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| Sept. 2, 2012 Capt Kirk 541 posts | Offennsive Interference In league play we have offensive players who consistently are interfering with the 2nd baseman or SS trying to make the throw to turn a double play. Our umps seem to ignore it, they very seldom make the call for interference. Is it necessary for the defensive player to make the throw or should the ump make the call if an offensive player interferes with the defensive player ability to make the throw? Capt |
| Sept. 2, 2012 FreeAgent10 62 posts | Capt Kirk. Read sec 8.2 Batter-Runner is out. Ball does not have to be thrown. Too bad your umpires don't make the call. It happens quite often and doesn't get the proper call. Good luck |
| Sept. 2, 2012 17Black Men's 60 414 posts | You may need to explain the situation in more detail? Sliding is allowed (unless your league has different rules) I have always been taught since little league, when running towards 2nd base and the infield is trying to turn a double play, to wait till the absolute last split second to start the slide. Make the thrower throw around or over you, but still make the slide. What are guys in your league doing? Not sliding and being huge obstacles in front of 2nd base or in the baseline??? When I was younger playing regular ASA/USSSA/NSA ball there were a couple guys notorious for sliding with their hand(s) up in the air trying to bat down the thrown ball from 2nd base to 1st. (and sometimes succeeded) That to me was blatant interference. |
| Sept. 2, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | But if the runner does nothing to interfere with the throw but run or slide with a natural motion straight to the base he is perfectly legal. Not unless seniors have a special rule for this. If the runner insists on standing, warn him once to get out of the way. After that, just make the throw as you always would. That will get him out of the way the next time. |
| Sept. 2, 2012 turn2 489 posts | If the runner is in the way just throw the ball. You will only have to hit someone once before they will get out of the way. In baseball you will get naied if you don't get out of the way. Just get the ball and throw and I think most senior will get out of the way. Donnie |
| Sept. 2, 2012 17Black Men's 60 414 posts | Yes, G-19 that is true, & unfortunately, I never have tried to hurt anybody intentionally, but I've played hundreds of games at short and 2nd base, and one of the best attention grabbers for a runner can be a hard thrown ball off the chest. That often gets guys to slide or get out of the way. One coach once told me, if you get the lead out, make the pivot and throws normally, most of the time you'll turn two. Certainly adjustments need to be made by fielders and the runners. Without knowing details it sounds like guys in Kirk's league are just big objects in the way of play? |
| Sept. 2, 2012 Capt Kirk 541 posts | Most of the baserunners do not slide, most of baserunners will avoid contact by running out of the basepath, that's good. We do have some players who seem to linger in the basepath after the force or they come into bag standing up. I guess the bottom line is, if the ump doesn't make a call, pivot and throw. Capt |
| Sept. 2, 2012 HJ Men's 70 481 posts | I raised the exact same question earlier. If the runner slides he has the right of way. He is out if he runs outside the bathpath. He is out if he does anything but run naturally to the base. Raising hands or yelling by the runner is interference and the batter is out. Unfortunately, the consensus is the only way to "legally" stop this is to hit the runner with a thrown ball. I would suggest that perhaps a manager tell the opposing manager that x, y, and z do this and that they may be hit be a thrown ball if they do so. This may work. Some senior league and rec leagues have protective rules. If the league permits the runner to overun 2nd base and prohibit any contact with the fielder it would work. We have had endless discussions about protective rules changing the game. Personally, if 99% of the players aren't sliding, that may be time to think about protective rules. |
| Sept. 2, 2012 missouridave Men's 60 166 posts | If you are playing under SSUSA rules the runner must avoid all collisions. Does not matter if he slides or not. See page 64 of the rules, section 8.6. You can find the rules on this website by going to the tournament header at the top of the page. |
| Sept. 2, 2012 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | I doubt many intentionally try to interfere but i have seen a few. 2nd base is where the vast majority of problem may arise with throws coming in to the baseman or SS. Both want the bag, usually both are concentrating on their own job getting on base or getting the ball to make the play\s. Time was when it was down or out of the way. run through, or swipe plays. They all really worked but calls were messed up, not called or seen for the various reasons we all know. I quit playing 2nd because of the confusion there and the OF usually trying to be a hero making a throw that had no chance of reaching the catcher. Very few guys had the 'arm' for that. I've seen 1st base runners hit by thrown balls, it wasn't pretty. |
