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Discussion: What Would You Change - Other Items

Posted Discussion
Jan. 10, 2008
Sisavic
135 posts
What Would You Change - Other Items
Other Items. These Are Smaller Issues Worth Considering Listed in Priority Order.

Windy Conditions: Permit Tournament Directors to go to a “strike-only” format when it’s too windy to consistently throw good pitches.

Platooning: Permit 1 or 2 non-line-up players to play defense only as needed. As a manager, I like this one. It allows me to bring a couple of extra players and guarantee them some playing time, while keeping them available to replace injured players.

Change “Runs Against” Seeding in Round Robins: The current seeding rule uses “Runs Against” for tie breakers. Making the following should eliminate the advantage of batting first in seeding games: don’t count runs scored in the top of the last inning as Runs Against for the home team if home team did not bat in that inning, and don’t count more than 5 runs in the top of the last inning as Runs Against for the visitors if the home team loses the game by more than 5 runs.

Rings: Award rings in only the biggest tournaments. Too many rings cheapen the award and make them less valuable.

Home Runs: Revise home rule rules for all divisions to include unlimited homers for M+, additional homers for other divisions, and no automatic outs for over-the-fence (make singles).

45+ Division: Add a 45+ Division because the difference between early 40s and late 40s is too big.

Night Games: No night games at national and regional tournaments for 55 and over teams.

Mike Sisavic
fsisavic@hotmail.com
Jan. 10, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4345 posts
1. I like the wind idea, haven't seen the SSUSA rule used yet.
2.Platooning good, burt what keeps ya from faking an injury to allow them to hit as well.
3. ok
4. Makes sense.
5. Here we go with a time thing. Leave it as it. It's bad enough as it is that most AA players don't hit a lot of HR's and yet the team is limited to 1 a game. Most of these teams only have one or maybe two that can hit one. If there are more that go over (select a number here) from that team, move them up and let them bang em out.
6. Their not seniors.
7. ok

My .02, again.
Jan. 10, 2008
audieh
Men's 60
241 posts
Mike, thanks for asking for player response. I wish more representatives would do the same. All of us seniors have limited viewpoints as none of us play in every division or every association. Therefore, something that may be a major concern for me may not have any relevance for another. However, here are several items I would be happy to see addressed by senior softball associations based on their priorty to me.

1) Uniform rules from all Summit members. Seems immature to me to have association differ on such things as pitch height, bordering state rules, type of bats, etc. etc. If you are a member of the Summit then part of that should be operating under the same rules. It would make senior softball more consistent for the players.

2) Have one universal identification card for all associations. The cost maybe more but then the Summit members could split the fees according to participation in their events.

3) I would like to see only 2 round robin games and then start the tournament. Play 2 Friday morning and one tournament game on Friday afternoon if you must but please have the championship game on Sunday morning and not Sunday afternoon. Any game that starts after noon on Sunday results in east coast teams having to fly out on Monday rather than Sunday. We do not mind getting into town on Thursday night but do not force us to miss work and other obligations on Monday as well.

4) In round robin games a 60 minute time limit and 75 for tournament games with unlimited in the championship game.

5) A bigger mat and a 1 and 1 count. These changes would benefit the pitchers, speed the game and make the game more exciting. Ten of the 12 players on my team will not swing at the first pitch on a full count no matter how great the pitch is. This is a total waste of time and since this is slow pitch and underhand to boot, I certainly do not need 7 pitches to take the pitcher deep! ;)

6) For major plus categories only I would have unlimited home runs, unlimited runs per inning, and open borders. For lesser categories I would keep most of the restrictions in place. However, never, I repeat, never should a home run hit after the allowance be an out. Make them a single and quit penalizing a big hitter that choses to play on a lower level.

Mike, thanks for your effcrts in listening to some of the various feedback. We all will not agree on ever item but some thing seem to be just plan common sense and would benefit seniors as a whole.
Jan. 10, 2008
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2634 posts
Audie, I hope you are counting me as one of the two on your team that will hit the first pitch. I don't have a problem hitting the first pitch.
Mike,
1, Do you mean no walks? 2, Platooning, no 3, runs against, agree 4, Rings, agree 5, Hr's, I don't think AA should get any hrs. Just my opinion. 6, 45's agree 7, Night games, I like playing nights.

