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Online now: 5 members: Bob Downs, TABLE SETTER 11, TRosenthal, ZIM 7, gts9; 106 anonymousDiscussion: Pitching Rules
| Posted | Discussion |
| June 12, 2011 Mr. Manassas 244 posts | Pitching Rules Is the pitcher allowed to use any technique that a particular umpire allows for in a given game? |
| June 12, 2011 SSUSA Staff 3490 posts | NO - The complete Pitching Regulations are contained in §6.6 LEGAL DELIVERY and §6.7 USE OF A WINDUP in the Official SSSUA 2011-12 Rulebook (both at page 44) ... The umpire's judgment in properly applying those regulations will govern play. |
| June 12, 2011 Mr. Manassas 244 posts | So...If the umpire allows it is legal at least for that game. |
| June 12, 2011 SSUSA Staff 3490 posts | Not necessarily ... There remains the possibility that the umpire is not correctly applying the Rules of the Game, and an appeal or protest to the Tournament Director might be appropriate/advised ... The Rulebook sections referenced above are the sole determinate of what constitutes a legal pitch ... Possible umpire error does not change the definition of a legal pitch. |
| June 12, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Staff you are incorrect. The SSUSA complete pitching are as follows: SECTION 6: PITCHING REGULATIONS 6.1 Strike Zone Mat 6.2 Pitch Count 6.3 The Arc 6.4 Before Starting the Pitch 6.5 Starting the Pitch 6.6 Legal Delivery 6.7 Use of a Windup 6.8 Defensive Positioning 6.8(1) Pitcher Delivering the Ball 6.8(2) Distracting the Batter 6.9 Pitching Restrictions 6.10 Catcher 6.11 Quick Pitch 6.11(1) Penalty for Illegal Pitches 6.12 Warm-Up Pitches 6.13 No Pitch 6.14 Illegal Pitch 6.15 Short Pitch 6.16 Wind or Sun Affecting Both Pitchers 6.17 Pitcher Mandated Minimum Safety Equipment 6.17(1) Release (Injury to Player) 6.17(2) Player Responsibility for Procuring Insurance 6.17(3) Assumption of Inherent Risk 6.17(4) Softball Skills 6.18 Intentionally Hitting Up the Middle at the Pitcher This shows that 6.8(2) deals with distracting the batter and says no fielder can intentionally distract a batter. It's my notion and many others I've spoken with that ASA which parented this document intended that the character of pitching as we have seen develop over many years is to be NOT INTENTIONALLY DISTRACTING which is how/why we developed the style we've see in play in SSUSA, SPA, NCSSA, LVSSA and HUNTSMAN to name just a few. |
| June 12, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | That was "complete pitching RULES are as follows:" in the second sentence. Sorry |
| June 12, 2011 SSUSA Staff 3490 posts | Actually, we ARE correct. Rulebook §6.8 DEFENSIVE POSITIONING, and in particular §6.8(2), governs the actions of defensive players in terms of what they may or may not do in their positioning and/or actions to distract the batter. While the Pitcher is certainly a 'fielder', the provision's intent is with respect to the other defensive players, primarily the catcher, middle infielders and middle outfielders, who are more likely to be in the batter's line of sight during a pitch. The SOLE determination of a legal pitch is defined as stated above, at Rulebook §6.6 and §6.7. |
| June 12, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | I invite anyone interested in this controversy to check the SSUSA rule book themselves for evidence, credibility and the meaning of what is there and is being said is there. First, staff said, " the complete regulations are contained in 6.6 and 6.7 and you ARE mistaken. The entire section 6 is devoted to and comprised of "pitching regulations" as that is the title for the entire section. Next, 6.11 through 6.15 all help "determine legality of a pitch" and not just 6.6 and 6.7 as you stated above. Further, you yourself claim what I also believe that the intent of the word fielder "DOES" apply to the pitcher making it crystal clear that intentionally distracting the batter by any defender on the field is also if not primarily intended, illegal for the pitcher. Lastly, for now, as I said earlier there is legitimate reason why there was controversy, tension and argument in Reno that will continue until effective clarification is reached regarding the essential character of Senior Pitching in SSUSA as well as specific knowledge rendered TDs, Umps, managers and players before and once a tournament has begun. |
| June 12, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | The main thing in not judgement about what happened or who said what. It is CLARIFICATION. That was and is my only point about what happened in Reno and will continue to happen until it's made clear what the essential character of pitching should be as well as familiarity with specific rules regarding legal and illegal pitches which few people who are not pitchers themselves understand and can detect under pressure and mastery of some U-trip oriented players. If you interpret the non distracting rule as fundamental as I said earlier, it gets very simple for umps, players and TD's to get and enforce acceptable pitching behavior. It would look just like what we've been doing for all the years I've been playing senior ball except when we played some U-Trip earlier in my career. |
