern why don't each team furnish their own pitcher which should be a deterent in hitting the middle. Then take the picture of the opposing team and let them play anywhere they want to (such as in front of 2nd base). Might be a dumb idea, but just wanted to throw that out. Good luck to all. |
| June 1, 2010 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | Proudtex40, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING....or did you get into the adult beverages early today ! |
| June 1, 2010 Stretch14 Men's 50 202 posts | Put a screen out there. Let the batter toss the ball in the air and let him it. Everybody in the infield get's hit at hard. Not just the pitcher. |
| June 1, 2010 Stretch14 Men's 50 202 posts | Put a screen out there. Let the batter toss the ball in the air and let him it. Everybody in the infield get's hit at hard. Not just the pitcher. |
| June 1, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | well stretch you would not need the screen as we could have the pitcher stand back at 2b for fielding purposes,hell lets put it on a tee,than the batter wouldn't have to worry about having to throw it up,LOL. |
| June 1, 2010 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Screens and 70 foot bases solves any necessary concerns for pitcher/player safety. Lively bats and balls forever. The game/association will not survive without them. We, the players, will chose and have already spoken/chosen for those who want to or are able to listen and see. |
| June 1, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | well as usual,nothing but SOS from you joey,usssa uses the ball(52-275) and they are not going away,asa is looking into it real hard for 2012.if you would go read the link i posted in the 52-275 ball thread you started,you would see.oh and they(the kids) seem to like the ball. so please quit posting bs on something that you won't research and get some facts about it ,another-wards don't pee down my back and tell me its raining,as that is what your trying to do. |
| June 2, 2010 Proudtex40 57 posts | #6 & Stretch14, My comment was directed at those that whine about pitcher safety. As a pitcher I've had the biggest and baddest swingers hit the ball back up the middle, been hit a couple of times, hit the pitcher a couple of times, but never did I complain about changing the rules of the game just because good bats and balls are used. Steve Shannon (proudtex40@aol.com) |
| June 2, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | steve you have been real lucky,i pitch when i play with the kids,senior ball i'm usually in the field some place else(ss,2b,a little OF).also its not just the pitcher who is in danger the inf'ers are also at risk,by the bullets that can be hit at them.i have no prol pitching to the kids without the use of senior bats(well most of them).yeah we see the painted and shaved bats,but if i know that they are really using one i walk them,just throw 4 pitches that are completely unhitable.if they ask why i tell them use a clean bat and they'll get to play also. to me its not whining if one life is saved,your the one who knew the guy who passed b/c of a hit to the head,i would think maybe you would be a little more sympathetic. yeah as a hitter i like bombing away with our hot bat/ball combo,but i am willing to put my ego aside for a safer game. |
| June 2, 2010 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Steve, Great comment. When did the game we been playing since we were babies, where players have gotten hurt and even killed with the numbers too many to mention become too dangerous and here's the kicker, why? Who's pushing all this safety stuff. It could have been done, 5, 10, 15, 30 50 years ago. I've gotten fingers and forearms broken. I been knocked out a couple of times, once from a collision once from a thrown ball. So? Right on, Steve. This drive to safety seems situational and out of context to me and tons of others. Robert? Steve's another player/man you'd be better off not standing too close to when you argue and disagree. You couldn't carry his jock. |
| June 2, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | joey as usual you answer nothing.we started playing this game with wood bats and cork center balls,or have you forgotten.maybe you didn't play back then as it wasn't fun for you b/c you didn't have a hot bat/ball combo to use.i never heard of anyone dieing from a hit ball,back then.this has only started in the modern age of softball(composite bats and such). as far as carrying jocks,well i don't do that maybe you do,but not me,not into it.and i have no problem putting my ability up against anyone even you.hitting a softball 400' does not make a complete player. just answer why you think a life given(someone dieing) is good for softball. |
| June 2, 2010 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | mad dog, Several players back then were killed with the T-4000, just thought I would throw that in to the mix. |
| June 2, 2010 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | It's better to live life to it's fullest and not be afraid of dying or getting hurt while trying, Robert. Everything we do in this society is dangerous to death from breathing the air, crossing a street and driving a car. Even Nancy agrees that danger in the game is essential to the experience. And if the game needs to be dialed back screens would be the best way without screwing the rest of us who like to play with lively bats and balls. You disagree with Clatta and Steve Shannon, Robert. And you're trying to impress and convince us? C'mon, man. Get a reality check. And being so ardent about safety first, like a girl scout or school nurse makes sense for someone so out of touch with how the game is played and what it takes. |