Is there someone from the Southeast on the Summit?
Jan. 10, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Bruce go the left and hit the Team ratings and summit and you will see a section on advisory members, it does a pretty good job of identifying the 2007 members. Maybe you will know somebody from that list.
Jan. 11, 2008
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
Bruce, you have always told me to swing at the FRIST strike, 1st pitch or 5th pitch.
1: wind, don't know, the wind make a good pitcher worth his salt.
2: Platooning, please, NO NO
3: Runs for/against, sounds fairer to me
4: Rings, like the next guy it's great to win a ring, I have won rings with 23 teams in our bracket, 2 teams in our bracket and one while only playing 1 game because of being hurt. All the rings look the same but only one feels like I really won something.
5: HR rules, limits are OK, but anything over the limit should be singles. That would take away some of the head hunting of the pitcher.
6: Night Games; I usually don't have a problem with a good lighted field but last year at Phoenix was a night game from HELL, both teams had a big problem, we were lucky nobody get hurt. Our pitcher had one go by his head and never saw it. The only person that saw it was our catcher.
Bruce, Audie, See you in a few weeks.
Jan. 11, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Mike,
You're right about Platooning.
Platooning for sure would benefit
every tournament, every team and every
association at every level of SS.
And it would be optional
so as not to change the chemistry of
any traditional team (no brainer)
1-1 count
bigger mat
unlimited home run major plus
no 5 run rule major plus
no geographic restriction major plus
sliding into home or across line OK
And thanks for any/all your work,
consideration and efforts for SS
Jan. 12, 2008
Jawood
Men's 50
791 posts
Good post by Sisavic. Agree with most. Should be runs for in RR games, since when are we playing defense? Really agree with the ring deal, it's a joke!
Jan. 13, 2008
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
over-the-limit home-runs should be outs, if not inning-enders... negative consequences are necessary to discourage the long-ballers from sand-bagging.... if you are a consistent home-run hitter, then play in the appropriate divisions for your ego-massage.
Jan. 13, 2008
pete88
Men's 50
46 posts
Yo #19,
I think your reply on sandbaggers and egotists, may apply to a few but not the majority. Many of us are on teams with 1 or 2 homerun hitters. That is the general consensus. To me, that makes the majority of aa teams comparable with each other concerning the home run hitters. So what can it hurt to let us hit a few more. The rule is the same for both teams.. It's not an ego thing or a sandbagging issue. A lot of times when a guy just tries to hit it hard, it goes out. Those of us in aa may not be adept enought to keep the ball down at will. It seems a shame to be punished for hitting it hard. Even though it may seem correct to move up to aaa, for some of us it's not that easy. Some of us live hundreds of miles from major cities, where having access to other teams is possible. It took me 3 months of posting messages to get on a team. Plus, maybe we like the teams we play for and don't want to take the chance of getting on a team full of undesirables. I believe a vast majority of us in aa, just not the bangers, would like to see that second homer be a single or have some type of a 1 up rule. I do appreciate your views as we are all entitled to our own opinion. Good luck in your upcoming season.
Pete
Scrap Iron 50's
Jan. 13, 2008
Dale
Men's 50
76 posts
It seems to me that all the 'hot button' discussion about boundaries, player/team reclassification, HR limits could be solved by simply allowing teams to classify themselves.

Hold each classification to the following:

AA- 0 or 1 homerun, then an out
AAA- 2 or 3 homeruns, then an out
Major - 5-7 homeruns, then an out
Major+ - unlimited
These are maximum or minimums for each division, Determined by the Summit or maybe each individual Tournament Director.

Allow Major+ and maybe even Major teams to recuit nationwide.

I truly believe that if HR limits were capped, and exceeding that limit resulted in an out, then there would be fewer teams playing out of their division (sandbagging, as you call it).

Teams and players could play where they felt they could compete and not be made to 'move up' in classification simply by winning a tournament.

It seems from the majority of posts on this board that players and especially pitchers don't think that hitting the middle needs to be addressed. I say this because that always seems to be the first 'knee jerk' to any post calling for an out after reaching the HR limit.

It seems simple enough, but no Senior Association wants to take this stand. It would seem to take a lot of the current guesswork out of the Summits hands (i.e., rating players and teams).

Adhere to the ASA bat list and let the big boys 'duke it out' with their altered bats.....
Stay with 1-1 count.....
Limit courtesy runners to 2/inning and only allow them for the runners before the 1st pitch is thrown to the next batter...
Give T-shirts for All-T teams. Bag the rings.......
99% of you guys (and gals) would play this game for donuts(or bagels) and pay your own way just to continue playing a game we love with guys that are our best friends.

We all like a little recognition for our efforts. Have your name announced at the tournament site. The Senior Softball News is good about giving recognition to All-T's.
Blow up the article and post it on your website.

