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Online now: 2 members: TABLE SETTER 11, cecil; 67 anonymousDiscussion: When is the last time you saw a pitcher have to leave a game from getting hit or get seriously hurt?
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| March 25, 2012 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | When is the last time you saw a pitcher have to leave a game from getting hit or get seriously hurt? I am just curious with all the talk about it. It has been about 250 games since I have seen a pitcher hit that badly. The worst pitcher injuries I have actually seen happened before the composites, before the double walls, before balls got harder, and the worst one was in 1979 when fields were short and bats were a hunk of metal and balls were still soft. Would protective gear have prevented the injury you saw? It would have in my 1979 case. Just curious. |
| March 25, 2012 FreeAgent10 62 posts | Houston, Tx. Feb this year. Pitcher from Relentless 50AAA team. Hit in the left arm, suffered a broken arm. Have seen others. Hard to believe, you haven't seen something like this or something that has put a pitcher out since 1979. Has happened to me at least twice in 8 years. Has happened to others I have seen during this time span. No gear would have prevented pitcher from Relentless. Must be others out there also. Just my 2 cents. GT Houston |
| March 25, 2012 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | January this year playing in a kids bat provided tournament. Senior player was pitching and got drilled in left arm breaking it. |
| March 25, 2012 Full Monty 88 posts | I saw our short stop take one in the eye breaking orbital bone! I saw a second baseman take one in the mouth and had some teeth knocked out! I have a broken nose from a ball hit at me playing 1st base! I saw Miguel Cabrera take one in the face! |
| March 25, 2012 JamesLG 420 posts | In our league we use senior bats and even the 40+ teams can use them and I can't remember the last time a pitcher was hit. For the most part guys stay out of the middle. The most common injury is either a 3rd or 1st baseman taking one off the shin. This happened to me last spring and I had a blood clot for 6 months. I just missed the ball. Did not blame the bats or balls just part of playing the position. Thanks: James |
| March 25, 2012 Storm5 1 posts | Our pitcher was hit in the head by a screaming line drive and was wearing a protective mask. He was taken to the hospital and suffered a concussion. He is very experienced and excellent at fielding his position. 50 Major is not for the weak hearted and I see the same players hitting up the middle every tournament. I would support some type of protective screen for pictures if it was ever up for vote. No game of softball is worth serious injury. |
| March 25, 2012 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Let's see, I saw a pitcher leave the game in July from a broken thumb being hit by a ball. I saw a pitcher leave a game in June from a hit to the midsection (don't know result, but he didn't return for the tournament). And I saw a pitcher get hit in September on the thigh that knocked him out of the game. Doubt if it was broken because he limped off the field, but he was also done for the day. All of these were Miken-hit balls in senior play. Thank God, it has been a few years since I saw a pitcher get beaned. Saw some close calls, even had 2 or 3 myself in the last year that would have knocked me out if I hadn't got my glove up, but no one actually hit on the head. I stayed in last September when a bad hop caused a wicked bruise on the forearm that swelled to the size of a tennis ball and took about two months to return to normal. I haven't been knocked out of a game for five years since I took a shot on the knee, although I have broken my thumb through my glove, and a finger through my glove twice in the last two years. Stupidly, I didn't leave the game on any of those, although I had to miss a month until the digits healed. Of course, with all the tens of thousands of games played, the 100 tournament games I played in last year is a small, small percentage. Maybe injuries to pitchers are more common than I think. |
| March 26, 2012 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | Free Agent-1979 was the worst one-yes I have seen them happen, but honestly I can't say I have seen more injuries since the composites came on the scene. Most injuries I see are hitting the fence, sliding, some runners being hit by a throw, or being stupid and not aware on the bases. We have very poor fields here in Albuquerque and bad hops are all over and injuries happen from bad hops no matter what bat you use. I am sure there are more now, but I haven't seen a huge amount of them. I guess my question should be rephrased to say caused by the composite/ball combo. |
