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Online now: 2 members: TABLE SETTER 11, TRosenthal; 101 anonymousDiscussion: pitching motion
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| June 20, 2011 tucsondoubleplay 12 posts | pitching motion Played in Pinetop the past weekend and got into a discussion about the pitching motion about the pitcher for Summit. I know this was not a SSWC tournment and the wife of the pitcher stated that the shuffling of the pitchers feet has been questioned in the past and never been ruled illegal. He shifts his pivot foot taking it off the rubber before releasing the ball and according to rule 6.6 he has to maintain contact with the rubber. I thought this was a no brainer and one team brought this up to the umpire but nothing was called? I would like a ruling> |
| June 21, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | So you weren't using a pitcher's box, or whatever that thing is called that allows you to be up to 6' behind the rubber and hence not on the rubber? Or was he in front of it or off to the side? And, at the end of the day, wasn't he still throwing a big ball slowly? |
| June 21, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Tucson. He can't change his pivot once he has begun his delivery. After stopping for a second facing the batter with his foot on the rubber, the next movement is the beginning of his delivery which must be continuous. And again, the character of ASA style pitching is non distracting. It's in the rules loud and clear for any and all to see. Once the ump can determine if his INTENT is to distract the batter or even if the ump isn't sure that's enough to call an illegal pitch. The rule further states that offending player can be ejected for unsportsmanlike behavior. We need umps and TD's who know the rules and fundamental character of ASA style pitching who are not AFRAID to make the right call even if it's 10 times in a row and ends up with the pitcher being ejected. It's important we get this right as it's important to deal with any challenge to what is considered normal and traditional or else more incidents like the one both of us witnessed recently will be forthcoming creating tension and bad feeling needlessly in our midst. Anything done by any fielder to INTENTIONALLY distract the batter by the judgement of the ump is an illegal pitch and grounds for ejection. The rule and it's fundamental character are very clear. |
| June 21, 2011 stick8 1992 posts | Tucsondoubleplay I presume you mean the pitcher was off to the side of and not in contact with the rubber/pitching box? If this is the case then it's an illegal pitch and the ump should holler out "illegal" while the pitch is in the air. If the batter swings at it then whatever the result is of the swing stands. |
| June 21, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Tuc. Here's the rule: 6.8 (2) DISTRACTING THE BATTER A fielder shall not take a position in the batter’s line of vision or, with deliberate unsportsmanlike intent, act in a manner to distract the batter. A pitch does not have to be released. NOTE: The offending player shall also be ejected from the game. And the other rules dealing with presenting the ball, quick pitch, pivot foot and continuous motion are all in the same section 6 which is dedicated to pitching regulations. It is obvious to the most of us who have played senior ball for some time now that the essential character of the ASA style we have adopted is FUNDAMENTALLY non deceiving/distracting from which ALL the rules derive their meaning. We all get this loud and clear. We have replicated this character over and over again in 100s of thousands of games without it being meaningfully challenged. And it's being questioned now. That's cool. We just need to deal with it like we have in NCSSA and make a ruling. It is unsportsmanlike for any fielder to try to distract any batter for any reason at any time. |
| June 21, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Further, it has been well evidenced and documented that U-trip style pitching is unpopular with Seniors. The distracting style is more bothersome for hitters as well as generates tension, insecure swings and bad feeling for the pitcher which does promote more hot balls being hit through the middle, something many of us have been trying to avoid for a while now. But clarity is the game. If you want to change the conduct/rules regarding pitching, just say so so we're all on the same page. I don't think we really want to go in that direction but if SSUSA wants to accommodate the "new" pitching style of the young turks coming up/in from U-trip land just say so. Change the rules and let us make a choice about what we want to do. This will alleviate a lot of controversy, conflict and bad feeling generated in tournaments to come. |
| June 21, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Joe, I don't think this has anything to do with distracting the batter, intentionally or otherwise. It is simple a question of the guy being off the rubber/out of the pitcher's box. I could do everything perfectly legally, but if I am out of the pitcher's box it becomes an illegal pitch. I think that is all this issue is. As far as seniors not liking USSSA style, and it hurting their offensce, again that goes back to the apparent proliferation of old guys who just want to tee off and then tell the grandkids how good they are. Personally I don't like USSSA arc, nothing "slow-pitch" about it, but grew up watching Delmastro and appreciating both what he did and how his contemporaries did not whine or cry but just went up and hit the ball. |
| June 21, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | We disagree, Gary and I respect you for it. We have been playing every other weekend for 15 years with the same fundamental character of pitching from both the batters and pitchers perspective. It's no accident this style is so well defined to and for us. ASA is a non deceptive/distracting style of pitching. U-trip invites distraction and deception and puts the onus on the batter to be ready for anything. |
| June 21, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Sounds like you're a U-trip kinda guy, Gary when it comes to pitching and the character of the game you like to play. That explains a lot to me about some of our discussions, to date. |
| June 21, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Joe, I actually don't like U-trip because of the arc range. If I wanted to play fast-pitch I would have played against Eddie Feigner. Or at least tried to. :) But I do like pushing the ASA-style envelope as far as I can, and occasionally beyond. Much more intersting to me, and keep's the umps on their toes. LOL |
| June 21, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | let me ask 1) do you ever go to one side of the rubber and lean out there to throw a pitch. 2)do you ever try and change speeds on a pitch 3)do you try and change height of your pitch 4)do you try and throw a knuckleball or curveball. oh by the way,these all can be done playing ASA if you do any of these then you are trying to deceive the batter.the only way you can say your not is if your pitch is the same height,speed with no side to side movement every time,and you can't say that,so your trying to deceive the batter every time you throw a pitch. like i have said if that is a problem,maybe you should go find another game ,specially since the ball is 12" big and coming at less than 25 mph. to me it is fun to hit against a pitcher who is trying his best to get the better of the hitter,makes for a more funner game and gives me more satisfaction by being able to hit against him. |
| June 21, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | mad dog, that all is so true. |
| June 21, 2011 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Change yes, Gary. A curve is a different pitch than a straight ball but it's not intended to deceive or distract from the act of hitting. Pitching from an angle changes the pitch but none of these are intended to distract the batter intentionally. Jumping around, shouting, flailing arms, flipping gloves are more easier examples of intentional unsportsmanlike conduct and behavior. ASA Style is fundamentally non-deceptive and non-distracting by character, conduct and rule. It's different from U-trip. The two are very different and need to be kept separate and distinct. |
| June 21, 2011 BruceAZ Men's 70 155 posts | Tucson, we played against that pitcher twice. On Sat, he did his little hop before he started his pitching motion, someone said something to Blue but he said he did it every pitch so it was part of his pitching motion and he wasn't going to call it illegal. On Sun when we played them, someone must have told him he couldn't do it anymore because he didn't do his little hop the entire game. |
| June 22, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | BRUCEAZ,i have seen pitchers just continue to walk the pitchers box when pitching and the umps say it is ok as long as they start in there,go figure. ok so a curve is not use to deceive a batter,COME ON MAN, you really think that,get a clue please.there is not one thing on the mound i do,to let a batter get a hit.i do everything in my power to not let them on base.i throw different speeds,throw diff pitches(knuck,curve,hi-lo),is this deception NO,but i guess it is if your so easily distracted.i move with the pitch also,to hopefully have them hit it to me,is this deception,don't think so,it is called getting into position to field,quit crying and play ball,damn............... |
| June 24, 2011 stick8 1992 posts | Bruce I'd have to see this to get a true effect but as long as he presents the ball before he pitches I'd say he's OK so long as it's one continous motion with his pitching arm. |
