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Discussion: WHY DO WE KEEP GOING TO THESE TOURNAMENTS?

Posted Discussion
Nov. 17, 2006
AZSAGE
6 posts
WHY DO WE KEEP GOING TO THESE TOURNAMENTS?
ISN\'T THE IDEA TO PLAY A VARIETY OF TEAMS AND HAVE SOME COMPETITION? HOW CAN WE DO THAT IF THERE ARE SO FEW TEAMS IN OUR BRACKETS? IN THE LAS VEGAS WINTER WORLDS JUST HELD, OF THE 22 BRACKETS FOR MEN, ONLY THREE HAD 8 OR MORE TEAMS. 14 OF THE BRACKETS HAD 4 OR LESS TEAMS. 7 HAD ONLY ONE OR TWO TEAMS AND THREE HAD NO TEAMS AT ALL!! THE WINTER WORLDS IN FLORIDA HAD ONLY A SLIGHTLY BETTER TURNOUT WITH 8 OF THE BRACKETS HAVING 8 OR MORE TEAMS BUT STILL HAD 9 BRACKETS WITH 4 OR LESS OF WHICH 6 BRACKETS HAD 2 TEAMS OR LESS!! THE PROBLEM, AS I SEE IT IS NOT A LACK OF TEAMS (THERE WERE 89 MENS TEAMS IN LAS VEGAS AND 123 IN FLORIDA) BUT TOO MANY BRACKETS. IT IS NOT VERY REWARDING TO GO TO ALL THE EXPENSE AND EFFORT TO GET A TEAM TO A TOURNAMENT ONLY TO DISCOVER THAT, WHILE YOU WILL GET THE PROMISED NUMBER OF GAMES, MOST OF THEM WILL BE AGAINST TEAMS IN SOME OTHER BRACKET AND WILL NOT COUNT. MY TEAM HAS DECIDED NOT TO GO TO ANY FUTURE TOURNAMENT WHERE WE ARE NOT ASSURED OF HAVING A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF TEAMS TO PLAY, TEAMS THAT ACTUALLY CARE WHETHER THEY BEAT US OR NOT. WE COULD ACTUALLY INVITE THE OTHER ONE OR TWO TEAMS IN OUR BRACKET TO COME TO OUR TOWN WHERE WE COULD RENT THE FIELDS, HIRE THE UMPIRES AND NOT WORRY ABOUT TIME LIMITS OR 5 RUN RULES AND SAVE EVERYONE A LOT OF MONEY. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
Nov. 17, 2006
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
I don't hink it's the 3 or 4 team thats a big deal to me.
It;'s playing the same teams over and over again, especially when you play them each month all year long in the local FHC tournaments.

EX::: SPA tourmanent, 2006,11 60 major teams. After seeding roune they were split into 2 divisions. ( WHY ??)
We played 1 team that was not from Florida. 1 team from Florida we played 3 times out of 6 games. Why not keel all 11 teams in the same division? This late in the year a Major team should be a Major team.

Travel days hurt many teams and I understand that.
But it will end us as you said. Teams won't go to tournaments unles they have 10 or 12 teams. Most of the time TD don't let you know how many teams until you are already there.

SSUSA had the best last month than any tournament in the past few years. It was posted as soon as the TD new anything. Had 9 in our division and only 5 Fl teams.
We got to play teams From KS, NY, PA as well at 3 FL teams. We did miss the team from MN. Best setup in the last 6 years of Senior softball.

Really tho, to answer your question.

Competition and Friendship
Nov. 17, 2006
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2647 posts
Gary, I question your choice of the words " worst offenders". In my mind I believe the associations are the offenders. I see the problem being that there are 4 brackets per age group. There are several teams in the major division that could/should play major plus. There have been suggestions that we do away with one division and split the teams among the three reamining divisions.

It is disappointing to find a low number of teams in a bracket.

Most everyone knows what the problem is (number of teams in Maj + and AA), who has the solution?
Nov. 17, 2006
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2647 posts
Gary, I re-read your post and I now see it from your prespective. Sorry.