| March 26, 2012 Tim Millette 615 posts | I have seen two pitcher leave the mound because they were hit. John Keigley in late 90s was hit in the foot by Helmer? After a Mt Top player hit Bretts team mate pitcher Pajl Drilling. John was playing the next week. Chris Alvarado (my team mate) was hit in the face by a special Demarini in 93?.... It broke his jaw... Out for eight weeks. I know of other pitcher injuries, but I personally have only witness two that I can remember. Even though I have only seen two... I still believe every pitcher should wear catchers gear. |
| March 26, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Tim, are you implying that Helmer went hunting? |
| March 26, 2012 Tim Millette 615 posts | Not implying anything. Fact is..... Middle has always been part of the game. Mt top had a great young player from texarcana that drilled Drilling... Paul walked into his dugout at the end of the inning and said.... Go get'm boys... First batter, liner off Keigleys foot. The middle has been dangerous for years... One game Kerry Evertt hit our pitcher twice... Another year Evertt hit our pitcher then the batter two down in the lineup hit him again. I have seen many pitchers hit. But only two get hurt to the point they had to leave the game. In the end.... If senior ball is going to keep the senior bats... The least they should do is enforce the batters box, enlarge the plate by 25%, and let the pitcher pitch from anywhere from the rubber to second base. |
| March 26, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | This approach is always strange to me, to say the least. Let's see, I get hit so I am going to send my friends after an innocent bystander. So, if I have this right, if I get sucker-punched in some bar I should send my friends after some friend of the guy who hit me, and somehow that will make us even. And this is all instead of taking my issue up with the guy who hit me myself. Just very strange. |
| March 26, 2012 runrblu Men's 50 7 posts | I`v played for 30+ years and pitched for 20+years and been banged up pretty good through the years.Got hit in the shin about 2years ago in Mesquite.A straight line drive that took me out of the game and walking for about 3 weeks.Out of work for about 3 months.Did play for about 9 months.I have never told my teammates to go after their pitcher.He didn`t do it.And I`d like to beleive the batter didn`t mean to hurt me.Now I wear a shin and still have to depend on my defense.The bats do make a deference.The balls do come of the bat alot faster these days.Its just part of the game as far as i`m concerned.I don`t want to see anyone get hurt.Were out here to have fun.Just my two cents.Alex from Westcoast 50`s. |
| March 26, 2012 leftyodoul Men's 65 106 posts | If you haven't seen a pitcher get hit just keep watching, it is inevitable. No matter what is said and how many apologies are half heartedly given out, there is still a group of players who don't care if they blow up the pitcher. Old guys with slower reflexes and hot bats and balls is a dangerous combination. I wouldn't mind seeing a rule that mandated the use of a screen in all tournaments. It's really no better in the kid's leagues. Almost everyone is using shaved bats and they care even less about shooting the middle. I pitched for my son's team for a few years and was hit in the chest, the arm, the chin and the shin. And I have the scars to prove it. |
| March 26, 2012 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | Tim, the middle is part of the game, not that you would know the difference about going through the pitcher or going around him... Here is your BS about how you think you will beat us "Rich... I hate to break the news to you but... Up the middle of the field is the best chance to get a hit against you guys. I think anyone that wants to beat tje Barons should know that the middle is wide open against you. Hitting anywhere else against your four man infield is reducing the cannves to beat you. Your pitcher throws a very good high deep pitch... That pitch and your inability to play a five man infield screams out for balls to be hit up the Middle.... I am sorry if this hurts your feelings but that's the truth. Your putting your pitcher in jeopardy... That's something our team doesn't do... We protect our pitcher as much as we can with a five man... It's nothing new... My teams have been doing it since the late 80s. So this is all according to your twisted thinking... Bottom line is you are trying to knock our pitcher out with your BS.. if it ever happens I would bet you don't make it to first base.. Back to the thread, I have seen and heard off serious injury's to pitchers... I know one of my teamates killed his friend in Batting pratice with a metal bat and ball 15 years ago.. another pitcher lost an eye. it happens and 99.9 percent of the time is unitentional.. I have hit a few pitchers myself.. protecting my pitcher and by accident. I just think with the composite age of bats there is no need to go through the pitcher and 99.9 agree! End of Story! |