| Sept. 2, 2012 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | i get ball,i turn and throw ball.....it is up to the runner if he wants to be hit by my throw.....any runner sliding is good to go,unless they do some extra curricular activity down there....also any runner running thru the base to hit my arm or me might also catch an elbow.... there no assoc that requires any runner to slide....... |
| Sept. 2, 2012 dooker 30 posts | Mad Dog: You couldn't turn a double play if your life depended upon it. |
| Sept. 4, 2012 Capt Kirk 541 posts | Doak, good call on the inteference play at 2nd at our tournament game on Friday, we don't get that call in league play. Also, watch out for the Masked Man (Mad Dog), he can turn on a dime and give you some change. Capt |
| Sept. 4, 2012 HJ Men's 70 481 posts | Capt, what was the call and why do you think it was right? This might focus the discussion. |
| Sept. 4, 2012 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | CK,that isn't doak,but greg from spurs.....he thinks he is funny......don't quit your day job greg....LOL....... |
| Sept. 4, 2012 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | Capt Kirk.....read it again..this is not Doak...it's dooker, not the same person. |
| Sept. 4, 2012 Capt Kirk 541 posts | Did I say Dooker or Doak, #6, pls add something to the discussion, read it again, Doak not Dooker!! Capt |
| Sept. 4, 2012 stick8 1991 posts | Perhaps some house league rules or ssussa are different but there is no rule that stipulates you have to slide or get out of the way of anything. A runner cannot intentionally interfere with a throw by raising his hands up to deflect, shift his body in front of or jump in the air to try and deflect a thrown ball. This is an umpires judgement call. |
| Sept. 4, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Very true, stick. You do not have to get out of the way, you just cannot get into the way. A big distinction. |
| Sept. 4, 2012 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Gary19, Time was it was actually written 'down or out of the way' down =slide, Out of way,run to the side, All to avoid contact and or prevent a throw. But this is the only book I still have. ASA 2006 pg. 107 F. When the batter-runner interferes with: 1. a fielder attempting to field a batted ball, 2. interferes with a fielder attempting to throw a ball, 3. intentionally interferes with a thrown ball while out of the batters box, 4. makes contact with a fair batted ball before reaching 1st base, 5. discards their bat which prevents the defense from making a play on the ball, G. When the batter-runner interferes with a play at home plate in an attempt to prevent an out at home plate. OUT You just need to now which rules apply under the assn you're playing in. SSUSA Pg10 1.43 Interference: is an act of an offensive player or team member which impedes or confuses a defensive player attempting to execute a play. A base rubber must get down immediately or out of the way of a fielder making the play, Read the ruled before you remark OUT |
| Sept. 5, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Scott, My God, how silly! What a shame...:( And why single me out? stick said exactly what I said. "Perhaps some house league rules or ssussa are different but there is no rule that stipulates you have to slide or get out of the way of anything." No comment to him?????? |
| Sept. 5, 2012 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | Capt, Doak is not on this message, take your medicine and try again !LOL. |
| Sept. 5, 2012 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | You happen to be the primary ranter of noting on here, I do not consider Stick a ranter, however the other ranter has toned down some what for some strange reason, and you were the last post that said it. I probably should have mentioned stick as well but I didn't. You will continue, so will we all I am sure. If people took some time and actually read rules and they can be easily found on line you might not error as much. Unfortunately they change them in many ways for serve the monetary bottom line in most cases and don't enforce the ones the have on the books to sweeten the pot even more. Few are actually made with only safety or game play in mind these days. It's the nature of the beast. Have a good hump day, metaphorically or what ever... |
| Sept. 5, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Thanks Scott, you have a good day too. |
| Sept. 5, 2012 missouridave Men's 60 166 posts | Here are the actual rules regarding avoiding collisions which is what I believer the originator was trying to get answered. 8.6 SLIDING OPTIONAL - AVOIDING COLLISIONS Sliding or diving into first base or the Scoring Plate/Line is permitted. A player may also slide or dive into second and third bases and or when returning to any base. A runner must make every effort to avoid colliding with opposing players while running the bases and or sliding or diving. If, in the umpire’s judgment, a runner misses a base to avoid a collision, the runner will not be called out. If in the judgment of the umpire, the runner fails to avoid a collision with a defensive player involved in the play, the ball will be declared dead and that runner called out. All base runners 65 PLAYING RULES except the batter will be returned to their previous base unless forced to advance. If in the judgment of the umpire the runner’s collision with the defensive player involved in the play negates a double play, the umpire may award a second out. |
