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Online now: 2 members: OG Reggie Reg, TABLE SETTER 11; 114 anonymousDiscussion: Terry, Is it time for a \"2\" division senior national?
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| Oct. 22, 2005 Gary Heifner 248 posts | Terry, Is it time for a "2" division senior national? The bat and ball issue will never be resolved to everyones satisfaction. Is it time for a recreational and competitive national tourney? Use a 375 ball and (God, I can't believe I am saying this) the ASA dead bat/no pop bat list and have a recreational National. Also, have a Competitive National with a good ball and U2 and other high tech bats legal. This would give all the oppoirtunity to play at the level they want without bitching. You will get exactly what you expect to get at each national. |
| Oct. 22, 2005 red 28 posts | I've suggested several times, AA single wall bats AAA double walls, Major and major plus all bats legal. Make it simple if you want the hot bats move up and play with the big boys. I'm a AA player and have a good bat and I like it but to make the competition even I'll give up the bat. Problem all players want to hit the ball hard and have a little power but do not want to play big teams with hot bats. Good balls for all divisions. Also AA still no HR's. this keeps big boys out of this division more than any rule. I'm tired of hearing guys hit it out in AA and then bitch about the rules. Again if you want to be the big bopper, move up and play with the big boys. |
| Oct. 22, 2005 JTS2 Men's 55 88 posts | If you allowed the U2 and used 47 core 525 balls the major and major plus would play games in the 50 and 60 or higher and games would last 2 or 3 hours. You can't have it both ways either hot bats and sock balls or bat restrictions and good balls. |
| Oct. 22, 2005 slomo 47 posts | I don't want senior ball to go the way of most slow-pitch softball. The young guys have practically destroyed tournment play both at the local and national levels. Back when I began playing slo-pitch (several centuries ago) you could find several 30-40 team tournaments every weekend at any local park in St Louis. Today the parks are bare and rundown. When the young guys do get a decent size tourney (8-12 teams max) it's mostly juiced up bangers, some who can't play a lick of defense. The scores are rediculous and the games go on for hours. Boooring! Give me a game where a good play by the SS in the hole results in a DP that actually means something. There are a few old guys that can still run, catch and throw; who can punch the ball to the opp field to advance the runner or score an important run. I'll play and watch that type of ball any time over the one-dimensional crap that the goons call softball. If you want to keep senior ball growing then don't allow us to die the way the young guys killed their game. Let's keep our game alive and vibrant (at least at the AA and AAA level) . If the majors and major plus guys want to play goon ball let'em have at it. |
| Oct. 23, 2005 Walk 192 posts | Goon softball where have I heard that phrase beforeÖ. Oh yeah this past summer at Columbia Mo. We were playing a team out of ST. Louis and the wind was blowing in. We were using ASA bats and some of the worst softballs ever. Before the game started this team started talking about how there would be no goon softball played today. Well just as soon as the first hr was hit the complaining started. Illegal bats, goon softball, and so on. The umpire and TD checked the bats and they were legal in fact the St. Louis team was using the same bats. There were only two hr hit the whole game and if I remember right we spread the team by hitting, running, and playing defense. They even complained when the so called goon hit a rocket up the middle. It was not even close to the pitcher but the crying never did stop. What is boring is watching a game that is based on the other team making errors. This is SLOW PITCH softball. People are suppose to hit the ball hard and some are suppose to hit the ball far. Everyone has worried so much about the hr that the powers to be have installed hr rules, and time limits so what else do you want? AA and AAA donít have hrís or at least very few. AAA in the SSUSA allows balls hit over the fence to be doubles but not hrís so why do they enforce the AA and AAA rules on the Major and Major Plus divisions? If Major and Major Plus softball is nothing more than GOON softball then explain why we have hr rules, time limits, and regional rules. If you want AA and AAA to stay pure of the GOONS then you should be pushing for no regional rules for the upper levels and as you say we should be able to play ìone-dimensional crap that the goons call softballî without the restrictions of the AA and AAA mentality. But that is not what is happening. Instead senior softball is following the path of younger softball and if it keeps up it will die also. You are right the young men killed the game but they had a lot of help. Back when I played ìGOON SOFTBALLî in the old dayís one of the biggest tournaments in the country was the GATEWAY CLASSIC held in St. Louis. The tournament started in the late 1960ís and lasted until 2000 as its founder envisioned it. It was held on Memorial Day weekend and it was a blast. When he died his kids took over but then they started to get pushed out by USSSA and other associations. And now the tournament is nothing although the