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Online now: 6 members: JEllis07, MR. ED, TABLE SETTER 11, Walt Disney, dawg888, downtowndobie; 76 anonymousDiscussion: Fair enough, let\\\'s move forward...
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| Sept. 27, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Fair enough, let\'s move forward... 1. Get rid of the mat. Strike zones in all games played on a diamond are meant to be vertical, NOT horizontal. Not to mention the size of the mat, and with the inclusion of the plate for whatever reason, makes for a HUGE zone that is much bigger for short guys than tall ones. 2. Get rid of Senior bats. For a generation or two of guys who grew up using wood or 38 oz. aluminum you telling me that the current crop of USSSA-approved bats, for example, and not lively enough for you. And approving Senior bats does NOT stop cheating. Guys can still paint orignial Ultras or thin walls of legal Senior bats or roll bats, so how is the cheating stopped. 3. All bases are potentially dangerous, so decide to use a second base/plate either everywhere or nowhere. How only home is targeted for this special attention is puzzling. 4. Get rid of the 5-run inning and put a premium back on defense. The game was meant to be divided equally into two halves, one you hit and one you field. By letting teams bat without having to make 3 outs and \"earn their ups\" severely devalues what is meant to be an equal half of the game. DEFENSE. 5. Get rid of snowbirds. Snowbirds are people who go from cold climates to warm in the winter. How does a concept that is solely meant for winter activity apply to a spring/summer sport? What could possibly be the point of it? Play where you vote, and if you don\'t vote you shouldn\'t play or even be a citizen anyway. All serious responses are welcome. |
| Sept. 27, 2007 tattooball 774 posts | I'll be the first to respond to this. I agree with most points but the sliding in at home plate. Most of your softball accidents that involve running does occur at home. As far as the senior bats I couldn't agree more. Todays bats that are approved for u-trip are plenty hot enough. If this is going to start more cheating thats simple, get caught lifetime ban from every senior association period. Snowbirds, your state and surrounding states. |
| Sept. 27, 2007 DesertGuy Men's 60 224 posts | Gary- Great start. Let me weigh in here and add a couple more of my own. 1. Neither agree or disagree. Have seen too much inconsistency with the non-mat umpiring effort. At least the mat, with or without the plate, is definite and easily called by the ump on a consistent basis. 2. Agreed, for reasons better stated by others. 3. Disagree. 1st already has the split white/orange base. Scoring line or plate is the same. My argument on this can be read elsewhere (for those that may be insomniacs) 4.Agreed: Especially if the hot bats go away and balls actually can be caught rather than just tape measured as they fly out of every park except Yellowstone. I think that ssusa has tried this in the Major Plus for the 50 and 55 groups this year. What have been the results? 5. Disagree partially: For those of us that live in good weather all year, or those that come a stay with us during the winter months, snowbird stayus is good. Allows someone to play all year. Proposals for change? Yes, two: Force the snowbird to only play in their home state at national or world events, since they don't happen in traditional cold weather times. and force snowbirds to prove up front that they meet the rule. Now all a person has to do is fill out the form and lie about it until and unless they get caught. Prove you're a snowbird up front like you had to prove you were 16 before they let you drive. New idea - Can some organization, hopefully ssusa, set up a place in their web site to let teams post their intended tournament schedule for the coming year? Or at least a place where maybe teams could see who plans to go where. From what I see, most teams will try to do ssusa, lvssa, spa and maybe one or two oter big tournaments. But those aren't the problem. The problem comes with 2 and 3 teams in a division showing up, playing out of division and then conquering the world (of one or two other teams) to be a champion. That's it for me right now. |
| Sept. 27, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Thanks for the replies, guys. trumpball, maybe most do occur at home. I don't know, to be honest I have not seen very many at any base. And I completely agree with the lifetime ban, though I am sure some will say that detection is the issue, which it probably is. DG, I realize the mat give more consistency at the plate, but I think we give away too much for that consistency. The strike zone with the mat is HUGE, and again is really pretty unfair to shorter guys who now have the same size strike zone at someone 6'6". My experience, and maybe I have been lucky, is that umps do a pretty good job with the strike zone, and perhaps somebody tried to fix something that isn't as broken as some want you to believe. First is split because both guys need to put a foot on the base. This is not the case at home. Stand where you belong and make the tag, just like any other base. But we can agree to disagree. I think we agree on the snowbird thing. That is a winter phenomena that has no relevance in a spring and summer sport. Thanks. |