| Sept. 5, 2012 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | i have never,ever seen a slide cause interference unless the runner went way out of the basepath to break up a DP....anytime a runner that comes in sliding legitimately is gonna be called for interference now,that is BS....that could be called just about every time a DP is being attempted...maybe some reading interpretation is needed here...... |
| Sept. 5, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | mad dog, I can't agree more. Let's hope the senior games is not being even further dumbed-down. |
| Sept. 5, 2012 HJ Men's 70 481 posts | If I read 8.6 correctly, in SSUSA if the runner into second misses the bag to avoid a collision and goes past it, he can return to the bag. Correct? |
| Sept. 5, 2012 missouridave Men's 60 166 posts | My interpretation is that if you go into second base standing up or sliding and hit the shortstop, second baseeman or pitcher covering the bag and this causes the fielder to not be able to complete the double play, both the runner at second and the runner going to first are both out subject to the umpire making that call. My team has had a broken thumb and other injuries in tournaments because seniors think they are still playing baseball and try to take out the fielder. Come on guys, everyone is a least over 50, many are still working and cannot afford to be injured and miss work. I would like the SSUSA staff to comment on the intent of the rule. I have always maintained that the intent was to have the baserunner who is forced to give himself up so no one gets injured. Why else would we have a second first base bag and a second home plate. I am not saying that if the play is close that the runner should not slide to try and beat the force. Just my opinion but I really would like to hear the staff's position. |
| Sept. 5, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | No one wants to see anyone get hurt, but breaking up the double play is about as fundamental a part of the sport as anything. Infielders might want to take some time and learn how to avoid the collision when possible. More dumbing down.....( |
| Sept. 5, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Perhaps this is another one of those things that should be different for each age group. I am not sure why 50s should have the same rules as 70s, but much different rules from 40s. Most 50s play a much more similar game to guys in their 40s than they do to guys in their 70s. Heck, I know quite a few guys who are still playing with the 'kids' under their rules and doing fine. Lumping all seniors together from 50 to 70+ is just too broad a brush to use. |
| Sept. 5, 2012 FreeAgent10 62 posts | Missouridave, you are totally right. Runner has to get out of the way. Been that way in SSUSA for a long time. There is no ifs/ands/ or buts about it. Hard to believe some comments about this. Read the rules guys. Men want to go home in one piece after a game. CaptKirk, see what you started? lmao. See you in Feb. at our annual EarlyBird. Good luck all. |
| Sept. 5, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Well stick is a senior ump, SSUSA I believe but not certain about that, so I find it interesting that he does not see the rule that way either. Men then need to learn by this age how to play their position and get out of the way. This is a sport to some degree, and injuries happen. It is, or should be, an accepted risk. |
| Sept. 5, 2012 missouridave Men's 60 166 posts | Stick, If you are in fact a SSUSA umpire, what is your interpretation of the rule that I posted above? Also would still like to ask the SSUSA staff to respond to what is the intent of this rule. Thanks. |
| Sept. 5, 2012 HJ Men's 70 481 posts | Stick made it clear that his interpretation could be different in SSUSA. That was specific in his comment. Dave, the rule is specific, it says must use every effort to avoid colliding, that is specific and that is why it appears to me the rule doesn't penalize the runner for following the rule and says specifically if you miss the base to avoid the collision you are not out. I have no idea if SSUSA umps are aware of the rule or if aware enforce it. |
| Sept. 5, 2012 stick8 1991 posts | Gary, for the record I am a registered USSSA umpire. I've umped E all the way up to major conference ball. I do ump one or two SSUSA tournaments a year (in Lansing) and that's only because my UIC for usssa is the tournament director and is in charge of scheduling umpires. He pays our ssusa registration fee and we pay him back out of the money we make umpiring. I'm also very familar with senior rules since I play senior softball myself. Missouridave, the powers of SSUSA may see this differently but the way I read it the key word with regard to the rule under discussion being colliding or collision. Always keep in mind what the intent of the rule is. Personally I don't equate a clean slide into second base trying to break up a double play as a collision or colliding with someone. Now if a runner comes in to 2nd, slides and kicks his cleats up to the infielders chest or reaches up with his hands to take out the legs of the infielder or intentionally tries to pry the ball out of the fielders glove then I would definitely call interference. Doing all one can to avoid a collision indicates safety-- a major concern for everyone. As I stated a clean slide into second base breaking up a dp (or any base) I don't consider to be a collision. In fact I view it as good fundamental softball. I've done it numerous times myself playing senior ball and not once has the umpire called interference. Collisions are going to happen, it's part of the game and hopefully no one will get hurt. HJ, the rule you reference sounds like the double first base rule. On any infield play at first the batter-runner must touch the outside (usually orange) bag. He may touch the inside bag only to avoid a collision with the 1st baseman due to an errant throw. I can't say if umps aren't aware of this rule but there are some players who aren't aware. |