| June 2, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | #6 i never heard of anyone being killed by a batted ball before the mid 90's.the only one in the mid 90's that i did hear of,was a ball that took a bad hop off the pitching rubber and hit the pitcher in the chest and stopped his heart.and it was a blue dot and DW bat.i happen to know the guy who hit it and it really changed him for a few yrs. joey answer my questions,before you go on another tirade.you are very good at evading questions put to you. do you want to be the person to go tell someone's loved ones that you just killed their father,grandfather,husband,etc. well if don c says you need to hit a ball dead center,yes i have to disagree with him,and i'll bet you he doesn't go for dead center on the ball. steve and i are having a discussion,as where you can't or don't want to. |
| June 2, 2010 E4/E6 Men's 70 873 posts | Dying doesnt hurt, its the pain in between thats a bitch. Somewhere there is a solution to our dilema. It maybe seperated divisions for Senior Bats and 44/375 balls at the same tourneys. But I fear Joe is right. We may only need one or two fields for the concerned among us and for me thats a shame. I cant see anything changing our bats, they are far too ingrained in our game. The ball however seems to change quite often for whatever reason. In my opinion thats what will lead us again. Joe I've seen some awfully tough Girl Scouts, ever try to get past one selling cookies at the supermarket? =) |
| June 2, 2010 E4/E6 Men's 70 873 posts | If I'm not wrong and you all know I rarily am. JK. Clatta is talking about hitting the ball hard, not necessarily out of the park. Circumstances would determine shot selection. Center if you dont necessarily need the long ball, back underside if you want to drive it out. |
| June 2, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | E4/E6,if clatta is only talking about that then yes,but it will knuckle 99% of the time.but with the way he hits,he is most likely going to try and go out with it,so he needs the back spin.if your looking to keep it in the park for sure you want topspin.but as any person with some knowledge of physics knows that a ball hit dead center is not what want for the long ball. |
| June 2, 2010 Proudtex40 57 posts | Mad Dog, I've had more balls hit back at me while playing with the youngsters and I guess its because they simply don't have any bat control. I get a kick out the youngsters when they make the comment that they hope they can hit the ball as hard as I do and play as good of defense as I play "when they get my age." Years ago that would have pissed me off, but at 57 I suppose it should be taken as a compliment. I would be better off playing 3rd base when I play with the youngsters though, but I let them do all the running. One big advantage of getting older (not old though) is we get smarter. As for Clatta, I've played with and against him for many years and I've seen him almost take a few heads off of pitchers, but he quickly apologized and felt like crap for hitting close to the pitcher. And he is without a doubt one of the best hitters in the history of the game, but sometimes the ball doesn't always go in the exact direction we want it to go. I have a couple of war wounds to prove that as I'm sure you do. Good luck with this season. |
| June 2, 2010 Stretch14 Men's 50 202 posts | My comment was directed at the people who whine about pitcher safety 2!!!!!! |
| June 2, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | steve i'm with ya on all your comments in your last post.the kids are something else when they see us old guys play.i pitch most for them most of the time when i play,a little 2b,1b and c.yeah i get the same comments,and i'm 60. i have seen and played against clatta,i played for mission in 06, also played against him at the huntsman games.conway from GSF no longer lets me walk up to his games if clatta is hitting and he is pitching,as it seems he undresses connie when i do.yes it is accidental. i feel that i have no prol on the mound when i pitch as you prolly don't,but feel that all it takes is one shot,also i feel 80% of the pitchers in senior ball don't have the reflexs to do it,but are the only ones on their teams that can pitch in reality so they have to.thank you for reading or listening. strech why is it whining to try and save a life.just hope it is not someone dear to you that loses their life,b/c of ego's on the softball field. |
| June 2, 2010 E4/E6 Men's 70 873 posts | Bob we know Clatta, Shannon and Bogie to name but a few are in a league of their own, any of them can hit a ball most anywhere and it will go out. What Clatta seems to be saying is to hit it center for the best overall results. The rest of us better hit the back underside if we hope to put it out with any regularity. |
| June 2, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | E4/E6 yes they are in their own world as far as hitters,but hitting a ball dead center gets you knuckle ball that doesn't travel as far as a ball with back/under spin.i'm just trying to get that thru to the one who seems to think that is the way to hit the ball 400' so he can have fun.i do think clatta really doesn't mean to hit it exactly in the center.demarini says to upper cut a little for the base hitter and go for the ball just above center to get the top spin.for hr hitter he says go for just under center line of the ball. |