| Sept. 27, 2007 tattooball 774 posts | TNG, I want to thank you in your effort to bring great insight and opposition to topics worty of discussing. This really is a good place to talk softball. Everyone has opinions and that's why I'm wearing a green shirt today, I thought it looked good with my gray hair. |
| Sept. 27, 2007 DaveDowell Men's 70 4318 posts | But the shorts have GOT to go Kevin! [grins] |
| Sept. 27, 2007 tattooball 774 posts | Not til I die, and it is ear to ear....... |
| Sept. 27, 2007 4x4 Men's 65 601 posts | Yeah - Kevin likes those sales at pajama's are us - then he get'em tailored.......... |
| Sept. 27, 2007 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | On the subject of senior bats...........what would you have us do with our $200 - $300 tent poles if we were to ban them? |
| Sept. 27, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Maybe it is just the timing of things, but why when I try to pose serious questions and issues barely anyone replies but when they want to jump down my throat about something all of the closed-minded guys show up to attack? |
| Sept. 27, 2007 DesertGuy Men's 60 224 posts | salio2k - I don't think they'd do too well as tent poles, unless you're really really short. From what I've read and seen, most of them have a durability issue. Maybe the thing to do would be the next time one of them breaks, with no warranty of course, check your ego at the door and get a reasonable bat. Buy one that fit's your personal skills and comfort zone instead of one of the latest and greatest 375' rocket shot specials. I'm not sure I want to go back to the days of maybe one or two homeruns in a Class A championship played on 275' fences, but as I said in another post earlier, it's kind of boring watching balls rocket out of the park by guys that normally would be called 'banjo hitters'. Just my 2 cents worth. |
| Sept. 27, 2007 Tater50 Men's 60 336 posts | Good Thread TNG: 1. I have never liked the mat or plate as a strike: I agree. 2. NEVER liked the Senior Bats & was verbally against them, but since they are in use, I NOW use one, but would gladly go back to regular bats. 3. Disagree: injuries at our age take a long time to heal, so I want an extra plate at home. 4. I agree if you go back to the regular bats. 5. I TOTALLY agree on the snowbird issue. NEXT: TNG go forward & do not worry about talking about Closed minded, cause as you can see, I have responded to your post & so have others. Tater50 |
| Sept. 27, 2007 Enviro-Vac Men's 65 489 posts | I see that the National Senior Softball Forum do a lot of polls regarding senior softball http://www.nationalseniorsoftballforum.com/ Perhpas someone could talk to them or SSUSA about doing a poll on this subject. The subject in this thread is interesting enough. |
| Sept. 27, 2007 AlleninGa Men's 60 113 posts | Good Points TNG 1) I don't like the mat. Heck, it took me over 50 years to get used to the "real strike zone". Now they took it away from me. 2) I would have no problem with banning them except for the fact that I just purchased my first. Using ASA bats would work for me. 3) I like the two plates, although there are times when I wish the catcher had to tag me out. At first base,most of the injuries seemed to have been collisions caused by the runner going inside the bag or the fielder having to reach in toward the base path. At home, it seems the most prone to injury would be the catcher if the runner decided not to slide. At these two bases the fielder seems to be more at risk of injury if the runner does not slide(for whatever reason). The double bases cuts down the odds of collision. I believe at 2nd & 3rd, runner collisions seldom happen except when intentional(taking out the 2nd baseman). The slide benefits the runner and thus puts only himself at risk of injury. 4) I agree with Tater. 5) I 'm not familiar enough with the rule. 6) Just to add one, I hate the 1/1 count especialy with the mat. |
| Sept. 27, 2007 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | Desert Guy..........You play 60's but sound like you are new to senior softball. The U2 is legal, is the best, and my choice when playing in a tournament that allows them. You mention the durability issue. That is the reason that I have a few of these bats. If one breaks, I have a back-up. Actually, I have many back-ups. You would be surprised at how many "ego" (your word, not mine) bats are owned by seniors. There is but small minority writing on this board about the choice of bats. You, Gary, and? Not many really. I like to swing the best allowed |