| Sept. 5, 2012 Capt Kirk 541 posts | Lots of discussion about rules, all good, player's safety sb the overriding factor, thus allowing all of us to play a sport that we all get a great deal of pleasure in playing. Umpires do have a tough job, especially when most of the games in league are umpired by one official. As long as players respect each other on the playing field, that factor along should reduce the number of interference calls. Capt |
| Sept. 5, 2012 missouridave Men's 60 166 posts | Stick, Thanks for the response. I must say that I do not agree with your interpretation. I believe the rule is very clear, no collisions whether you intend to hurt or not. It does not say anything about high spikes or any other kind of slide. It simply says if you do not avoid a collision that the runner is out and if it keeps the defense from completing the double play than the runner is out at first as well. Of course the umpire has to make the call. Spike, we had a guy go into second base standing up as I our second baseman threw the ball he hit him and broke his thumb and knoked the ball out so he could not complete the throw to first. The runner at first was safe. No call by the umpire. What would you have called? I will once again ask the SSUSA staff to comment on their intent and interpretation of this rule. My interpretation is that if the runner is clearly out at second he should give himself. If the play is close I would fully expect him to slide but he must avoid a collision whether he slides or not. |
| Sept. 6, 2012 stick8 1991 posts | Missouridave, I'd have to see your scenario live to make an accurate call. But strictly going by your description of the play it sounds like that runner was running straight toward second base--perhaps he thought he could beat the throw? As risky & dangerous as that is that is perfectly legal. SSUSA and certain house leagues might have different rules on that but strictly going by what you write it sounds to me like that umpire was correct in not making a call. Rookie and inexperienced umpires would call interference on a play like that, experienced umps would not. Remember if that runner threw his hands up, jumped in the way of or batted down your throw to first that's automatic interference. You may note that the scenario you described is not quite the same thing as colliding with another player. |
| Sept. 6, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | stick, is there a chance SSUSA or some other senior association has an unfortunate rule prohibits guys from cleanly breaking up a DP? |
| Sept. 6, 2012 HJ Men's 70 481 posts | Dave, Spike is correct under most rules in the situation you describe above in which the thumb was broken. Our league uses ASA rules and that is the interpretation I was given. However, you and I are totally simpatico on the interpretation of the SSUSA rules. Every effort to avoid, means every effort to avoid. The fact that the rule says you will not be out if you avoided the collision means just that. I have seen defensive players stand like a rock in front of the bag. This SSUSA rule says don't smash into him and you will be safe. The ASA rules state specifically that sometimes collisions occur. This SSUSA rule is designed to prevent the collision at all cost, but still do justice, i.e., not call the guy out if he would have been safe by colliding. I refuse to avoid a collision if I feel I am being blocked, because that is the ASA rule we folow, but I think it is stupid in a 60+ league and argue unsuccessfully each winter to change the rule to a SSUSA-type rule. It is surprising to me that the powers that be refuse to clarify the rule. Perhaps, the rule is there to avoid legal liability, but the powers that be actually favor the ASA rule???? |
| Sept. 6, 2012 stick8 1991 posts | Gary I'm not sure about the associations but I suspect somewhere there are senior house leagues that do. The SSUSA rule is subject to individual intepretation. I just don't see sliding into second base cleanly and breaking up a dp as a collision. |
| Sept. 6, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Agreed, but I think the kindler, gentler, less competitive guys on here see it that way. I also don't think they understand it is the middle infielder's job to get out of the way and avoid it. |
| Sept. 6, 2012 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | everything is set up for safety.. Seniors don't need to blow out anything at this stage in life! FYI |
| Sept. 7, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | "everything is set up for safety.." swing, how can you say that when the oldest, slowest group still playing is using bats banned for everyone under 50? "Seniors don't need to blow out anything at this stage in life" But they need to get hit by balls off of the liveliest stock bats known to man with sweet spots the size of Montana? Neither of your statements seem to hold water. |