| June 13, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | The bottom line seems to be, to me, that hitters get to hit a big ball moving very slowly with special bats only allowed for guys 50 and over. AND they get to hit the ball towards nine guys who have much more limited range and much weaker arms than they used to. Any concerns with 'distractions' are just old guys whining. No offense Joe, but the deck is stacked in favor of the offense. No doubt about that. |
| June 13, 2011 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Book is relatively clear and Staff is correct. Only 'questionable' things I see in this discussion is on 6.8(2) distraction about fielder in position of batters line of vision. There are 9-10 guys out there with one behind him. Batter has whole darn field he might want to look at. For the outfielders to be in that position what is the batter worried about seeing a Gopher or hole in the ground? As for infielders the only thing is where a runner might be and he should be on the bag during the pitch. Anyway, it isn't or shouldn't be a problem. Other ? is on the 10 second pitch time; 6.6 (I) As a pitcher has 10 seconds to release nest pitch... Doesn't say it can't be 2-3 seconds but if it does is 2-3 seconds he might get cited for 6.11 "Quick Pitch" if batter is not set. I have seen no problems with acts of and distraction over the years, only a big lack of consistent high or low calls. My primary reason for wanting the low limit to be OVER the PITCHERS HEAD, (no matter how tall or short he is), and a no limit, hight limit. It would release the UMP from many heated discussions on calls. If they cant tell the pitched ball is over a pitchers head he should not be there. Joe you have been playing the game as long as I have and seem as much. Why all of a sudden does this come up? Because you lost or couldn't hit ? I doubt it but there will be another game and who knows you might be up against the same guys. Just go out and beat them next time. Life is too short to worry about something that has been in writing all these years. I will look for you at the Western nat'ls. Really comes down to watching the BALL, not the antics going on out there on the mound, and then hitting it when it come into your zone. |
| June 13, 2011 Pricer Men's 50 621 posts | Just Tee it up for the primadonna's! |
| June 13, 2011 SSUSA Staff 3490 posts | GAMES CLARIFICATION • The games in Reno (50-Major Plus Championsip and "If" games) which apparently have given rise to this discussion were staffed by the two best umpires on site. The plate umpire called "illegal" pitches on both pitchers when warranted during the games, in accordance with the SSUSA Rulebook provisions and his own exercise of umpire's judgment. The plate umpire was rated a "10" (on a 1-10 scale) by the Field Director for those games. For additional clarification purposes, there is NO meritorious controversy worthy of further consideration. RULEBOOK CLARIFICATIONS • The word 'distract' appears exactly once, and the word 'distracting' twice, in the SSUSA Rulebook, only in the Table of Contents and in §6.8(2). Here are the "clarifications" with respect to the relevance of each subsection of SSUSA Rulebook §6 PITCHING REGULATIONS in this purported controversy - §6.1 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.2 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.3 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.4 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction, EXCEPT possibly for item C (coming to a stop before delivering pitch) §6.5 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.6 - SOLE definition of a LEGAL DELIVERY §6.7 - SOLE definition of a LEGAL WINDUP §6.8 - POSSIBLY relevant to issue of distraction before pitcher begins delivery (See §6.6) §6.9 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.10 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.11 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.12 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.13 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.14 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.15 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.16 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.17 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction §6.18 - Completely irrelevant to any issue of distraction |
| June 13, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Staff. All the rules regarding height, continuous motion, full stop for one second, quick pitch et al have to do with the foundation by which intentional distraction can be judged. This all goes to what I was saying earlier about how it just about takes a pitcher to know what pitching is all about. There's no bad guys, here. It's understanding what's involved and really going on inside of our game. Rules come from intention and meaning and again, it is OBVIOUS to me and many that the fundamental character of pitching a la ASA which fathered the SSUSA rule book is for minimum distraction/deception on the part of the pitcher. If you want to change it, knock yourself out. Just understand what is going on and what the ramifications will be when/if any change occurs. |