| Sept. 28, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | i do too. But I don't insist on it like many do, and I don't feel any particular accompllishment when I get a "Miken hit". Interesting how few comments there have been in this thread compared to when certain guys just want to name-call and attack. Now I wonder who cannot have intelligent dialogue. Actually, I don't wonder at all. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 tattooball 774 posts | TNG, I think that guys will enter into the thread without any taunting. Remeber you were not the favorite guy on the board in recent months. If you continue to post thoughts like these I think it will be all a thing of the past. I too have had problem posts with you, but you seem to understand that badgering people is not the way to get them to respond in a positive fashion. I have left it behind and hopefully others will too. Real issues are fun to debate. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Yea, but if I had instead made a post about "einsteins" issues they would have been all over this by now. i am just not sure they are really interested in bettering the Senior game but would rather just keep their status quo. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 Bob50 Men's 60 242 posts | 1. Keep the mat. It may not be an exact strike zone but it removes some of the subjectiveness or errors in judgement by umpires. Just think about how many teams complain only about the height of a pitch. 2. I think it would be okay to get rid of hot bats but don't go to wood bats. The rpoblem here would be that you may then be at the mercy of ASA who may determine that a certain new bat is illegal two minutes after you buy one. 3. Leave the bases alone. The rule is fine as it exists. 4. Get rid of the 5 run rule only if you get rid of the hot bats. 5. Get rid of snowbirds if it can be replaced with a 1 or 2 player exception rule. Gary, stay calm. You will get responses. Remember a lot of players are in Vegas now. You have started something constructive here. Keep it that way and you will gradually earn the respect of senior players. Stop walking around the dead horse wondering where you can kick it again. Bob Schulz Travelodge 55's |
| Sept. 28, 2007 Tater50 Men's 60 336 posts | TNG: "Yea, but if I had instead made a post about "einsteins" issues they would have been all over this by now." To me this is going in reverse: stay with your original script. I for one am glad the direction this is taking. There is a difference between "discussions" & arguing & bickering. I can lose a discussion with my wife & only come out with a bruised ego; but if I bicker & argue with her, not only will I lose, but I will have to pay big money for a gift to get back into her graces. TNG: going in the right direction Tater50 |
| Sept. 28, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Bob, that probably is the biggest problem with ASA. I think their bats are plenty hot enough, but they do have a tendency to ban a bat out of nowhere after guys have bought it thinking it is legal. Tater, will I have to buy "einstein" a gift? lol |
| Sept. 28, 2007 Tater50 Men's 60 336 posts | TNG: keep going in this great direction. As far as ASA: we play ASA league & guys DO not hit the ball very far; we have a great game with good defense. I liked the NSA tourney that we went to in ALA; great turnout, balls were 44/525, regular bats, with the exception of a few Combat Senior (confusion on the bat approval list); but all in all, similiar to the way softball was before the hotter bats. I never liked the plate being a strike & cannot find the origin for such a rule, but maybe, time will give us that answer. Tater50 John |
| Sept. 28, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | It just makes for a huge strike zone, much bigger than anyone should need. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 Tater50 Men's 60 336 posts | TNG: I have watched finesse pitchers that are bound by the plate/mat rule. Although, I as a batter would rather hit a regular pitch; I have an admiration for guys who can curve, knuckle or whatever with the ball. Tater50 John |
| Sept. 28, 2007 DesertGuy Men's 60 224 posts | salio2k- Did't mean to offend in any way. My comment about bats should be looked at in the context of the 'hot bat' issue as a whole. "ego" was a poor way to state it, but not fundamentally wrong. I am not new to senior softball, but I would sure love to be 51 again instead of 10 years past that! I have no objection to any player using the best equipment out there, and one is at a disadvantage if they don't. I just happen to think the technology of the hot bats has gone way beyond what is needed for a good old fashioned game of softball. Sort of like taking a .50 caliber machine gun on a rabbit hunt! |
| Sept. 28, 2007 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | DesertGuy.......No offence taken. I was just pointing out that senior softball cannot come out and say that “senior bats are prohibited”. You have a lot of seniors that purchased these bats because they are legal and the best. A lot of retirees with little or no income are included in the mix. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Sure they can still be banned. Anytime you buy a bat you accept the possibility that it could be banned. That is just how things seem to go these days. Retirees with little or no money spending it on bats???? Wow! Actually, if they are in this situation they might very well not have health insurance either, so making them play with safer bats might actually be doing them a favor. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | Actually, if they haven't the money for bats and health insurance they might wish to avoid playing altogether. There are more important elements in life than senior softball... such as making certain that their family is secure. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | wood, I agree with you 1000%, but for the sake of not wanting to be accused of being too mean and negative I did not want to say that myself. But yea, you are completely correct. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | I saw a senior ball player collecting cans from the trash. He told me that he needed a new bat. His wife wouldn't give him the money. I told him to get an ASA bat because Gary 19 was trying to rid softball of the evil 1.20 bpf bats. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 DesertGuy Men's 60 224 posts | That was a bit of a cheap shot sal, but maybe Gary will let it slide. I'm pretty sure most players playing the senior game make the right decisions as to how they spend their money. I haven't gone the recycling route yet to buy a bat, but I have experienced the approach his wife took! There's a price to pay for having the best equipment that's out therre. And that's true of all sports. I played golf last week with a guy that had about 18 clubs in his bag. Three were top dollar drivers, along with an assortment of fancy metal woods of other numbers. It struck me that too many of us rely on the technology to compensate for our diminishing physical skills. It makes us feel good, but at the same time I feel a bit guilty about that. It really was easier in the old days to tell how I measured up against the competition, in softball and golf, without having to sneak a peek into the equipment bags. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | DG, I am trying to do better at ignoring the fools. :) Not to mention that who cares if we could only use ASA bats, as long as the rules are the same for both teams. I play for the competition, not for a home run derby with rocket launchers. I just wish guys could understand that when they are hitting balls further in their 50s and 60s than they were in their 20s and 30s it probably isn't their strength and abilities that have improved that dramatically. It is what makes the comparisons between Woods and Nicklaus impossible. Or between Federer and Laver. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | TNG, 1. About the pitchers, pitch, umpire and the calls and the mat. Maybe having the height call go something like this: A 5’2” pitcher or a 6’5”, shorter, taller, what ever, throws a pitch, if the ball goes over the PITCHERS head it’s legal, & that’s the lower limit. And forget about the height. This might get rid of some call complaints form both sides. As a separate issue, being the mat, about the only way to do away with it as I see it, would be to use the modified zone. Make the strike zone is that part of the area over, on or behind home plate, that is lower than the top of the batters back shoulder, and higher than the bottom of the front knee. This might alleviate calls on the sides of the plate\mat. Different than ISA, but may do away with the mat some questionable calls and speed the game. Personally I like the mat but that calls very too much on height (either high or low) matters. They make a combo home plate\mat, that is made of a plastic or ceramic that make a clear sound when it’s hit, unless hit on the beveled edge, but even then it usually goes to the side which is quite obvious that it was struck.. But do we really want to start changing rules again? There are too many variations between the different assns as it is now. 2. Keep the bats as they are. If you want to swing a 38oz, like there are many around where you can read the 1.20 BPF, or a wooded softball bat, do it. I had a 28oz made for me to use , but it was too heave to be comfortable. Let other players use what they will as long as it’s legal at that time & place. As for non legal bats, ck the forums out there, & on ebay. Almost anything is available if you take the time to look. Actual bat checking at a tournament, I haven’t seen used yet. But then it takes a knowledge to spot the out side discrepancies, but the inner ones would take an ultra sound type device. Altering will go on not much can be done, go by some tournament and look around if you know what to look for. 3. The line is fine at 2nd cause you never know where the ball or either player is going to go when it’s thrown. The runner is suppose to be listening for the coach & watching the for the base and not the ball that’s what the coach is for. Hardly happens though. 4. 5 run’s are fine with me, but I also like the one up rule, over an out. 5. no opinion Which bat(s) do you have in you bag, or use? |
| Sept. 28, 2007 Airbosn Men's 70 329 posts | Fellow Softballer; I just like to play with what I consider the best equipment for me. Playing billards, throwing darts, hitting a softball, etc. However, if tomorrow all the associations mandated wooden bats I would buy the best wooden bat and play. Why you ask? Cuz I love to play the game even against the same teams. 1. Keep the mat...I used a mat before the associations did...It kinda helps the pitcher and umpire. 2. Keep the best bats available. Let the individual decide on what bat to swing. 3. I agree with TNG, only first base should be a safety base...Really never understood the home plate being moved...We have rules inplace about sliding/avoid/block...so why move home plate. During the course of a game there are very few plays at the plate. 4. I don't like the 5 run rule in championship play...OK for pool but not championship. 5. Play where you vote for championship play is doable...I live in Florida and I don't like the snowbird rule. TNG, I agree, we will all move forward and have some great softball discussions. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | DG............it wasn't s cheap shot.....I forgot to put in the :). He really does collect cans for his toys. |