| Sept. 7, 2012 missouridave Men's 60 166 posts | Stick, Thanks again for your response. Let me be more specific, the situation I am referring to happened during an offical SSUSA tournament. So what should be the ruling under 8.6 of the SSUSA rules? This has nothing to do with winning or losing the tournament games, I just am looking for a clear position on breaking up double plays intentionally. I always thought that the intent of the rule was that the runner was to "give himself up" to avoid injuries just like having a double first base and a second home plate. I am not interested in debating whether or not this fits the "traditional" style of baseball or softball, I just want to know what the intent of the rule is. I have also started a sepearate discussion directly asking the SSUSA staff to respond. I hope they do. Thanks Stick for participating in discussions and for being an umpire. We could not play without guys like you! |
| Sept. 7, 2012 missouridave Men's 60 166 posts | Stick, No need to respond to my question, the staff has answered it. Thanks. |
| Sept. 7, 2012 stick8 1991 posts | Gary I totally agree. In all probablilty you would see few if any of those kinder, gentler & less competitive guys ever get close enough to break up a double play. I suspect most wouldn't even get halfway to second. Then they'd veer off the baseline. |
| Sept. 7, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Or they would have come out for a "courtesy" runner before they ever got the opportunity. |
| Sept. 7, 2012 stick8 1991 posts | Missouridave, Here's the rule: "Sliding or diving into first base or the Scoring Plate/Line is permitted. A player may also slide or dive into second and third bases and or when returning to any base. A runner must make every effort to avoid colliding with opposing players while running the bases and or sliding or diving. If, in the umpire’s judgment, a runner misses a base to avoid a collision, the runner will not be called out. If in the judgment of the umpire, the runner fails to avoid a collision with a defensive player involved in the play, the ball will be declared dead and that runner called out. All base runners 65 PLAYING RULES except the batter will be returned to their previous base unless forced to advance. If in the judgment of the umpire the runner’s collision with the defensive player involved in the play negates a double play, the umpire may award a second out" Please note that the rule specifies the same thing I indicated to you earlier, "umpires judgement." The magic question is what constitutes a collision? Sliding into a base CLEANLY whether it be to break up a dp or to safely beat a throw does not constitute a collision imo. On close plays at all bases there is a good chance there will be some contact. Obviously a runner cannot barrel into or run over a fielder. But a runner is allowed to slide into a base. Suppose your playing second base and I'm on first. I hit a grounder to short, he flips to you for the force on me, I slide in to the bag and land right at your feet or chin preventing you from stepping and pivoting for the throw to first--that's 100% clean and good softball imo. Now if I came in hard with my 1)cleats up and kicked you 2)leg-whipped you or 3) roll- blocked you--then imo the rule would apply. Again this is judgement of the umpire. Many will see it differently. I'm just giving you my perspective. For the record in the years I've played senior softball I've slid numerous times into second base attempting to break up a dp. Sometimes I've been successful, sometimes not. But I've never once had interference called on me in doing so. |
| Sept. 7, 2012 stick8 1991 posts | Apologies, I meant "land at your feet or shin" (not chin) |
| Sept. 7, 2012 stick8 1991 posts | Very true as well Gary. I actually witnessed start up runners for the batter--he lines up 3 steps to the left of home plate and when the batter makes contact he runs for the batter. As I understand it they can do that in 65's and 70's. I haven't seen that since little league. |
| Sept. 7, 2012 missouridave Men's 60 166 posts | Stick8, Here is the answer from the SSUSA staff: The overall intent of Rulebook §8.6 is player safety. There are two primary components to that intent: • Avoiding collisions between runners and defensive players is foremost. This rule contemplates prohibiting actions by a base runner which place a defensive player at physical risk, including sliding into the defender to hinder the continuation/completion of a play. The double play scenario is specifically mentioned in the last sentence of the rule. Accordingly, we conclude that sliding into a defensive player to break up a double play is prohibited. • The rule also provides a limited exception to the prohibition against a base runner sliding into 1st Base or Home, because of the dual base configuration. (The runner may slide or dive while returning to 1st Base.) If, in the umpire's sole judgment (NOT an appeal play), the runner slides into 1st Base or Home to avoid a collision with a defensive player, (s)he will not be declared out. (NOTE: The Rule title states the intent of the optional sliding exception, but the language of the rule is vague as to its application. This was an inadvertent language omission in the last printing of the Rulebook. We will address the issue of more specific and consistent language during the Rules Committee Sessions at this year's SSUSA Annual Convention in Mesquite, NV, in late November.) You can see this answer under the discussion "SSUSA Staff Question-Collisions" I agree you can slide, you can even end up close, but the above answer is very clear, you CANNOT collide with the fielder. I hope that if you umpire any future SSUSA games that you will follow the associations intent. Thanks again for umpiring. |