| June 13, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Get it yet, staff? Think why there's rules there AT ALL for the pitcher... It's to keep him/her from doing exactly what Donny does so well coming from his extensive and masterful U-trip experience. It's too keep the pitcher from distracting or deceiving the batter by his antics and movements. How come pitchers before Donny and some of the other young ones have all discovered the same fundamental character and replicated it for YEARS without bifurcation or deviance of any significant kind? I think the founding fathers of the ASA style pitching realized if pitchers could deceive than batters could and would take their heads of as a matter of course and that ASA was to be more relaxed and hitter oriented mode of play, one that promotes larger participation making it fundamentally easier and more enjoyable for "regular" players to have some fun and do well. Just like with having good equipment the ASA style of pitching which parented the SSUSA regulations were designed for the greater number of participants to enjoy and do well thereby encouraging more participation year after year. U-trip style pitching and restricted flight balls cater to the most masterful, more elite segments of the softball population. It is why both of these are, should be and will be defeated and ignored as movements into the main of senior softball in my opinion. |
| June 13, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | 6.8 (2) DISTRACTING THE BATTER A fielder shall not take a position in the batter’s line of vision or, with deliberate unsportsmanlike intent, act in a manner to distract the batter. A pitch does not have to be released. NOTE: The offending player shall also be ejected from the game. The word "or" is significant. It means stand alone or separate from the precedent clause. So it can be read, "A fielder shall not, with deliberate unsportsmanlike intent, act in a manner to distract the batter." This is unqualified any further and appears in the middle of pitching regulations and is obvious to me that it signals a sporstman-like approach/character for pitching behavior which is how we've been interpreting it all along. |
| June 13, 2011 Pricer Men's 50 621 posts | How's that soap box working for ya? |
| June 13, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | pricer you are so right,this same individual talks about how he is a great pitcher by using different speeds,type pitches and such,but he isn't trying to deceive the batter,yeah right.he can't have fun unless he is allowed to tee off on the ball.he wants it his way only....then cry's like a baby when it is not his way...what a joke...... this so call major assoc he talks about is nothing but teams from norcal getting together to have tourney's,and guess what,they usually are playing the same 6-10 teams all the time playing each other in any age div they put together,oh i know i have play in them before i moved. staff i appreciate the rules being shown and thank you very much for your professionalism. |
| June 13, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | I have to admit Joe is puzzling me on this one. Craftiness is all a pitcher has to combat special bats and diminished defense behind him. If hitting is all that counts someone should just start a national home run derby circuit. |
| June 13, 2011 PattyMac 90 posts | Joe, Good to see you back on board. I quit playing with the young guys here in Florida because it was mostly USSSA and the umpires had no clue as to what the strike zone was. Anything crossing the plate, no matter how low or how fast was a strike. I never practice hitting this type pitching as no where in senior softball is this type pitching allowed. Also slow pitch is a hitters game and always will be. A true 12 foot arc is a great batting practice pitch. If you are 6 ft. tall then extend your arm above your head and hold the bat as high as you can and then stand on you tip toes and you will see that 12 is not so high. I have showed this to a couple of umpires who were allowing 18 to 20 ft. arc and they were amazed. Actually started calling illegal pitches after that. Hope to see yall soon after rehabing from ruptured appendix. PattyMac |
| June 13, 2011 Pricer Men's 50 621 posts | It's OK for the bats to push the limits of insanity, but please, please punish the pitchers that even think about deceiving the batters. |
| June 13, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | patty mac, you will still have about another 2' up past the bat. |
| June 13, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | At the end of the day it is a big, slow-moving ball being hit with special bats towards fielders with diminshed speed, range, and arm strength. |
| June 13, 2011 PattyMac 90 posts | At the end of the day it is still slowpitch and it is a hitters game and always will be. Pitchers should have to follow the rules just like everyone else. 6-12 is a perfect pitch to hit. That is the rule. Mad Dog - I have always been a couple of inches short. lol |
| June 13, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Patty. Glad you're doing better and on your way back. U-trip and ASA are two completely different pitching styles and philosophies and should remain as such. Try the Centenarian when you get ready to swing. It's very close to the Yellow Rip-it that was out and about for a short while. |
| June 13, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | It is players' jobs to push rules, and officials' jobs to enforce them. Sometimes the player wins, sometimes the official. That is how most sports work. Patty, no problem if you just want to hit. Play home run derby. |