| March 27, 2012 #19 Men's 70 302 posts | Is "through the pitcher" synonymous with "through the middle"? ... I know of no one with whom I've ever played for or against who has intentionally attempted to hit a pitcher ... I hit a pitcher this past weekend ... He made the play and threw me out ... I apologized profusely ... He never once displayed any ill feelings toward me during or after the game ... We shook hands and went our separate ways. |
| March 27, 2012 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | #19 that is the way it's supposed to be... however when you have jackass's repeatedly going through the pitcher is the issue.. We all have played this game enough and have hit the pitcher... part of the game.. it's the ones that go through the pitcher repeatedly with total disregard for the pitchers safety that I'm talking about. bottom line Is there doesn't need to be rule changes bats and balls are fine as they are.. it's the philosophy of a few jack ass's that like to blow up the middle that is the problem.. |
| March 27, 2012 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | swing,ya can't ask for the batters to stay off the pitcher,if ya gonna use the equipment we use now.like i have said before if ya wanna protect the pitcher you need to change the equipment,no other way to do so....so if all the composite hero's still want to use their bats and these hard balls,than you can't complain.go to the 52 ball if ya really want to help protect the pitcher........ |
| March 27, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | mad dog, I am guessing you have already figured out that those who refuse to give up the senior bats really have NO interest in protecting the pitcher, or much of anything else except for their fragile egos. |
| March 27, 2012 Donny C 54 posts | Last fall I saw a pitcher get a hard line drive in the stomach which took him out of the game. I have seen other pitchers get taken out well before senior bats came out. Pitchers have always been in a difficult position as the middle is the best place to get a hit. The great majority of balls up the middle are over the pitchers head or off to either side. The best place to hit is where they ain't and that is normally up the middle. I often pitch and have been hit by balls coming off the rubber. Gary19, my glove protects me from balls and quick reactions also help and I wish they were quicker. I have no problem with senior bats at all as I have always would buy the best I could afford. I have said before one does not ask for the least competive bat, ball, or glove out there. I did two years ago, suffer a broken big toe with two fractures while playing third base when hit by a very hard line drive. It hurt like hell and really negatively effected my running but I will still play third if asked. Keep loving life as it will love you back, Donny C |
| March 27, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Donny, same here. Though the bats do adversely affect the game in other ways, and really just aren't necessary for the oldest, slowest group still playing. But I guess they are here to stay. |
| March 27, 2012 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Bats are here, but you can choose not to use one. But you will. |
| March 27, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Sure I will, Scott. But I won't ask for time, run, or home run limits because of them either. Nor will I ask for a screen, PPR, pitcher's halo, pitcher's box, or mandatory hockey goalie equipment. Nor will I expect my teammates to hit an innocent bystander if I am hit. But if any of these are the result of using them, they aren't worth it. |
| March 27, 2012 stick8 1991 posts | Webbie for me it was Phoenix in 2009. A pitcher from Northwest Legends 50 major plus got hit in the face with a line drive and had to exit the game then went to the hospital. He suffered about 20+ stitches and quite a bit of swelling. Who was the batter? None other than myself--leading off the game. I was called out because of the then-middle hitting rule. I felt awful about what happened but unfortunately it's a hazard of the game. We saw him next day and amazingly he was mad that his coach sat him and that he didn't field my line drive. |
| March 27, 2012 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | Mad dog and Gary, hey, I would love to go back to the balls and bats of the early 80s... they were hard balls and single wall bats.. if you nut them they would go 360 ft... I would hate for them to dumb down the bats and balls!.. The bat cheaters are in abundance.. one of the reasons I like the senior ball it's at least it's a level playing field with everyone having the ability to have a bat the same as the jackass's that shave them..If they go aluminum single walls with hard balls and I'm in. Anyway, back in the 80s, it was still frowned upon going at the pitcher at least in the north Cal Area! Nothing to do with the equipment, just a slow pitch philosophy of not going through the pitcher because most knew this was dangerous for the pitcher! He's just to close to react to some of the animals we have swinging! In my opinion! |