| June 2, 2010 Stretch14 Men's 50 202 posts | Mad dog, this is what I think. I play first base and I've had some shots at me and that's the way the game is played. You have to be ready at any given time. I hope nobody get's hurt playing senior softball but you can't help it. |
| June 3, 2010 Proudtex40 57 posts | Mad Dog, what is reflex? I think I lost that back 10 years ago. :-) Actually I find myself concentrating more when I'm pitching because I know I don't have the same reflex I used to. And to make things worse, it takes a lot longer to heal than it used to. I get hit on the toe last year (by a youngster of course) and didn't look at it until the game was over. My shoe was filled with blood and the nail was barely hanging on. It was then that I realized that it hurt like hell. The good news though is the nail is finally growing back. But I'll keep pitching to the youngsters until they don't want the old man around. |
| June 3, 2010 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | mad dog, The players were killed when the T-4000 was being used. I guess that was the 80's ? One was coaching 3B and was hit in the head, the other I know about was a second baseman, the ball hit him right in the chest and he died before he hit the ground. |
| June 3, 2010 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | #6, I was msnsging a sporting goods store and playing for Chromalloy/Shallow Waterbeds in 82-83 and I called ASA about the T-4000 killing someone, and yes 2 people died, but neither was with the hot balls available at the time according to ASA. Any ball can kill you if it hits in the right spot. The chest cavity was correct for one of the deaths. I have also seen people smashed with a ball that deflects off the rubber and have lobbied the associations for years to totally do away with the rubber in our game. It is not needed for anything. It's like an appendix. |
| June 3, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | #6 never heard of them dieing in the 80's,90's yes, and i've been playing since the late 60's. stretch i get to play some with the kids over at first and your right,i just would like to see someone not killed,and our senior combo is that just waiting to happen. webbie when i pitch i'm always trying to cover that piece of useless rubber up,than the ump comes along and wipes it clean. steve you said reflexes,most of the time they just happen to hit my glove and i act like i knew what i was doing.LOL most of the time its bad hops,lighting,backgrounds and such that help in getting us hurt,we can complain till the cows come home but usually nothing is done,the 52-275 ball will help prevent the serious injuries. the video is still fluff,compared to demarini's and a guy named bob murphy.bob's vid was done back in the 80's and still is very good one to watch. |
| June 3, 2010 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Webbie that''s a great point about the rubber. Having moved recently from 3rd base to pitcher the pitching rubber is a definite hazard no good infielder would ever put up with. It's time to get rid of it. Absolutely. |
| June 3, 2010 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | Webbie, I don't know if it was ASA or not, but I do know it was a T-4000 that killed the two players I am talking about. I am certain of that ! mad dog, Maybe that was in your druggie years and you can't remember. lol. |
| June 3, 2010 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | LOL #6-- I tried pot once in the late 70's and knew right away I could never afford it. I immediately went down and spent 45 dollars at McDonalds-6 Big macs-7 Quarter pounders, tons of fries 4 hot fudge sundaes, etc. With munchies like that I would go broke and get very fat in a hurry!! |
| June 3, 2010 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | I rodeo for years..........we were always told the reason the hippies don't have any drugs, is the cowboys had it all. I think there was something there.lol |
| June 3, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | yeah #6 i thought you were a little out there,LOL.by the way that cowboy movie is not about you is it BBM.LOL.you guys coming up to dallas next weekend,hoped to see ya's there. |
| June 3, 2010 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | mad dod, See you there, but they don't allow red bloomers on their fields !LOL |
| June 4, 2010 doker Men's 60 185 posts | Hey maddog...Kenny's right no bloomers!!!!..shud have been with us in RENO...AWESOME COMPLEX>>>>...i agree with an earlier comment ..lets move bases back to 70'...we played in vegas last year on a field with 70' bases and the game really slowed down...not as many runs and infield play...something novel!!!!...doker |
| June 4, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | #6,doker yeah wish i could of but that's another story in itself. if we go to 70' bases than kenny won't be able to throw a ball to first base,LOL.i kinda like the 70' bases,but we are seniors......... i played on them with the kids a few weekends back and it is rough on the legs,oh but the fence was only 280',woo-woo. well since you guys insist,i'll have to wear the red shorts again.LOL. |