| June 13, 2011 Pricer Men's 50 621 posts | Patty says "At the end of the day it is still slowpitch and it is a hitters game and always will be" Where did you play ball at before senior ball? Good teams played solid defense with timely hitting. Softball is supposed to mirror baseball games on the scoreboard, not basketball!Never have and never will be impressed with equipment today. It makes some players at 50 years old players that they wanted to be but could not be at 30. |
| June 14, 2011 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | I have been amazed by some threads here, but this one ranks right up there with the most amazing. A pitcher has to lob the ball 50-56 feet to a prescribed height and hit a relatively small mat with it. We have these amazingly potent bats to hit with. I don't care if the pitcher unveils a lifesize poster of J-Lo from behind with a thong on and holds it up. I'm still going to hit the ball (I think). A homerun used to mean something. You used to have to hit it to get it. Now we are constantly watching the situation and hitting down to keep from hitting a meaningless bomb. 15-20 runs in a regular game used to be a good game-now we have rules to keep the scoring from getting out of hand. Personally and selfishly, I love the fact I can still hit the 'big fly' with regularity and the distance can be breathtaking. Is there a point, though, where it almost gets boring? Where nothing is 'special' anymore because we have seen it all offensively? I have seen players get mad at themselves for hitting a line drive single instead of hitting it out. Is that really what softball was meant to be? Whatever game is presented to us, though, I will be out there with my teammates playing as hard as I can and enjoying a few beers as long as I can. |
| June 14, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Pricer said what I have been for years. The senior game has been taken over by insecure old guys who need to relive the youth some of them never had. |
| June 14, 2011 DCPete 409 posts | Where did you come up with the idea that "Softball is supposed to mirror baseball games on the scoreboard . . . "? You don't have 10 to 20 strikeouts a game in slo-pitch like you do in baseball. And it's always been a lot easier to get a clean hit off a 10 mph underhand throw than a 100 mph overhand throw so there's just no way the 2 games should have similar scores. You must be thinking of fast-pitch softball except no one plays that anymore . . . |
| June 14, 2011 tater9 62 posts | Gary19 Nothing more than a marketing technique to reach out to a portion of the population that will continue to buy the product. You either buy in or you don't. At his point more are buying in that not thus resulting in a positve product for that portion of the population that is participating. Is it a watered down version of what we used to play...absolutely but the product must be positive from the participation side and the money side or it would fade away. By the way..played for five years but the game became to much like the movie Ground Hog Day for me. |
| June 14, 2011 Pricer Men's 50 621 posts | Pete, are you serious? This is all you got outta my post. If so, you are a lost cause and probably never played ball at a very high competitive level prior to senior ball. "Where did you come up with the idea that "Softball is supposed to mirror baseball games on the scoreboard . . . "? You don't have 10 to 20 strikeouts a game in slo-pitch like you do in baseball. And it's always been a lot easier to get a clean hit off a 10 mph underhand throw than a 100 mph overhand throw so there's just no way the 2 games should have similar scores. You must be thinking of fast-pitch softball except no one plays that anymore . . . " |
| June 14, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | 10-20 strike outs in baseball,hell the record is only 20 and that has been done once or twice.very rarely do you anything above 10.... oh ask the guys who are crying about the pitcher trying to deceive them in this thread about the ball coming in so that can't hit it.... |
| June 14, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | oops "that THEY can't hit it" |
| June 14, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | He did not say 10-20 strikeouts per team, but I am assuming he meant per game for both teams. And that is very common. |
| June 14, 2011 Pricer Men's 50 621 posts | Pete, are you serious? This is all you got outta my post. If so, you are a lost cause and probably never played ball at a very high competitive level prior to senior ball. "Where did you come up with the idea that "Softball is supposed to mirror baseball games on the scoreboard . . . "? You don't have 10 to 20 strikeouts a game in slo-pitch like you do in baseball. And it's always been a lot easier to get a clean hit off a 10 mph underhand throw than a 100 mph overhand throw so there's just no way the 2 games should have similar scores. You must be thinking of fast-pitch softball except no one plays that anymore . . . " |