I know I'm sounding a little facetious now, but we guys are Senior Citizens. We've had our time in the sun. Play for the fun of it. But, play to win.....
I LOVE THIS GAME!!!!!
Jan. 13, 2008
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
no Pete... no punishment for hitting it hard... only punishment for playing in the wrong division... if you hit it hard and it just happens to go out once or twice a year, no big deal... but if it just happens to go out once or twice a game, then play aaa... outs are a deterrent, singles are not... i appreciate your point of view... thanks
Jan. 14, 2008
southpaw
Men's 60
733 posts
Hey guys, for me, homeruns are an integral part of the game, but not a be all/end all. Every team has 1 to 3 legitimate homerun hitters--maybe not consistent, but capable. That is true , even of AA teams.

I have conducted leagues and tourneys for the past 20 years, primarily with younger teams. But it always seemed to me that allowing a fair number of homeruns kept the majority happy. I have always allowed 4 homeruns, 1 single, then outs. The big bashers got their limit, but not unlimited. Those who did not knew that at least they could get a few in. It seemed to me to be a good psychological thing.

I personally do not think that homerun hitters should always be penalized, but there should be a cut-off.

AA---2 and singles
AAA--3 and singles
Major--4 and singles
Major+--5 and singles

I, personally, have not hit a homerun in 10 years! So, it is not about me. And I will still play regardless of the rules; just love to play softball. Thanks and God bless
Jan. 14, 2008
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
I'M WITH YOU 19....WE PLAY BECAUSE WE CAN AND WE ENJOY IT GREATLY!!!!......LETS JUST COME UP WITH RULES WE CAN ALL GET ALONG WITH!!!!! RULES THAT MAKE THE GAME FUN AND YET FAIR TO ALL........RATING TEAMS IS ONE OF THE HARDEST THING WE CAN DO....AS WE ALL WANT TO BE COMPETITIVE BUT STILL NOT SINGLED OUT FOR HAVING A GREAT TOURNAMENT ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR(PLAYING OVER OUR HEADS)THAT MAKES US MOVE UP INTO ANOTHER CATEGORY THAT WE ARE NOT COMPETIVE IN........I CAN IDENTIFY WITH THIS AS OUR TEAM WAS MOVED UP VERY LATE IN THE YEAR TO AAA AND JOURNEYED TO PHX AND WAS SMOKED IN NEARLY EVERY GAME WE PLAYED.........THEN APPEALED AND WAS MOVED TO AA FOR VEGAS AND YES WE WON THERE BUT OUR LAST THREE GAMES INCLUDING THE IF GAME WERE WON BY ONE RUN EACH GAME....I DON'T CONSIDER THAT DOMINANT ENOUGH TO MOVE UP TO AAA AGAIN...BUT AS THE RULES ARE WRITTEN AT PRESENT WE WILL BE MOVED UP AND AGAIN WILL PROBABLY NOT BE VERY COMPETITIVE IN AAA.....THIS IS PART OF THE REASON THE ORGANIZATIONS LOSE TEAMS FOR THEIR TOURNAMENTS ....AFTER ALL WE DO SPEND QUITE ALOT OF MONEY GOING TO SOME OF THESE TOURNAMENTS...WHEN ALL WE REALY CARE ABOUT IS GOING AND BEING COMPETITIVE.....TRUE??????
Jan. 14, 2008
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2634 posts
Doker, maybe the teams the smoked you in Phoenix should be playing Major!!!!
ps don't yell, we can hear you.
Jan. 14, 2008
GeHall44
Men's 55
92 posts
Hi Sisavic,
1 - No. I love to watch pitchers try to throw strikes in the wind. Same conditions for both tteams gives the advantage to the better pitcher.
2 - No on platooning because I would never getr to play defense again. : )
3 - Agree.
4 - Agree with one ring Championship per year for each Org, plus TOC. AND, please don't make the winners pay for the rings. It doesn't seem the same when you have to write a check for "winning" a ring. I think only LVSSA gives them away currently.
5 - Sandbagging seems to be the biggest issue I hear about in Major, AAA and AA. I would advise no home runs in AA, 1 in AAA, with equalizer, 5 in Major with equalizer, unlimited in Major Plus and FOUL BALL for over the limit HR's which could be outs if third strike with no fouls left. I know I would not want to play in any division where I could make an out hitting an HR.
6 - Yes on the 45 division.
7 - Night games are OK if lighting is good and they help finish the tourney earlier on Sunday.
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