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Discussion: Substitution / Courtesty Runner

Posted Discussion
March 17, 2008
Senior Moments
Men's 60
56 posts
Substitution / Courtesty Runner
Situation;

Smith (substitute) pinch hits for Jones. Smith is now in the game and scores. 3 batters later, Jones is used as a courtesty runner for Adams. How can Smith and Jones be in the lineup at the same time? Smith was still in the game, he was just not on base. Can Jones re-enter at anytime?


Prostest was made but disallowed. My understanding as per SPA rule book, Sec.2, page 26, is that both players cannot be in the game at the same time.

When does a sub become and player and when can the player re-enter?


All you rules guys, please assist.
Shelby
March 17, 2008
conman44
13 posts
My understanding is that anyone on your roster can pinch run once per inning,
March 17, 2008
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
the way I read that rule you got a raw deal.

Rule Sec 4 (b) 3. Says that a player is in the game when he becomes a substitute runner so in that case both players were in the game at the same time which is an infraction and should have been ejected from game.
March 17, 2008
BossBandit
Men's 50
55 posts
You have to keep in mind that a courtesy runner is not a substitute. A courtesy runner is for lack of a better term, an imaginary runner. A courtesy runner does not replace the person that he runs for on the lineup card. A pinchrunner is actually a substitution in the lineup and takes the place of the person he is running for in the batting lineup. You have to keep the two concepts separate in your mind.

Another way of saying it is to say that anyone listed on your scorecard can be a courtesy runner once per inning. A player who has not played in the game except as a courtesy runner can be substituted as a pinch runner one time during the game.

To answer your question, a sub becomes a player in the game when he replaces a starter or player and takes that player's place in the batting order. When Jones runs for Adams as a courtesy runner he is not actually re-entering the game. Additionally, you can only re-enter in the same place in the batting order that you were in originally.. Re-entry depends upon the association that you are playing in as to whether it is allowed. Some only allow re-entry by a starter.

Hope I didn't stir up the mud too much, Shelby...

Boss Bandit
March 17, 2008
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Remember he is talking about SPA

Sed 4 - A Player will be officially in the game:

B. Substitute Players will be considered in game as follows:

3. If a runner when he/she replace a player on base.
March 17, 2008
Dbax
Men's 60
1223 posts
BoosBandit is right. A courtesy runner is not a substitute.
March 17, 2008
VegasPaul
Men's 60
30 posts
BossBandit is correct. Anyone on the roster can be a courtesy runner once per inning. Even though Jones was not "in the game" as he was substituted for by Smith, he can be a courtesy runner once per inning since he is "on the roster". Note if Jones got on base and was replaced by Smith as a courtesy runner, Jones could not be a courtesy runner later in the inning since SPA rule 8 b states "the original runner cannot reenter as a courtesy runner for another player in the same inning"

I understand SPA will be clarifying the penalty for an illegal courtesy runner as their rules do not state an OUT will be recorded for illegal courtesy runner such as running 2X in an inning.
March 18, 2008
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
JUST GOT THRU WITH A SPA TOURNEY THIS LAST WEEKEND...COURTESY RUNNER RULE IN SPA IS .......ANYONE ON ROSTER CAN BE A PINCH RUNNER ...ALL PINCH RUNNERS MUST ENTER AND TOUCH THE BASE BEFORE THE NEXT PITCH....ALSO A RUNNER MUST ADVANCE AT LEAST ONE BASE BEFORE A PINCH RUNNER CAN RUN FOR HIM IF HE WAS NOT RUN FOR INITIALLY!!!!....AND A PINCH RUNNER CAN ONLY BE A PINCH RUNNER ONCE AN INNING AND CANNOT BE A PINCH RUNNER IF HE IS PINCH RUN FOR...CONSEQUENCE IS AN OUT!!!
March 18, 2008
VegasPaul
Men's 60
30 posts
The SPA 2008 rule book is on the web. It does not have an out for a violation of the courtesy runner rule except for an out ONLY if you are on base as a courtesy runner when your time at bat is reached. Below is the exact SPA rule. I commented to the SPA UIC last year on this and he said there would be changes. Umpires should not invoke penalties that are not in the rules.

Sec 2 COURTESY RUNNER: Unlimited courtesy runners are allowed in all senior programs. A player may only be a courtesy runner once per inning. A courtesy runner may be any player on the roster, whether or not he/she is in the line up. A courtesy runner may only be replaced by another courtesy runner due to an injury or illness. The replaced courtesy runner will be removed from the game. The original runner cannot re-enter as a courtesy runner for another player in the same inning. Once a designated player or any roster player touch's a base, they are the courtesy runner for that player at that base. Removal of that courtesy run for any reason other than illness or injury is a violation of the illegal substitution rule. Courtesy runners are to be inserted into the game only during time-out and with verbal notification to the Home Plate Umpire. This must be done before the next legal or illegal pitch on the batter runner or batter runner must advance one (1) base before they are eligible. If a courtesy runner is on base when his/her time at bat occurs, an "OUT" is registered on the base and the courtesy must bat unless it is the third out of the inning.
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