| June 14, 2011 GI Men's 60 228 posts | Hi Webbie Thanks for your words. You know me as a pitcher. have been for last 30 years. I will do whatever I can to gain some kind of break against home run hitters like yourself. You look down yes I will quick pitch, If I can I will throw the fast ball or high one with two strikes to try again to get the edge. Works some times but often not. I agree with you I will play softball and be thankful for the chance to play no matter what bat or ball they put out there for us to use. I am more happy these days just getting the chance to be around guys who I have been playing with and against for the past 30 plus years and to share these times together. As has been said at the end of the day I still have to pitch a big ball at a very slow speed to players over the plate. I find I fool more young kids these days with the illegal pitch than a seasoned player who knows the rules. We have a great game maybe not perfect but than again where is a perfect game being played. Not in this world . I will miss seeing you in Precott this weekend BUTT will not miss pitching to you my friend. Be well guys and enjoy. Many never made it to 50 and never got to play. GI |
| June 14, 2011 Tim Millette 615 posts | I don't know about he rest of you guys but, I find Joe's hair style DISTRACTING when I face him on the mound. What do the rest of you think? Should Joe be banned from pitching untill he gets a stylish hair cut and wears a proper hat? Ithink it's only fair we get the wild crazy young utrip hairstyle out of our senior games.... |
| June 14, 2011 DCPete 409 posts | Thanx Gary19; thought the comment was completely obvious to begin with but apparently not. Pricer, really now no one has hit over .400 in the Major Leagues since 1941 (when Ted Williams got screwed out of the MVP but that's another issue) but every decent slo-pitch player should be able to easily hit over .400 so how could the scores possibly be the same in both sports??? |
| June 14, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Softball scores should mimic baseball scores? What??????????????????????????? I need some of what you're smokin', son. Why'd you kill the Blue Dot ball and 44x 525 balls we used to use and have fun playing with. Why don't you share that with us? What happened to the good balls we used to use and why???? Safety? What a crock! We'd all go back to single wall bats and good balls in a heart beat but some have got their feet firmly positioned so they could glean some gold off the "change" in our game. The "kinder gentler game" was invented for fun and profit...theirs and not ours, a master plan to return civility to our wild and dangerous brand of having fun and it's never gonna see the light of day I'm happy to say. These guys miss the point and the boat continually. Hitting with a good bat/ball combo is satisfying and FUN for a zillion reasons. That's it. And if you try to take the fun out of our game 'we won't come'. Hitting with good equipment affords the average regular player satisfying "bang" for his buck and motivates players to participate, invest and play. It's the "elite" of senior softball and those who'd like to make money off us who are trying to kill/change the game we have always wanted and tried to play. The longest ball I ever hit in my life and it's not close was with a 405 Worth EST and a Blue Dot ball at night with the wind blowing out. That was before composites were around. DeMarini changed the game with his double wall metal bats which preceded composites. No one was complaining then. Kinder, gentler softball is an obvious move grounded by a couple of confederates, anonymous and not, who team up against me/us and the present version of our game that is endorsed across the board in Senior Ball and it's rife with naked self interest, ignorance of us and our game, manipulation and miss-direction. |
| June 14, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Tim. You playin' with Danville this weekend? Thanks for letting me know it bothers you. You're giving me an edge I might be able to use against you and it's sure worth a try because nothing else I've done against you ever did a thing. Maybe I could comb it different each inning or color it. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Hope to see you in Pleasanton. I've got a couple of things to bring up to you that could help us all in NorCal. |
| June 14, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | What would it take (thanks Gary Hoffman) for each softball diamond to have a chain link screen placed in front of the pitcher and locked up again against the back stop at the end of the day. Hit the screen and you're out/foul ball. Then we can all have our game and the bat manufacturers can continue to make hot bats and we can stop the slide of balls at 44x375 and have a lot of fun. There's tons of things we could do to make the game/pitcher safer that have NOTHING to do with taking the fun out of our game. |
| June 15, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Joe, for many pitchers "our game" includes defense, and your proposal takes that away. |
| June 15, 2011 perly 88 posts | It's great to see freedom of opinion being expressed. Using ASA/SSUSA rules for pitching is what most of us have played for years. Good umpires should know what a pitcher can and can't get away with. If the umpire doesn't enforce the rules that creates a bad situation. Good pitchers also know how far they can push the envelope. Some pitchers will violate the rules and it's the umps job to stop this. Any "good" pitcher changes speed, arc, position, motion, etc. They should take any advantage they can to get us out. My opinion: Hit good balls & bats. A 6-4 score in softball doesn't show good pitching & defense it shows lousy hitting. Give me a 25-24 score any day. |