| Sept. 28, 2007 lefty65 Men's 65 1 posts | I've been following these discussions for some time and I seldom do more than read what you guys post but I just felt like adding my two cents for what it's worth coming from a catcher with a really bad shoulder.LOL The mat is fine but I could be happier if the plate wasn't a strike. As far as the bats go, I'll use whatever is declared legal and I won't put myself at a disadvantage. Luckily, my wife let's me buy whatever I want!! I am a firm believer in keeping the separate home plate becuse it allows me to play a game I love without fear of a life-threatening injury by some gung-ho senior who thinks he's still 20!! Five run rule is fine for level and below(AAA) and I don't want to even venture to say what's ok for those above. It helps us compete with the stronger teams and makes the tournaments more fun. Don't have an opinion on the snowbirds except that I don't see a significant impact. Sorry if I got too longwinded. Looking forward to seeing some of you in Vegas. Ken Morrow #5 High Desert Roadrunners 65AAA |
| Sept. 28, 2007 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Championship game, ONLY. Let the HR's go amuk, in all divisions. might make it very interesting. |
| Sept. 29, 2007 tattooball 774 posts | SORRY GUYS MY CAP'S LOCK IS BROKEN. I THINK NO MATTER WHAT THE RUNS PER INNING RULE IS IT SHOULD BE UNLIMITED HOME RUNS. WHO CARE HOW YOU SCORE YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO SCORE A CERTAIN AMOUNT PER INNING. IT WOULD PROBABLY SPEED MOST GAMES UP. HOW LONG WOULD A INNING LAST IF 5 GUYS HIT FIVE HR BACK TO BACK. |
| Oct. 1, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | lefty, can't that same gung-ho senior take out an infielder at second or third? And if the catcher is standing where he belongs he should NEVER get run over. trumpball, you make great sense. 5 runs is 5 runs. Seperate rules for the pool games and the championship games is bizarre to me. The game is the game. taits, absolutely swing what is legal, but the guys who always want the latest and greatest should NEVER whine about pitcher safety. Or brag about a home run. |
| Oct. 1, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Bump. Anyone want to constructively talk Senior softball? |
| Oct. 1, 2007 tattooball 774 posts | No that my keyboard is fixed. 1 The mat, I don't like it but I have seen many umpires in senior softball I like less. 2 senior bats, I am not in favor of the bats, if they could keep the cheating out and use u-trip bats that would be fine by me. However when I am able to play, if they are still legal I will be swinging one. The bases I have no problem with at all. Bones are alot more fragile as you get older and it does stop many collisions. As for the run rules, classification is diffacult to keep honest so the run rule was put in to stop teams from getting killed and lose interest in the sport. I do feel that if you are going to limit the amount of runs you can score per inning it should be unlimited home runs. This would also lessen the amount of balls going back at a pitcher. I also think that if you only scored some of the runs in an inning it should be progressive and you could score them in another inning if you got on a roll. Snow bird rule should be eliminated in favor of a 1 or 2 player exemption, but the exempt players would have to have some kind of geographical boundries. |
| Oct. 1, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | trump, all of us have been playing for many, many years. Do you really find the umps today to be that much worse than they have been all of our lives? Is that the real reason we as batters have willingly given up so much with the mat, because the umps are that bad? I just don't see it. Do you really think there are more collisions at home than second or third. That is my only question, why was just home picked? I would feel much better as a catcher with a runner coming in from in front of me than as a second baseman with the runner coming in from behind. I just don't like the idea of defense being almost completely devalued. |
| Oct. 1, 2007 tattooball 774 posts | Yes I think there are much more at home than other bases. it seems as though players are willing to give up second or third but always try to throw a guy out at home if it would be close. Hell I've seen guys give up second all day to runners just to make one play at home, that just doesn't make sense. |
| Oct. 1, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Could be, but there already are rules to protect catchers at home. If there is no play at the plate, then the catcher has to be out of the runner's way. If he isn't, that is his fault. If there is a play, the runner has to slide or give up. I still play with the kids, and I never see collisions at home. |
| Oct. 1, 2007 Jawood Men's 50 943 posts | 1. 1 and 1 count. 2. 1 and 1 count. 3. 1 and 1 count. 4. 1 and 1 count. 5. 1 and 1 count. |
| Oct. 2, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Jawood, I hope you aren't advocating this. What is the hurry? |
| Oct. 2, 2007 Jawood Men's 50 943 posts | The 1 and 1 count speeds up the game. Why does the defense need to stand out in the field when 80% of the hitters take the first two pitches. Get in the batter's box and hit the ball! |
