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Discussion: 2012Spring Nationals Auburndale Florida

Posted Discussion
April 2, 2012
MrBill29
Men's 70
42 posts
2012Spring Nationals Auburndale Florida
Congratulations to CROSSCUT the winner of 65AA Spring Nationals 2012
This was one big team effort, and one great group of guy's. We are going to the 2013 TOC. Thanks for making me part of this.
Bill Waterman, aka MrBill29
April 2, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Well, look again ... another tournament where 50 Major teams played against a 50 Major-plus team and the Major-plus DID NOT win the tournament! See, brass, the two divisions can be combined and it is showing you it can in black and white!
April 3, 2012
tinman
Men's 50
75 posts
Jawood,We were told by many prior to playing that the team that won should be MP as well.There may be an update to follow.The top 2 teams hit multiple HRS that made the 300'fence look like a little league field.
April 3, 2012
birdie
Men's 60
683 posts
Jawood, There was a tourney in Myrtle Beach this weekend that had 3 Major plus teams and one Major team in the 60 bracket. It was an ISSA tourney and that association has combine Major and Major Plus. The way that I understand it is the Major team finished last. I do know of one game that they one. I am not sure about the rest of games. I do not like the chances of a major team competing with a major plus team. There are some teams that do play under the radar and that is a shame. Thanks Harry
April 3, 2012
birdie
Men's 60
683 posts
I forgot to add. I am not sure about the other Major divisions. The bracket winners are not posted on the Web site. Does anybody have any input on the Major divisions. Thanks Harry
April 3, 2012
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Jawood would you be willing to give up the roster advantages with being a major plus team? The two big ones are the 2 out of border players and probably the biggest the ability to add players without qualifying them.

April 3, 2012
JBeaz
3 posts
Congratulations to Crosscut, Good Times and all the other 2012 Spring National Champions.

Jawood,

While you are right that a 50+ Major team beat a 50+ Major Plus team - twice, there are a couple things that could be debated in this particular case.

1. Should the South Florida Renegades actually be classified as 50+ Major Plus? We (yes I play for the Renegades) received that classification because we won the ISA World Tournament last year in Cocoa Beach, Florida. In winning that tournament I think there were only four 50+ Major teams, one 55+ Major Plus team and one 60+ Major Plus team. So even though this was a World Tournament, does the number of actual 50+ Major teams warrant reclassifying the winner as Major Plus?

The bottom line here is that we went into the ISA World Tournament knowing the winner automatically would be reclassified as Major Plus. So if we didn't want that to happen, we should have stayed home and let it happen to someone else.

We also could have folded, cut half the team, cried, wined or any number of things happens when a team gets reclassified. We chose to keep the team together and play on. This was our first tournament as a Major Plus team playing against Major teams. Giving runs or an extra fielder is tough and we learned some things this weekend that will make us a better team in the future.

2. Should Good Times (the Spring National winner) be classified as 50+ Major Plus? They're a good team and I'm sure both sides could give you a good arguement whether they should or shouldn't be a Major Plus team. I'll leave that debate to someone else.

3. Saturday's games were rained out in the afternoon and pushed back to Sunday morning. All the games except the games in progress and the finals were cut to 5 innings. In our case, the Major teams had the choice of using an extra defensive player or getting 4 runs. Talk about tough! In my opinion the number of runs we had to give the Major teams should have been cut to 3. Giving an extra run in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th inning is just too much. But that's what the Tournament Director decided so it is what it is.

The bottom line is we didn't hit as well as we should have. Had we scored our 5 every inning and taken advantage of the open inning (like we did in other games) we would have been more competitive. We may have lost to Good Times anyway, but we definately would have made it more difficult.

I also agree with your main point. Each age group could be reduced to an Upper and a Lower division. But then you'd have all the not-as-strong Major teams try to drop down to the lower division and I'm sure the legitimate AA teams wouldn't be looking forward to having to face the AAA teams every tournament.

Here's an idea to throw into the mix. Now that Good Times has won their birth to the 2013 TOC as a Major team, have them play any other SSUSA tournaments as a Major Plus team. Do the same for the AAA winners and the AA winners. The only exception to not playing in the next higher division would be the SSUSA World Tournament where they would be able to compete in the original division - unless they win a tournament in the next higher division. Clear as mud right.....


John Beasley
South Florida Renegades
#3
April 3, 2012
Tri18
625 posts
Beaz! I think you answered well. We didn't play to our level enough to overcome the additional runs given but Good Times certainly played great so Congrats to them. I think they would be competitive in major plus but I like your idea of breaking them in to it. Overall, good competition on the field and lots of fun in our "quasi" parking lot sales booth. Thanks to all the guys that stopped by and sampled all the new bats! Alan Tanner Renegades #8 tricoach18@att.net
April 3, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
I should mention that I am coming from the 50+ perpective as this is where we play, so I have not seen first hand if combining Major and Major-plus would be the thing to do in the older divisions.

Lecak, We would absolutely be willing to give up the 2 out of border player rules. This is a rule that helps teams with money. Yes, we are classified a Major-plus team but will not go out of our area to pick up players, we don't have any money to do this or do we want to, choosing to keep our team with players from our area.

JBeaz, There really isn't anything that I disagree with you on. We are a team that got bumped up too, without even winning a big tournament. They did it just to have someone for the big budget teams to play and justify the classification. We play on even though there is not another Major-plus team within 700 miles of us. Any team that takes runs that they didn't earn and "beats" you by those runs didn't really win the game, so don't get discouraged.
April 4, 2012
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to win one of the designated "big tournaments" with at least 6 or more teams in your registered classification to get moved up???
:::Just a side note we won the winners bracket in that tournament (ISA Worlds) late on Sat nite and Sundays games were rained out.........We were awarded the championship and quickly got moved up..........Had to play 3 tournaments with at least 6 teams and lose by more than 5 runs to get considered to be rerated to a lower division???
April 4, 2012
JBeaz
3 posts
Corky - I'm not sure what the requirements are. In all honesty, I was surprised we weren't moved up before that. Before becoming the South Florida Renegades, we played as Morgan Keegan and were fortunate enough to win a few tournaments. It wasn't like we were beating other teams bad, but we were winning against some good team, some of them were Major Plus.

Most of the players felt like we were fortunate to stay under the radar as long as we did.

IMO, moving a team up shouldn't be based on how many homeruns they hit or what tournament they won, but how well they compete against good competition. If you play as a Major team and can beat the Major Plus teams with the equalizer, maybe its time you moved up and play them straight up.
April 5, 2012
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
I think the criteria is too vague and the manpower to critique each team or each player is just not available. Would be nice if one of the associations could nail it down and put it in black n white. I still feel that teams should be rated at the beginning of the year and stay there until they qualify to be moved, based on that years body of performance. MHO(as an umpire...don't leave that up to us)
April 28, 2012
poodass
1 posts
Okay , with all that has been said , the rules were the rules and they were known before the tournament. So if you are ranked or seeded high enough do you think you win by default? No , you have to play and in this case GOOD TIMES won (Twice). A 1 run game with runners on base and very hot hitters batting. Okay you loose by a run that you had to give away. Rule was known before game was played. Secound game the score speaks for itself. No runs were needed. The Renagades played very well I thought , and so did Good Times.We did not make the rules or the rankings. We just came to play......and we did.......


Finch99
Good Times Sortball
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