| March 27, 2012 miken44 90 posts | i think the middle should be closed off to anybody either by the batter or by the league you play in tournaments should provide a net to protect a pitcher i have pitched and been hit more than i care 3 broken ribs on my left side i now dont pitch because of chest problems but still play softball is fun no one should ever leave the field in anyway except on there own two feet lets have a fun and safe year and good luck to all |
| March 27, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | miken, sorry to hear about your injuries. How would you feel about helping to keep pitchers safe by reducing the bats for the oldest, slowest group still playing the game? Might beat making the infield a miniature golf hole. |
| March 27, 2012 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | stick8-that guy really epitomizes the tough guy pitcher in the game. I've faced a few that I will go out of my way to keep from going up the middle because I know he will field it and laugh at me all the way to first--1 to 3. Mad dog-you keep referring to you 52/275 ball. I have hit the ball and I honestly do not see much difference in the pace through the infield and almost no difference in the short distance to the pitcher. The difference I saw was in the 'float' at the end of a long drive. Is it really going to make any difference in safety if the pace is that close to the 44/375 through the infield?? I still say minimizing the sweet spot would make a large difference. |
| March 27, 2012 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | Webbie, I say leave it like it is... and go to a umpires discression rule.. if the umpire deems a ball an endangerment to the pitcher he is out.. if the team does it twice it's an ejection.. this would be simple and no net or lines be drawn.. it will keep the .01 percent away from the pitcher.. I think this would be the best way to handle it.. |
| March 27, 2012 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Webbie, good topic. I see that there are a lot of pitchers on this message board, and some of them (most of them) have been dinged pretty well or seen it done to other pitchers. I know that softball is a sport with risk of injury—twisted ankles, broken legs, bad hops, torn ACL, etc. Nothing is going to change that. But look at the beating that pitchers take, not just in the age of composites, but for a long time. Base running injuries happen to anyone, whether from wrong stepping, collisions, or hit by a thrown ball. Outfielder injuries (other than collision with neighboring fielder) seem much rarer. Infielders seem to have a lot of experience with bad hops or maybe sun conditions, and of course collisions. But who but the pitchers have these horrific injuries such as broken arm from being hit by batted ball, broken finger through the glove, line drive to the face, concussion from being hit, weird hop off of pitching rubber, broken leg from line drive, broken jaw, etc. etc.—and even death from being hit. It comes from being so close to the batter, whether in the old woodie days or the hot senior bat days. Most pitchers who continue to play the position are good fielders or they wouldn't survive (I don't mean pitchers always with range, but quick reflexes), yet they still get banged up. We pitchers must be crazy! |
| March 28, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | swing, with all due respect that is ridiculous. Ejecting guys based on the ump's discretion. And all because insecure old guys need to be able to hit balls harder and farther in their 50s and 60s than many were in their 20s and 30s. Just sad. |
| March 28, 2012 Tim Millette 615 posts | Yah.... Swing is a dog gone genious... How about we do the same thing when a ball comes close to hitting a baserunner or any other defensive player... I can hear it now.... Hey ump... That ball could have hurt my third baseman... Or better yet.... That knuckleball just hit my outfielder in the chest.... You gotta call the batter out...lol |
| March 28, 2012 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | webbie pace maybe,but way less damage if the pitcher/fielder happens to be hit....44 = broken bones and very serious damage,52 = a bump,a good bruise..i got hit by a 52 last wed on the mound playing against the kids i got hit(it was my fault as i tried to make a goalie kick save stop,lol)on my shin,slight bruise and no prol.year and a half ago got hit in the calf with a 44 when running and still can feel where it hit as it still has a small hard spot there.that is the difference with the balls.oh we played this past monday and there 5 balls hit out in our game,hey i even hit the fence with a line drive......so the ball does travel... |