NSA director in St. Louis is trying to bring back softball in that area the way it use to be. It use to be a team had to get on the waiting list or sign up a year in advance to play in that tournament but not any more, why one might ask? Well it is simple the 7 different divisions to satisfy all the complaining about the skill levels killed it and young softball. Add to that the loss of sponsorships, money from the bat companies, and the greed of the associations and you have the death blow of young softball. The home runs, new bats, better balls, and ìone-dimensionalî softball had nothing to do with it. You cannot have a Super Major division, AA division, A division, B division, C division, D division, and E division and expect to survive. In 2000 the bat companies took away their sponsorships thus killing the AA division and super major division. Many of those players filtered down to B and B players went to C and so on. Now you only have 4 super major teams in the country and maybe 30 real A teams. You have home run rules at every level and very skilled players being forced to hit the ball down. Today it is called ankle softball. Also add to that players have moved down to where an AA player in 2000 is now playing D. Why, one might ask, well it is simple too many rules, restrictions, associations, divisions and lack of money. Add to that this new WWE attitude and you have the death of young softball. Kids coming into todayís game just say ìwhat the hellî I will go play baseball, golf, or any of the many other sports where the restrictions are few and life is easier. I know I help run softball here in KC. Right now the numbers are high in senior softball but if restrictions become greater and with the numbers becoming fewer in young softball then it will die out too. I was forced to sit out this year and by the rules of the associations I will be allowed to play AAA softball next year. I will not sit out another year and if they do not allow major plus teams to pick up at least one player from around the country then this GOON will be playing down and if I do play down with the KC team then you might be surprised just how well this goon can play defense and play ankle high softball. If the restrictions donít change then the fate of senior softball will follow what is happening today in young softball. Major Plus and major players will be playing AAA softball and AAA players will fall to AA. These so called goons will adapt to the AAA game and then the AAA players will adapt to the AA game and those games will change dramatically. I understand upper level softball is not for everyone but then again lower level softball is not for everyone. What I donít understand is how upper level softball became the so called evil part of the game. You call upper level players goonís because all they can do in your opinion is play ìone-dimensional crap that the goons call softballî while you play pure softball. Well playing a game that is based on the pitcher pitching the ball SLOW and playing seven innings with the ending score 7-6 and the winning run scored on an error is not pure softball either. As I remember from dayís gone bye the home run was part of the game as were base hitting, fielding, running, and errors. No one looked down on base hitters, great fielders, or home run hitters all we really did was just try to get better. Of course that was before the associations brought in the different levels of play and now working at getting better is not important. The only thing that is important is complaining about the levels one does not play in and making sure the level one does play in stays the course. That is fine but change is coming if the powers to be do not wake up and smell the roses. Trust me the so called goons do not want to play in AA or AAA but they want to play and they will play. Walk PS sorry for the length of this but I do get tired of hearing how the home run and the guys who hit them are the problems with the game. The problems with the game are the restrictions and the non enforcements of the rules for everyone. If AA and AAA players want their game to stay as is then they should push for opening the boarders at the Major plus level somewhat. Otherwise major plus players will be playing at the AAA level before long. |
| Oct. 23, 2005 Gary Heifner 248 posts | Some of you guys must live in a strange part of the universe. What dead game? In the Chicago area, there are 1000s of suburban cities. All have softball complexes that feature 4 to 16+ fields. You can go by any of them 5 nights and week and see softball from 6:00pm to 10:00 pm. At all levels of age and ability. On opening sign up night you better be in line or your team won't get in the league. You can also find morning leagues and some on Saturdays including a lot of church leagues. As far as using a U2 and that making the game one demenional, none of you were at the 60AAA nationals last week in Phoenix. I played against and saw every possible phase of softball you could ever imagine. It was great softball. There were even 3 teams that had obvious major and major + players and only several on each could hit it out. The games had 1 hour time limits and we played a full 7 innings in all. With the 5 run cap, you don't get games in the 50s or 60s. Question for RED. Under your plan could an advanced player use the U2 and play at the major level and then a week later buy a single wall and play at the AA level?? |