I agree with Charle, we play for the competition and friendships. Frienship with other teams as well as my own, as I don't see them except when we play.
Nov. 17, 2006
Duke
Men's 60
709 posts
This year our team played the same 2 teams at least 5 times. One team we liked, but the other one was a pain. My team also chose to only play local/California tournaments, except for Vegas or Reno once in a while. We refuse to travel any further, because of the lack of teams in our bracket and/or the wrong teams in our bracket. As I stated in another message, i asked 7 teams if they were going to Vegas, and only 2 said they were thinking about it. One of those 2 went, and the other one did not. Might think about why these teams are not going. This is becoming such a joke, that I am contemplating, not playing tournaments, and being happy playing 4-6 times a week locally.
Nov. 17, 2006
grumpy55
Men's 60
102 posts
We are a double aa team out of midwest area and we do not not have the backing to be able to travel. We pay everything out of our pocket to play 5-6 tournaments a year in the area and there are very very few aas. We enjoy the competition even when we play the aaa teams. I believe we are competitive with some of them as long as they are legit aaa but we have played alot of them that just beat up on us and probably were major teams playing down. We would take the chance moving up to try and compete but we dont want to get our butts kicked all the time, we would just be wasting time and money. I dont know if any of this makes sense but our guys enjoy playing.
Nov. 17, 2006
Gary Heifner
248 posts
I disagree that AA is the smallest. My team has been in AA 2 of the last 3 years. With so many of the AAA teams loading up with major players, a lot of legit AAA types have gone down to AA for at least a year. The major+ teams are simpy screwed. Maybe it's time to go with 3 levels of play. AA, AAA and Major. With only three levels of play, the associations might be able to track teams a little better and deal with ringers. I am also of the opinion that to give the AA teams a HR per game is a mistake. Make it an out as before and it helps keep big banger ringers in the higher levels. My team is in Chicago and some of our guys couldn't afford Plano, Seattle and Ft. Meyers. I also think the lure of playing for national titles wears out. After playing in all of them for five years, many of our guys think park district leagues, 8 midwest tournies and two nationals are more than enough.
Nov. 22, 2006
MikeC
Men's 60
38 posts
We also pay for everything out of our own pocket and usually make 2 Nationals each year. Some of the problem is the VERY high entry fee's $525-$550 is a lot of money considering there is no pay back and the lack of awards given out. We finished 2nd in Ft. Myers and got a ugly cheap ball cap, I would think they could at least give out a $10.00 plaque to each player. I have been involved in running many tournaments and it doesn't cost $525 per team to run one of these.

I also agree with Gary about teams loading up with upper level ball players. I know the team that beat us in Ft. Myers AAA had 6 Major or Major + players playing. What good is it playing by the rules when the directors are only after the entry fee and lets any one play at what ever level they want. Many teams have grown tired of the cheating and have decided not to spend the money to travel to get beat by someone who doesn't belong in their classification.
Nov. 24, 2006
smooth01
Men's 50
121 posts
I agree with Mike C. on how expensive these tournaments are , with nothing in return ,With a 2nd place finish in the AAA World in St.Louis , individual player's recieved nothing, Mike, at least you recieved a hat
Nov. 26, 2006
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
394 posts
I think the quality of senior teams over the past two or three years has seen a steady improvement and that may be partially due to the hot bats available for our use these days. I watched a lot of ball at various levels this year and in my humble opinion…the top half of the teams in each division should be moved up a division and that includes our team. After that, I think delegation and relegation should consist of moving the top two teams in each division teams up and the bottom two down (voluntarily).

I also agree with Gary Heifner that home runs in AA should be an out. Teams and players with pop should be encouraged to move up a division. I am not so sure there should be fewer divisions in fact; I think a Rec. division should be added. Where are all the teams that play C, B & A in Huntsman?
Nov. 27, 2006
red from Wylie tx.
Men's 60
48 posts
I have played AA for several years and in the SPA Nationals we always have a great field. The quailfiers are the problem because there are not enough AA's in the area. In DFW we had only 2 AA teams one Major and us. We went to Oklahoma City area and had 12 teams but we played 2 Major teams, and one of them was put in the silver division and won easily KC Fire. It would have been a good tourney if the director had known how to divide the teams.
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