| Sept. 7, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | stick, I hope if you ever ump one of my games you follow the intent of the game of softball. |
| Sept. 7, 2012 Yoda22 3 posts | I can't believe anyone would ever be called out for sliding into a bag. Sliding is usually the best way to avoid a collision. There is often times multiple players around second on a double play and trying to run to one side or the other can cause more problems than it helps. I played second through HS and every coach I ever had told me to time my approch to the bag and get off to one side or the other after tagging it. If you camp on the bag or cross the bag directly toward first in the baseline then you deserve to get taken out because you are causing the collision. If it is a close play and the runner is running fast the only way he can positively avoid running into someone is sliding and if the defensive player is camping on the bag I don't see how you could possibly call the runner out. This of course is assuming it is a clean slide to the bag. |
| Sept. 7, 2012 titanhd Men's 60 638 posts | I can see it now.Everytime a player slides into a base the infielder,Second basemen or Shortstop flopping as they do in basketball trying to draw the umpires attention. Another wasted paragrapgh in the rule book... |
| Sept. 7, 2012 Pull My Finger 81 posts | Don't know of very many 60-80 year old guys that run fast enough to slide. :) |
| Sept. 7, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Yoda, you are 100% correct. I just don't think a lot of these guys have any notion how to play the position, or care to since defense is so devalued in senior softball. So they look for terrible rules to bail them out. Pull, you might be right but many 50s still can and unfortunately I think this rule applies to them too. This is why having one set of rules for 50-80 is just waaaaay too broad of a brush. |
| Sept. 7, 2012 0 70 posts | A theory as to why SSUSA allows senior bats? By using senior bats the ground ball gets to the infielders faster so the double play is executed way before any base runners can even get close to advancing to the next base! Less chance for collision. Just a theory! |
| Sept. 7, 2012 CAPT D5 120 posts | Having played middle infield from little league, thru semi--pro baseball, I know the differeces between senior softball. They are very different in dealing with turning double plays. With senior softball you are often dealing with players who are not that experienced and/or skilled. Umpires definitely can not be relied on to protect players. I usually warn the runners who are seen as offenders of interference that they will be hit if in the way. Talking with managers and umpires has helped. The intent of the players is usually not to injure but in the spirit of competition they get carried away. Good managers getting involved makes a difference. Many managers don't do their jobs and contribute to the problems by not getting involved. To often managers either aren't knowledgeable enough or don't care to do their job of taking care of players. |
| Sept. 8, 2012 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | When I first started playing BB in little league, Babe ruth, hs ball, we did take the basemen out, catchers also. When I started SB we did that there too. FP was even more so. Then it became a business with all the insurance concerns and the game was never the same nor will it be. In SB most changes at first were safety issues and those were very reasonable. No spikes, dual 1st base the list is almost endless..... Then game times were lessened, HR's cut or eliminated and so on and so fourth. Majority of any change now are cost savers, or should that be money enhancers or makers. Like having rules of 65 and 70 minute games cut to 50\55\60\65 minutes. That loss of time, you paid for, is almost another full game you lost over the event period of time ie 5 games. Not the same game we used to play but still fun most of the time. |
| Oct. 1, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | 0, it has appeared much more likely that guys won't play without bats that enable them to do what many of them weren't in their 20s and 30s. Hence, less revenue for the associations, and that ain't gonna happen. |
| Oct. 1, 2012 5ToolsinOhio Men's 50 160 posts | Not sure if your trying to set the record for most posts orrrr most repeat19 post's. |
| Oct. 1, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Just trying to help new guys who haven't quite caught on yet....:) |
| Oct. 1, 2012 5ToolsinOhio Men's 50 160 posts | There is one good thing about reading your comments, you make me feel young and scappy for a second, sometimes even crosses my mind to drive to your neighborhood haha. |
| Oct. 1, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | I never knew I wrote anything that offends you, or that you are that thin-skinned. You don't strike me that way....:) |
| Oct. 1, 2012 5ToolsinOhio Men's 50 160 posts | Nothing offensive what so ever, its the repeat after repeat that gets me flowing haha. |