| March 28, 2012 stick8 1991 posts | Webbie I believe at the tournament level most pitchers are that way, some express it more overtly than others. They understand balls are coming up the middle and are prepared. If they aren't then they don't need to be on the mound. |
| March 28, 2012 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | Tim, don't be ridiculous, you do nothing but bring up BS talking points... bla bla bla... it's real simple, so jackass's that want to go through the pitcher would be penalized.. without changing the game with ball, bat, and nets, and lines.. if you bring up any other part of the field in the conversation, you can talk to yourself.. don't be a baby about your middle hitting! I only bring it up as a step the umpire can do simply with the protection of the pitcher in mind.. If you want to have the mind set to blow up the pitcher, stay out of the conversation! |
| March 28, 2012 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | BTW tim, you are a 700 to 800 hitter. so you get on base 3 times to 4 times a game.. so if we walk you or throw you crap for 4 at bats... we probably would be ahead of the game... since you might hit a extra base hit.. so get used to what I'm talking about... you are obviously to ignorant to understand the dialog about protecting People from serious injury and will continue to be stubborn.. so we will police you for yourself.. Get used to it.. it's your future! |
| March 29, 2012 miken44 90 posts | gary thanks for your thought but here is the thing we are all older players and we all have bat control some guys will never change there opion abouy the middle until they either see ther pitcher carted off or they are on the mound and they take one then see how fast they look for changes or want to get off the mound |
| March 29, 2012 garyheifner 649 posts | Can only remember back about 5 years. That's about 55 or so tournaments, Hundreds of games and I have seen exactly "0" that's Zero pitchers that have had to leave the game because of being hit. I pitch about a 3rd of our games and rarely am I hit at. The big guns pull deep and the control hitters don't hit it that hard that I can't defend myself. My only fear is a bad hop grounder that hits me in the nuts. A cup is a requirement. It is only common sense to release and back up 5 to 6 quick steps and assume a defensive stance. I see too many pitchers that release and stand with their hands at their sides. Faced one guy last year in a ring tourney that after release from the rubber walked "2" steps forward. I asked their manager to talk to the guy. Now, you 50s guys might have a different problem. But at the 65 level, not that many balls are cruhed up the middle in a game. |
| March 30, 2012 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | Walking toward the batter by a pitcher-I have always maintained that should be illegal. Back in the early 80's I actually had a pitcher release the ball and run toward the plate at me. I hit one almost right past his ear-if he had been on the mound or behind it would have not have been close because it hit the hole between the second baseman and second base. I called time-motioned the umpire to follow me so he could hear what I said and told the pitcher I considered that totally unsportsmanlike conduct and if he did it again I would put one down his throat. The umpire agreed with me and that was the end of that. I have not changed my thoughts on that-a pitcher that puts himself in that position moving toward the plate to try to gain an advantage should be warned once and then tossed from the game. |
| March 30, 2012 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | Full Monty-were those injuries you describe bad hops or actually hit too hard to field?? I've seen a lot of bad hop injuries-you get those with any bat/ball combo. |
| March 30, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Why illegal? Apparently he is accepting the risk. |
| March 30, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Upon further reading, of course he is trying to gain an advantage. What should he be doing, trying to give the batter one? And ejected for what, trying to win within the rules? How silly! |
| March 30, 2012 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | Gary 19 I wish there were a mute button for your stir the crap comments.. you add Zero to any conversation other than BS! IMO I bet you are and never were a ball player at any level... you live through your post.. pretty Sad! |
| March 30, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | So you find ejecting a pitcher for nothing more than voluntarily putting himself at risk a good idea? Oh, never mind. I forgot you are the guy who wants to eject a batter for hitting a ball in the same time zone as a pitcher. (okay, slight exaggeration on that.) |
| March 31, 2012 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | Swing-he is just trying to stir it up-it is his whole life. He has nothing else to do but say stupid things here. |