| June 15, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Pete and Perly. Right on. When you get into the kitchen of the couple of zealots who champion changing our game for "their" sake they get testy and disparaging. It's been their character all along. Watch and listen as they appear and reveal themselves for all to see. Just signals who they are and we are and that you're hitting the ball straight and hard, right at 'em. Yes, Perly. The umps/TDs need to know the rules intimately about pitching legality and its fundamental character. This, as I have said from the beginning, is/has become a controversial and important topic that's needs further clarification as we all move down the road better together. ASA and U-trip are 2 completely different styles/philosophies of pitching and should be kept as such. We, seniors are used to and prefer the non distracting/non deceptive character that defined the ASA-parented SSUSA code of conduct. |
| June 15, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Let's see. How about, since we seem to want to water-down pitching, use special bats, and due to Father Time have fielders with diminished range, speed, and arms, we just play t-ball? |
| June 15, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | i just love the way people whine,when they get to hit a ball that travels toward them at less than 25 mph.the pitcher is supposed to do what ever he can to make it harder for the batter to hit the ball,that is the way it is in any assoc,mlb,little league,high school or otherwise.if it wasn't we would use a tee and just blast away.the pitcher has to throw it to a specific spot(THE MAT),THE BATTER KNOWS WHERE THAT SPOT IS,unless he is blind,get over it and play,it is already sided to the hitters side,let the pitcher do what he wants on the mound,in the end the ball only comes in at a very slow speed,if you can't adjust,go play checkers or something less challenging to ya,say maybe sitting in a rocking chair as you are to old to play. as for hitting middle on purpose at pitcher just b/c he does stuff to fool you,well your just a punk.......... |
| June 15, 2011 tattooball 774 posts | This is a joke right? Grown men complaining that a pitcher is decieving you with a ball 12 inch delivered underhand at less than 30 mph. Hell 8 year olds hit a 9 inch ball traveling 40+ mph and you don't see them complaining. |
| June 15, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | yep tattooball that is what they are doing......go figure...... |
| June 15, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | I agree G fundamentally. The game never should have been changed at all. We'd still be using single wall bats and 47x525 balls and having a blast. But once you introduce change then it's what to change and what not that becomes topical and apropos. Right on cue, Robert with your disparaging old and tired crap. Softer balls mean softer brains. Can't play like you used to, Robert? Get out of the way and let younger and stronger guys have some fun. No wonder nobody wants to get old having you as a model with all your crying, cajoling and whining you sad old, hypocritical dog. Have a good time in Reno hitting lethal rockets at all those you're trying to protect. What a joke you sad, old dog. |
| June 15, 2011 perly 88 posts | Gary19, you talk about players with dimished skills and that's true to a degree. How about senior guys to go to the gym, take more BP than they ever took when they were young and work hard at the game. Yes, they may be slower with less speed and had-eye co-ordination but they may be better prepared, smarter and more dedicated than when they were young so there is a balance. I'm talking about guys who work at the game and try to stay in shape. I know some senior playes who are pretty good now but weren't worth shooting when they were younger. tattoball, there's a guy named Andy Purcell, who plays for Resomondo. Resemondo is probably the best team in the world and they play against the top teams in the young guys conference. The people who face Andy, and these guys are getting paid to play at the highest level, talk about he can control a game with his pitching. Maybe you've never faced a "great pitcher" or your a better hitter than the guys who have thier names on manufactures bats. |
| June 15, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | as usual you will twist it to fit your needs,never once have i said i wouldn't play or scared to play,and proved it in reno against many teams there,i played 3rd the whole tourney and had a good time and defended pretty good.if we had been using the 52 ball i still would of had a good time,that is the difference in me and you,your scared to use the 52 ball and show us how little skill with the bat you have,i'm not afraid to play with it or the 44 ball,so maybe you should rethink what you say before opening your mouth,and as i said before,i'll put 10 of me against 10 of you any day of the week,and have the confidence that i will win that game,you can't or won't say that as you know you can't play all 10 spots on the field,so who is old and slow,so who is the real joke,you are. |
| June 15, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | perly, there are certainly guys our age who do keep themselves in very good shape, so to that extent I do agree with you. But, I would be willing to guess, 95% of the guys still playing are not as fast, have as much range, or have the same arm strength they had 25 years ago. Also, in many cases, seniors don't see as well as they did 25 years ago and that certainly can factor into diminished defense. That is all I was referring to. |