| Oct. 2, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Like I asked, what is the hurry? |
| Oct. 3, 2007 Jawood Men's 50 943 posts | To get the tournament moving along so when Sunday comes, teams can actually make it to the airport to catch their flight. |
| Oct. 4, 2007 hitt2 353 posts | Your best effort to date TNG/G19 Well down. Now this is Adult behavior working for the betterment of the game. |
| Oct. 4, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Gee thanks, I think. |
| Oct. 4, 2007 hitt2 353 posts | Don’t be sarcastic you don't have a lot of credibility with me. but you could build some if you directed your comment like this all the time. |
| Oct. 4, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | Now you can understand how I view "einstein". HIs biggest contribution is periodically coming on to advocate platooning. |
| Oct. 4, 2007 hitt2 353 posts | You're" being a Jerk again" I've read the threads and everyone is entitled to their point of view right or wrong. However I think as an outsider looking in. You prompted the responses you get from him. If you looked at things from a more open perspective you might agree with some of the things he says and he might do so likewise on your behalf. |
| Oct. 4, 2007 southpaw Men's 70 1077 posts | Gentlemen: this discussion has been of utmost interest. I rarely comment, but I do read here as often as possible. I am from Birmingham, Al., and I do sincerely enjoy hearing perspectives from different parts of our great nation, especially if they are legitimate attempts to broaden others perspective and enjoyment of our great sport. That being said, after rambling so, I would like to add " my 2 cents worth" if I may. Only on one point though: pitching. I have pitched in softball for 33 years, leagues mostly, until 10 years ago; Seniors softball for the last 3 years. I understand the necessity of the mat for umpire assistance, but even then it is not a sure thing. In every tourney this year, I have seen many games where the ball strkes the edge of the plate and still called a ball, and also the reverse. Ball hits in front of plate, short, called strike. In Boaz, a 4 inch slice was off the back corner of a mat, and the umpire would not call a strke when the ball obviously hit the spot.--My point: I would rather not have the mat, because the umpire is an integral part of the game. My other little pet peeve is that I cannot throw a straight pitch, everything is curves and knuckle balls--angles across the strike zone. My struggle is in having to take some spin off my pitches in order to hit that blasted mat. I play league ball 2-3 nights a week, mostly against youngsters, and have struck out a number of batters-33 this year. I have struck out 2 in seniors over the last two years. The mat makes a difference--for me a negative one. Take away the plate and the mat is my lament. |
| Oct. 4, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | southpaw, your movement on the pitch can be a huge advantatge with the mat. Assuming you can control the movement, you can curl the ball completely around the actual plate and come in on the back of the mat and hit an edge of it. Would be a ball in real softball, but with the silly mat you should get the call. Now you are really tieing up batters by the ball being in on them when it passes them, but catches the edge of the mat in the back. Or, maybe better yet. have the pitch be well off the outside corner of the plate yet can break in and hit the back outside edge of the silly mat. Will be difficult for the batter to reach when it is passing the plate, yet you can get the call again. Try it. Good luck. |
| Oct. 4, 2007 southpaw Men's 70 1077 posts | TNG, yeah, I agree with all your suggestions. It is probably more mental with me than anything--concentrating on hitting that blasted mat. But, also, it is just the nature of my pitches. 90% of the time I play in leagues (USSSA), and we use .47 core balls. Usually more lively than the .44 cor. necessary to adjust spin there, then. Also, left-handed, everything breaks, even underhanded! Knuckle balls break left to right, curves break right to left, and never the same amount two times in a row.--A blessing and a curse. And to the credit of Senior hitter: more experience, much more patient, and more talent than many of the young guys. Plus, we play 1 and 1 count, and that makes the young whipper-snappers go after a lot of bad pitches. One last thing. Correct me if I am wrong. I am of the persuasion that by allowing the plate to be a strike, that many of the short pitches aimed at the front of the plate are usually a little lower in trajectory and that is where quite a few of the middle hits at the pitcher occur. I just believe that an active umpire, involved in all aspects of the game is an integral aspect of the sport. I still would omit the mat and the plate if at all possible. Until then, I will just keep slinging the old ball and hope for a strike from time to time. Thanks |
| Oct. 5, 2007 TheNextGeneration Men's 50 307 posts | I absolutely agree with your comment about an "active umpire". They are part of the game, always have been. The guys who complain about the bad calls they make, and how allegedly the mat removes this, probably won't admit that they benefit from as many "bad" calls as they are hurt by. They also might not admit that they probably make more bad plays than the ump makes bad calls. |