| June 7, 2010 Joncon 328 posts | "" why doesn't a senior association confiscate a bat when a pitcher is hit with a batted ball?"" Simple really. The hottest bats available are LEGAL in senior ball. Shaving an Ultra would be silly. So would shaving another bat to perform like an Ultra. |
| June 8, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Joncon, it's really not that simple. I've received several emails on this subject and it seems that there are many that are using altered senior bats in our games. This includes shaving and endloading. |
| June 8, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | This thread wasn't about altered bats, it was to discuss ways to keep batters from hitting at or near the pitcher with the hottest legal bats. Most of us can control where we hit the ball. My suggestion would keep those hitters from hitting at or close to the pitcher. |
| June 8, 2010 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Seniors have to know that altering a bat, shaving or endloading it, is wrong and unacceptable. We just need a method\or methods in place to enforce these rules and just like seeing a cop on a highway it puts everyone back in line. Else, you get the thinking that "all the other guys are doing it, so it must be OK or we'll be taken advantage of in a meaningful tournament." We live in a competitive society that ultra rewards guys being first and that tends to make one a sucker for not "taking advantage". I agree that Bruce's idea about confiscating bats would be "a way" to begin to resolve this dilemma and if uniformly adopted could stop any inertia towards taking advantage, in a big way. |
| June 8, 2010 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | We had one for you in Reno this weekend. One of our guys hit a shot to third base and the third baseman for R&R, I think it was, never reacted and I think it hit him in the chest. You are talking a very quality thirdbaseman, from what I saw. Sure made our hearts jump some, but he was alright. Confiscating his bat would have taken a very hot (because he was hitting everything) and legal bat out of our lineup. Isn't there a way to check that right there? Maybe a chip in the bat or something? |
| June 8, 2010 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Kevin came up with a chip idea that has been "batted around" and may still have some merit. I haven't heard it mentioned much given all this talk of changing the ball, instead. I think dumbing down the ball is seen as a panacea except that is screws us, the players, out of enjoying our game. I'm no ball expert but it seems someone could come up with a ball that is both lively and safer in today's high tech and inventive world so we don't have to settle for an either/or situation like we see, today. |
| June 8, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Webbie25, I haven't and don't advocate confiscating a bat when any player is hit, except for the pitcher. SSUSA's rule does say that the bat and ball will be confiscated when a player requires emergency medical care. |
| June 8, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | bruce we play with the hottest bats out there,why would anyone want to shave them,maybe endloading them,but TD's can check balance. also if you do know of any you should let ssusa,spa know about them so we can weed them out of our game. personally i can't see why we should confiscate bats as it will do nothing,i think most of us carry a couple of bats in case we break one,confiscating would do nothing but inconvenience someone for a bit,of only if it is clean. |
| June 8, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Bob, the important pharse is "only if it is clean". Maybe TD's should check the balance before all tournaments, no just nationals. |
| June 8, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | bruce yes they should.what about the guy who only has 1 bat that is taken from him,he now has to mooch off his teammates.our bats are already fragile let alone letting a couple of guys use them. i guess there really is no good solution to this prol,unless we go to the 52-275 ball,oh by the way you were one of those senior guys hitting it out at CST. |
| June 8, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Bob, I'll bet that fellow with one bat won't hit up the middle and won't lend his bat to anyone that does! Problem solved. As for CST and the 52/275, I did hit a few out but they were hit perfectly. Any mishits wouldn't go. |
| June 8, 2010 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | Should my bat be confiscated if it is end loaded? I don't get it. I purchased it that way. Many senior bats are purchased that way. I would not be a happy camper if I traveled to a distant tournament and had a TD attempt to take my bat away because it is end loaded. |
| June 8, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Salio2k, we are talking about bats that have been endloaded after purchase, not those that are endloaded and tested by bat manufacturers. |
| June 8, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Salio2k, as a matter of fact, I swing 29 and 30oz MM endload bats. |
| June 8, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | bruce that fellow only has to do it accidentally one time and hit him than he is out a bat. also bruce on the 52-275 ball that is the way it should be,mishits should not get you a hr. sal like bruce said not the mfg endload bats,the ones that are done after being bought. |