| June 15, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Perly. Great comments. Even in slow pitch there's a ton a good/great pitcher can do to control a game. Guys like Mickey Hughes, AC Linde, Mark Huber, Billy from Nighthawks just to name a few, are monsters/masters at controlling opposing batters. Robert. You demonstrate no integrity regarding your views and opinions. You champion changing our whole game to suit your own selfish needs and your decline as a player and competitor. You're a hypocrite and a sad, old man and nothing either one of us can say is gonna change that perception of you. Sad Dog. |
| June 15, 2011 4Four4 Men's 60 87 posts | Tiant, Tekulve, Valenzuela, Marichal,Quisenberry all made the big game more challenging and fun to watch with their deliveries. Many more did it with their timing, control, and forethought. It's hard to fault a pitcher for being athletically creative to get an edge in a hitters game. DH - #4 AO/Bathtub Billy's |
| June 15, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | 4four4,your are forgetting all the knuckleballers also,they really are trying to deceive the hitters....LOL...... whinestein,take the challenge,or are you afraid,i ready,willing and able to do so.i have stated such,what about you, afraid. hell if ya just want to do a 40yd run(making it short for you,but any distance you want to tho),i'll do that,we can see who is the slowest. |
| June 15, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | That's all well and good, BT. In U-trip Style softball you can juke, fake, distract all you want. It's part of the character of U-trip but it's NOT part of the character of ASA and certainly not the character of pitching seniors want to play. There's a reason that U-trip dried up for seniors some time ago. We, as a group, don't like it. It makes contests more contentious and aggressive. It serves elite players more than regular ones who just want to hit a ball hard and well and have some fun. First, there is no doubt that U-trip and ASA are 2 completely different styles and philosophies of pitching and they need to be kept as such. Second, seniors, generally speaking do not want to play with distracting/deceiving behavior done by pitchers. Third, SSUSA is being tested by "newcomers" regarding its senior policies, tradition and character and should respond accordingly making it clear who they/we are so there's a minimum of tension and conflict on the field like some of us saw and witnessed in Reno. It will be sign of things in tournaments to come if there isn't immediate or next to immediate resolution of this, our most recent and important controversy. Mark my words. Lastly, you have to ask yourself why the distracting rule which is not qualified by any further statements appears right in the middle of pitching regulations both in ASA and SSUSA rule books. It is obvious to those who truly understand the game we play that the character and intent of pitching in ASA/SSUSA is meant to be not distracting or deceiving. SSUSA should step up to the plate just like we do in NCSSA, get or find out what's really going on from inside our game and care enough to define for it's members what's appropriate and in the best interests of all. |
| June 15, 2011 perly 88 posts | gary19, your pionts are well taken and I agree with you. I just don't like the idea of using inferior equipment because we're getting older. Fighting technology seems to be couter productive to the game. I watch/play with some really good young guys and they hit the middle with some bad intentions. I have never seen a pitcher get hurt badly. Same observation for seniors, I've played 8 years with good equipment and have yet to see a pitcher get a career ending injury. The worst injuries I've seen have been from running the bases with guys blowing out knees or achilles tendons. Einstein, glad to see you back on this board. I hit and lift with Patty Mac and he speaks highly of you. Look forward to meeting you, Gary19 and some of the other guys who post on here frequently. |
| June 15, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | perly, I don't care what equipement is used as long as it doesn't result in whacky rules like time limits, run limits, screens, pitcher protection rules, pitchers looking like hockey goalies, and infields looking like miniature golf courses. THOSE are all counterproductive to the game most of us grew up playing. |
| June 15, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | pitcher protections is in all levels of play,including the super players.just watch a conference tourney(usssa) and you'll see most of the pitchers wearing a min of a helmet to pitch. perly the new tech is what has ruin the game,you have bat shaving,painting,rolling and such with the composite bats,and yes it is in the senior play also.i have seen pitchers get drill and hurt,also inf'ers,so it does happen..... now at reno on the astro-turf fields there might have been less hurt b/c of no bad bounces on turf,but when we use this hot bat/ball combo on dirt and the poorly groom fields,then it is very dangerous. oh i did see some guys get hurt on the turf b/c of not being able to react in time to a ball hit at them. |