| March 31, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Sure Mark. And ejecting a pitcher for legally trying to win is sooooooo intelligent. Or a batter for hitting the ball through a legal part of the field. |
| Sept. 4, 2013 Foster38 1 posts | I have pitched for 14 years in a fairly competitive league. I finally got hit, and knew it was only a meter of time. I've always said to myself I won't get hit in the head because I have my glove ready. Well, I didn't. But I did take an absolute rocket off the forearm of my glove hand, breaking my ulna. Almost certain I'm coming back with some type of head protection next season and possibly more. |
| Sept. 4, 2013 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | I was surprised to see this old thread brought up again, but Foster38's experience adds to the list. Yes, Foster, all of the long-time pitchers I know have been plunked by shots up the middle that they just couldn't react to in time—either to field or avoid. Most of my injuries have been bad bruises or broken fingers. But a broken forearm—ouch! The reason is the "absolute rocket", an apt description of the current balls coming off of composite bats. Or as mad dog might chime in, the wrong ball that breaks bones instead of making bruises. |
| Sept. 4, 2013 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | By the way Foster, I see you are planning on pitching again next year. I'm still pitching, also. We must be crazy. |
| Sept. 6, 2013 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | As a pitcher, I have been hit about 7-8 times over the course of about 33 years. I used to play OF, which is a lot safer. During those times, I did not wear any kind of protective gear. I took 3 really bad hits. Two were from a third baseman that threw too low as I was ducking and nailed me. Those incidents and others did not get me out of the game. Although, I was black and blue for several weeks. Protective gear would not have saved me in those cases. There was an instance that I took a hard hit ball up the middle, that I should have routinely caught, BUT it hit one of those pitching rubbers in front of me and took an awkward bounce and hit me directly in my arm opposite my elbow. Protective gear would not have helped here either. I thought that I severed a tendon. Could not lift my arm. Went out of the game and home. 2 days later, after a lot of icing, I went out to play a league game. When at the plate, I could not hold the bat and went home. After about 6-7 weeks, I was OK to play again, but it did not heal exactly the way it was, but it does not bother me at all. I beleive it was a partially torn tendon that healed itself. Now I wear protective gear, mask and shin guards, and it does not hinder my play. I figure at 63, I did not want to press my luck and wait for a smash up the middle that I did not react quickly enough to. I even bat with the shin guards on, rather than deal with the putting them on and off. After a month of batting with the shin guards on, I do not even know that I have them on. I hit the ball up the middle or where ever the largest hole in the infield might be, so you hit the ball up the middle too. I never cared in the past and do not care now. Andy Smith, 55/60 Major |
| Sept. 6, 2013 Caveman Men's 50 68 posts | I've pitched for 40 years and have only been knocked out of a game twice (knock on wood), both line drives to my backhand side that hit me in the wrist. It wasn't that I couldn't pitch, it was hitting. I could get a good grip with my bottom had. Omar, yes we are crazy! Treacy |
| Sept. 6, 2013 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Caveman, you raise a good distinction: there is getting hit and there is getting knocked out of a game. I've long ago lost track of the number of times I've been hit, and continued to play with a broken thumb, broken finger, swollen shin, etc., but I've only been knocked out a game once. It was in the high 90s, which means the infield was about 120 degrees. A sharp one-hopper hits my knee, I fall to the ground, after a couple of minutes I stand up, then try to walk it off, but I still can't push off to deliver a pitch. My back-up pitcher is lying in the shade like a beached whale (he had pitched the game before). I hobble off, someone gets some ice for me, and the other pitcher comes in to the game. He is gassed. He can't find the plate, he walks a couple, he is huffing and puffing, his face is bright red, I'm afraid he will have a heat stroke. The inning mercifully ends with 4 or 5 runs. I realize he can't go another inning, so the manager puts me back in the game which I finish (and we win) and then I pitch the final game of the day. The knee is swollen badly, black and blue the next day, but maybe continuing to exercise it in the heat is good for it, because I finish the next day's tourney with minimal pain. The knee is sore and swollen for about a month. I never pitch against that batter (the 4-hitter in that game) again without backing up after releasing the pitch. |
